Critique Club members - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/07/2005 08:42:15 AM · #1

So the last few submissions I have been asking for a full indepth critique of my work.

Well 2 things have come from it.

1) I either got a three word comment like "Pretty nice stuff", or "Really crappy stuff".

2) I received no comments at all.

Whom ever you are in the critique clubs, I am still wondering if you have the time to critique not just my work, but all work?

I also wonder if you know how to critique on an indepth level?

This thread is not meant to stir the hornets nest, but rather, "where the hell is my indepth critique?

Thanks in advance.

notonline

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

11/07/2005 08:47:53 AM · #2

Have you ever recieved a comment from me and was it helpful??? If you answered yes to these then I would be happy to comment on your entries but I am not expert and I am as blunt as they come.

edit: holy crap swing, I just read your cc comment and hope you reported it. What kind of crap is that???

Message edited by author 2005-11-07 08:54:07.

KaDi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

11/07/2005 08:55:27 AM · #3

Well, I'm in the critique club and I do think I know how to critique an image.
You should know, however, that we do not select the images we critique--they are "assigned" by draw. No, we do not have time to critique all the photos--there are always a couple hundred or more waiting for critiques. If your photo is not drawn within the week after a challenge it goes into ether land--so if you don't receive a critique you've asked for with 7 days of the close of the challenge, and you still want one, you should post it in the forums for feedback.
We are also just volunteers--some of us with other things to do like work for a living.
By the way, it'd be nice if you'd excercise that little check box next to "photographer found this comment helpful". ;-)

notonline

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/07/2005 09:08:32 AM · #4

Swing, the person that comment on your photo has not entered a challenge and is fairly new to photography. IMO he should not be apart of the critique club. Why don't you join the critique club??? I thought about it but what the hell do I know about photography??? Hell, I couldn't even spell critique. :D

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

11/07/2005 09:46:11 AM · #5

I think this could be some backlash from the general call for more people to do critiques and the dangled carrot of a free membership.

CC=Free DPC Membership. There's still Time

Some time ago I was surprised to learn the way the critique club is structured. Somehow I thought it was comprised of members with substantial photography experience, some tenure on DPC, and perhaps a portfolio with a handful of ribbons. This isn't always the case as swinging_johnson has pointed out.

I've received a few critiques and most of them were good. Some better than others (bear_music comes to mind as a substantial point-by-point critiquer).

When I think of the word critique, I think of something substantial that breaks the image down into merits met (or not) based on general rules of photography. Perhaps the critique should include a set format that includes various points to cover, such as:

1) Composition
2) Creativity/Originality
3) Focus/DOF
4) Lighting/Exposure
5) Dramatic Effect/Tells a Story/Meets the Challenge (Pick one)

I realize critiques are done on a voluntary basis, and my hats off to you who have and take the time to do them. I just think they should be more substantial than a glorified comment.

JMHO. ;^)

Originally posted by notonline:

CEJ

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/07/2005 09:54:05 AM · #6

I have never asked for an in-depth critique, but I see most of the CC members start out their critique by saying they are from the critique club. I do that as well. If you want to review the critiques I've made, check them out on my profile page, comments made link. The last 25 or so comments are all critiques. If your pic does not get critiqued and it is past the 7 days, PM me the pic name and challenge, that is if you think I know how to critique a photo, and I will be glad to critique it for you. I recently received a long list from one user of past requested critiques that were never made and I told her that every few from the queue I do, I would work off her list, but that the queue comes first.

There are currently @200 or so in the queue. I don't know how many CC members there are, but I do know that it takes a lot more time than just leaving a comment if you want a good critique. I have gotten many responses thanking me for my critiques and their content. I take this to mean I am doing a fairly good job. It does bother me though that people ask for a critique, you give them one, and they do not check it as helpful.

Apple iPhone 5

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

11/07/2005 10:04:14 AM · #7

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I think this could be some backlash from the general call for more people to do critiques and the dangled carrot of a free membership.

I just read through some more of the CC critiques in question. And they are far from 'in-depth'....

I think you could be right - there could be certain people churning out low-quality critiques in the hope of free membership.

Alienyst, on the other hand; Amazing work with the volume and quality of critiques you've been producing!

