D200 vs D70 - DPChallenge Forums

11/24/2005 04:48:38 PM · #1

Ok, I'm hearing many D70'ers talking about buying a D200 in December. I must say, I'm pretty tempted myself even though I just bought my D70 in April. I figure I could still sell my D70 for a large fraction of what I bought it for and jump on the D200. I wouldn't feel too bad as I think that with 10 000 pictures, the D70 already served its use to me (that's 10cents a picture!)

Anyway, now I need everyone's help to justify such a large expense. So I'm starting this thread hoping to stimulate a good discussion/comparison between both cameras. I'll start.

1) LCD: 2.5" (235 000 pixel) vs 1.8" (130 000)

This should prevent those pictures that come out blurry even though they looked SO good on the tiny LCD.

2) ISO: all the way down to 100 (vs only 200, which REALLY bothers me)

I still don't see why they don't offer ISO 50 as an option... but 100 is good enough for me. ISO 3200 on the other hand is of no interest to me.

3) MP 10 Megapixels! vs 6 MP

That's pretty good for digital cropping and enlargements with a 29% increase in linear resolution...

4) Speed 5 fps [up to 22 Raw] vs 3 fps [up to 12 JPEP, ie: much less RAW]
I've actually never used the 3fps on my D70... but you never know when it'll come in handy.

5) White Balance in Kelvin scale!

I actually stopped caring about White Balance once I started with RAW... but Kelvin is much nicer than those dinky like lightbulb and cloud pictures.

Now remains the discussion about Noise Profile and Image Quality... This I know nothing about yet, since the D200 hasn't come out yet. But if the extra 1000$ is to be spent, it'll be justified by these two factors.

Anything else which justifies the doubling in price?

11/24/2005 05:29:59 PM · #2

Nikon is slow as hell but when they do things they generally get it right.

"1) LCD: 2.5" (235 000 pixel) vs 1.8" (130 000)

This should prevent those pictures that come out blurry even though they looked SO good on the tiny LCD."

This was a big thing for me. Since I'm always in Manual mode my images can look great on the 1.8 screen and be a mess in reality. This feature will help me enormously.

I also do a lot of heavy post-prod cropping and I need those extra pixels badly. I used to crop in camera but now I like stepping back, taking wider angles to have and play within, after the fact. A bad habit that I'm trying to break btw.

I took some skate board and acrobat shots recently and might do some dance work for a friend so the 5fps will come in handy. I've missed a number of cool shots being slightly limited by thew 3fps.

I hope the Kelvin thang ain't too confusing if I'm in a rush but the layout of the camera looks better then anything else I've seen on the market, both ergonomically and intuitively.

I'll probably sell my D70 to a friend and I'm not sure what to ask for it. Prices should drop a bit on the new ones since the demand for the D200 will be high since it's not over $2000.

Message edited by author 2005-11-24 17:32:26.

11/24/2005 05:44:16 PM · #3

I have to agree.
Those 5 points are more than enought for me to make the switch.

However, there's really one thing that bothers me.
I won't be able to use the wireless remote controler ML-L3. This was REALLY handy and really cheap, like $20 or something. With the D200, you can use MC-30/36 which is really expensive ($170) and with a cord. That's really a pain in the neck you have to carry that cord remote controler. I think there's a wireless option but I think it's expensive as well.

blemt

Nikon D70

11/24/2005 05:57:48 PM · #4

I would switch in a heartbeat. Just ONE little thing. If I make the switch I can't get the 70-200 VR. :/

11/24/2005 06:28:32 PM · #5

Hey you forgot
6) 11 AF points More AF is just great especially when shooting with shallow DOF. Even better, if you're not confortable with the 11 points, you can make it 7 by merging the 3 points on each side into 1.
7) Better Viewfinder Not a D2X but well, it's big and bright according to the preview on www.dpreview.com
8) Metal body instead of plastic

11/24/2005 06:53:36 PM · #6

I almost forgot!

9) RGB Histogram

I would have killed for this while taking my InfraRed pictures in Puerto Rico

It's essential to know when how each channel exposes as the greens and blue usually only show up when the reds are mostly clipped.

Which brings me to my next question... Is the D200 going to take nice IR's like the D70? It better!

Message edited by author 2005-11-24 18:54:01.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

11/24/2005 07:10:41 PM · #7

Here is a link to image samples from the D200 (the link is from the nikonians D200 forum)

//it.nikkei.co.jp/pc/news/index.aspx?i=20051124dp000da&cp=2

//dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2005/11/25/2732.html

I can't read Japonese so I can't tell if the image were retouched or not but it seems really nice.

Message edited by author 2005-11-24 19:16:09.

rscorp

Nikon D70

11/24/2005 09:43:37 PM · #8

For those of you who have inquired or placed pre-orders, what's the delivery date or "in stores" date?

ralph

Nikon Z9

11/24/2005 11:30:04 PM · #9

Dec 15 is the trigger date (from what i hear)
probably +/- a day or two..
(plus a day fo shipping over night express ... )

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/24/2005 11:45:57 PM · #10

Originally posted by pawdrix:

1. The larger review screen will help, but it's not large enough to see really critical focus differences. You're still gonna have to zoom for that.

2. The preset white balances are still there; the kelvin is an addition to the options. 20D has it, it's great for when you want to skew color seriously, and of course invaluable for critical color work if you have a color temperature meter.

3. Unless money's a serious concern, keep the D70 for a backup body. You never know when you'll need it, and it's nice to be able to hang a WA around your neck while shooting with a long lens in fast-breaking situations.