RiderGal

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

11/07/2005 10:24:41 AM · #8

The free membership was not offered to quantity over quality... it has definitely been said that it will be given to someone who is putting out excellent critiques. I'm not sure who was given that... I had to stop, because of the extreme time commitment each critique took for me - as I am a senior at Cornell University, and really didn't have time for it, but I thought I'd share some of the comments I received back from those critiques...

Thank you for the critique on my picture... it means a lot to me...

thanks a lot for your comments. i am delighted that someone has taken so much pains to en 'light' en me.

Wow. Thanks so much for the critique! It's encouraging that at least one person saw and understood my thoughts behind the image. I appreciate your comments!

Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to critique my picture. It was a nice well-rounded critique; It helps me broaden my view. Really appreciate it. :)

I appreciate your critique of my picture, of all the responses I got, I value yours because of the time and sensitivity I felt as I read it.

We try to get through what we can... but a lot of people ask for critiques... please keep that in mind!

CEJ

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/07/2005 10:35:21 AM · #9

Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by glad2badad:
I think this could be some backlash from the general call for more people to do critiques and the dangled carrot of a free membership.

I just read through some more of the CC critiques in question. And they are far from 'in-depth'....

I think you could be right - there could be certain people churning out low-quality critiques in the hope of free membership.

Alienyst, on the other hand; Amazing work with the volume and quality of critiques you've been producing!

For the record - the free membership was not my incentive in joining the CC. In fact, I doubt I have a chance, but if I did win it, I would turn right around and have another contest of some sort and give the membership to someone who is not already a member. I just really enjoy giving critiques as opposed to just leaving a comment.

How do you read CC critiques only? Do you go to CC members profiles or is there another way I missed somewhere?

Thank you for the compliment. I try to be as honest as I can without being mean or harsh. Even if I don't like the photo or, to borrow someone else's phrase, it is a 'challenged' photo, I try and at least give one or two positive remarks.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

11/07/2005 10:41:33 AM · #10

Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:

I saw your so-called critique club comment and I have to agree, it's weak at best. I am a fairly new member of the CC and while I do not have time to do many, those that I do have time for, I try to be thorough. I guess I try to emphasize quality, not quantity.

I think that there needs to be some sort of quality control on critiques, at least for newcomers. Maybe a probationary period or something similar.

Prof_Fate

11/07/2005 10:53:15 AM · #11

I am new to the CC - tried to join in the past without success. I take the 'job' seriously and while i have not done many critiques do far I hope i have done well on those few.

The only 'training' we get is a sample critique that is very good, that we are asked to emulate. We must also identify our critique as being from the CC and should PM the member so they know the CC has been there.

Just like Alienyst, is you would like a CC from me after your pic has dropped form the queue, PM me and i'll get to it as soon as i can. Some weeks are busier than others, like last week was hell, this week should be better for me.

If you think a critique is not up to the 'standard', pm hbunch.

SJCarter

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/07/2005 11:13:01 AM · #12

I am also a member of the Critique Club, and while I have not given many lately, I do take the responsibility seriously and try to provide an in depth opinion of the image. After reading some of the recent ones and their lack of quality (IMHO), I am going to double my efforts to try to provide at least one/day. Not saying that mine are the end all be all, but I usually get a positive reaction (even though they are not all complimentary).

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

11/07/2005 11:16:39 AM · #13

I'll just add my two cents worth here too. As a recent addition to the Critique Club rolls, I've managed to dent the backlog somewhat and have enjoyed doing it.

My feedback from those critiqued seem to say they appreciate my remarks. But, yes, there are some who don't mark the critique as "helpful" nor do they offer feedback in any other way.

It takes me about 20 minutes to do a critique, and I do it to the best of my ability in my own way. I can't emulate someone else's style.

Sure, it would be fun to 'win' the free membership. However, that's not why I joined the Club. Nor would I keep the membership if I won it. There are too many people in this site who cannot join for one reason or another, who could use it.

Swinging, like others in this thread, I'd suggest that you too climb aboard and try your hand on the Backlog. YOu'll make other photographers happy most of the time, and you may have a better chance at getting your own critiqued.

Best regards,
Alice

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

11/07/2005 04:51:50 PM · #14

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

We must also identify our critique as being from the CC and should PM the member so they know the CC has been there.