You're gonna have a lot of fun with the new toy :-)

R.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/25/2005 11:38:58 AM · #11

10)Double Exposures in Camera is another one that's useful... main for DPC though.

kosmikkreeper

Nikon D300s

11/25/2005 11:47:51 AM · #12

I was sold on ISO100 and 11 focus points. Those 11 points will help a lot for my hummingbird shots!! :-)

11/25/2005 01:46:13 PM · #13

Originally posted by kosmikkreeper:

I was sold on ISO100 and 11 focus points. Those 11 points will help a lot for my hummingbird shots!! :-)

I had a long argument with a camera salesman who told me he believed that the 5 point focusing system was more than enough. I could tell you of a hundred instances where the extra 4 corners would have helped me out.

However their new 11 point system ( pictured on this page )still misses the corners where I need them. Looks like they just divided up the center more.

Message edited by author 2005-11-25 15:46:25.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/25/2005 03:54:58 PM · #14

I don't really get the hype about 11 area AF. I only use my 5 areas when my camera is on a tripod. Otherwise, I use the AE lock button to lock the exposure, then I focus on whatever I want, recrop and shoot. The whole thing takes about 2 seconds, as opposed to pulling away from your camera to change the AF area.

In what situations is it useful to have a lot of AF areas?

kosmikkreeper

Nikon D300s

11/25/2005 04:58:46 PM · #15

Originally posted by labuda:

The 1st that pops to mind is for macro work to get proper framing without having to move the camera especially with shallow DOF.

henry_buckle

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

11/25/2005 05:05:51 PM · #16

Originally posted by labuda:

How about when you dont have a tripod and/or much time to take the photo.

It depends how you like to shoot I guess

are you sure you have to pull away from the camera to change the AF points, The canons ive used you dont have to. (im not saying canons are better just suprised)

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

11/25/2005 05:09:42 PM · #17

Originally posted by labuda:

I usually don't put away my camera to set the AF point, I just use the pad (be sure that the lock button is not on).
I hate to use the AE lock button because, you have to go to the menu to decide whether to remember the Exposure only, focus only or both.
With many AF point, you can decide with the pad what area to focus and use the AE button just for exposure.
Or use Manual mode to be totally in control of the exposure
However, Steve is right, I'd really want those AF point to be more spaced, like on the D2X.

Message edited by author 2005-11-25 17:10:51.

Bear_Music

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/25/2005 05:10:42 PM · #18

Originally posted by henry_buckle:

Originally posted by labuda:
I don't really get the hype about 11 area AF. I only use my 5 areas when my camera is on a tripod. Otherwise, I use the AE lock button to lock the exposure, then I focus on whatever I want, recrop and shoot. The whole thing takes about 2 seconds, as opposed to pulling away from your camera to change the AF area.

In what situations is it useful to have a lot of AF areas?

How about when you dont have a tripod and/or much time to take the photo.

It depends how you like to shoot I guess

are you sure you have to pull away from the camera to change the AF points, The canons ive used you dont have to. (im not saying canons are better just suprised)

Right. If you "learn" the button location, which I have, you can punch the button and spin the dial with your eye glued to the viewfinder and watch the AF points change in the viewfinder.

You can also use special functions in the menu to assign the multi-controller to the AF points and it's live for that all the time, but I find the multi-controller awkward to use.

This is for 20D of course. I have no idea what the Nikon does in this area. But AF point switching is a breeze with the Canon.

Robt.

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

11/25/2005 05:17:10 PM · #19

Personally, with the small viewfinder on the D70 I can't manual focus for $h!t.

This image gave me a bit of a problem without that top right focus zone and was cropped heavily. I wanted the first two globes in sharp focus with a gradual blur from there on and I never really hit it the way I wanted. Unfortunately it doesn't look like my extra 6 zones with the D200 will solve that problem at all.

Message edited by author 2005-11-25 17:18:20.

henry_buckle

Canon EOS-20D

11/25/2005 05:21:59 PM · #20

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Personally, with the small viewfinder on the D70 I can't manual focus for $h!t.

This image gave me a bit of a problem without that top right focus zone and was cropped heavily. I wanted the first two globes in sharp focus with a gradual blur from there on and I never really hit it the way I wanted. Unfortunately it doesn't look like my extra 6 zones with the D200 will solve that problem at all.

You could use the autofocus on the subject (the first bulbs in this case), hit the Manual focus switch then re-compose your shot.

The reason there isnt much blur is the photo was shot at F/20

wavelength

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

11/25/2005 05:23:48 PM · #21

Originally posted by henry_buckle:

Originally posted by pawdrix:
Personally, with the small viewfinder on the D70 I can't manual focus for $h!t.

This image gave me a bit of a problem without that top right focus zone and was cropped heavily. I wanted the first two globes in sharp focus with a gradual blur from there on and I never really hit it the way I wanted. Unfortunately it doesn't look like my extra 6 zones with the D200 will solve that problem at all.

You could use the autofocus on the subject (the first bulbs in this case), hit the Manual focus switch then re-compose your shot.

The reason there isnt much blur is the photo was shot at F/20

shouldn't you just be able to choose a semi-wide aperture, and spot focus somewhere between the two globes? that contrast edge would have done I'd think.

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

11/25/2005 05:27:55 PM · #22

Henry-You are correct. I was primarily having trouble with this image because it was taken on a very windy day with a light, crappy tripod This was one of the 3 acceptable images captured out of 40, that I tried with various settings.

I should add that I was all over the place with this one but again, that top right focus zone would have given me....or yielded more takes to choose from.

Message edited by author 2005-11-25 17:30:57.

Bear_Music

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/25/2005 05:28:49 PM · #23

Henry has the right workaround; point the camera so the globe is centered, use center AF, switch lens to MF, recompose. Or, of course, set the cam for autofocus lock and single focus, center the globe, depress shutter halfway, recompose and shoot, if you're handheld. The MF trick works for a tripod shot where you want to do several bracketed exposures of the same shot.

R.