I have never been PM from anyone in the CC, so there for my requests for a CC memeber to look at my stuff has NEVER been given.

Also, I do check box those I find helpful in there remarks, or correspond to what I thought needed improvement. I am a perfectionist with my art, and to know how the reactions, and impressions are of other people are important to me.

Come CC memebers, lets get er dun.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

11/07/2005 05:00:16 PM · #15

I am a member of the CC and when I critique a photograph this is what I refer to. I usually critique in three paragraphs trying to explain what I think of the photograph. You can go to my comments made here and look for the critiques that says "From the Critique Club" to see an example. I also PM every photographer after I have critiqued the photograph. I have not done any lately because of the problem with my dad buy scroll down and you will see them.

MY CRITIQUE GUIDELINE.

The purpose of critiquing photographs should be to help photographers to improve their work through a better understanding and proficiency in the technical aspects of photography and the theory of visual literacy, and this while helping the photographer maintain his or her individuality and way of seeing.
The critique should attempt to open the photographer's own thought process; it should not be an attempt to change the photographer into a clone of the assessor - the very curse to creativity.
It is essential to determine the photographer's purpose for making the image: Was it to be a clinical study, story illustration, social documentary, fine art piece or perhaps an entry for a competition? Only then can the critique be properly focused to assist the photographer along an effective learning path.

1. TECHNICAL QUALITY
Editors, judges and evaluators all agree: a successful photographic image must have good technical quality to start with.
· FOCUS: Is the image sharp? If not, is it intentionally soft and successful?
· CLEANLINESS: Is it free of scratches, dust spots, stains, lens flare, etc?
· EXPOSURE: Is it too light, too dark or just right?
· LIGHTING: Is the lighting too contrasty, too flat or just right?
· COLORS: Does it have neutral colors or a strange colorcast?

2. COMPOSITION
Affected by the camera viewpoint and focal length of the lens. It can raise an image from a technical success to an artistic success!
· BALANCE: Is the image aligned correctly or is it crooked?
· LOGIC: Is the arrangement of the visual elements effective?
· PURPOSE: Is there a strong center of interest, pattern or design?
· CLARITY: Is it simple, yet complete and without distracting elements?

3. EMOTIONAL APPEAL
The vital element for a truly great image, making it unique and memorable.
· DYNAMIC: Does it grab and keep your attention? Does it have the "wow" factor?
· PROVOCATIVE: Does it excite your imagination, or create a strong emotion in you?
· CREATIVE: Does it show a familiar subject in a new, unusual and yet effective way?
· UNUSUAL: Does it show a very unusual subject in an effective way?

Message edited by author 2005-11-07 17:06:58.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/07/2005 05:04:01 PM · #16

I have recently joined CC. AS has been stated previously, CC members do not choose what they critique, they are assigned an image.

I start by stating that the comment is from the Critique Club, I then establish what the image is and what challenge it was entered into, and if it met the challenge. Next I go through the technical aspect...this is not helped when people don't include processing details in their photog comments. These are damned helpful as CC members then have some idea of what, if anything is right ot wrong.

I then do a brief statement on the composition and finally an overall impression, including the score. After posting, I PM the member to let them know that the critique has been done.

If anyone wants to complain about my critques they are free to critique my critique! Each one takes an average of 20/25 minutes. I try to be constructive and pleasant in what I say.

Steve

plus: it is very interesting how it affects your voting, you start to think more before voting. And, it makes you think more about your own images.

Message edited by author 2005-11-07 17:08:21.

CEJ

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/07/2005 05:06:02 PM · #17

Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:

I have never been PM from anyone in the CC, so there for my requests for a CC memeber to look at my stuff has NEVER been given.

Well...every critique I have written I have started out with "Hello from the Critique Club!" and everyone who has gotten a critique by me has also had a PM sent afterwards except for one or two of the first 4 or 5 I wrote - was not in the habit yet. But all since then have gotten a PM after.

11/07/2005 05:10:10 PM · #18

I am not pointing blame in any direction.

On a general overview of the responces to my work, and to what the requirements state, and to what you have already wrote in this thread, I guess I have never been given the curtosy (spelling) of a CC, or if I have I have never been PM.

That is all I am saying.

I just want to know so I can grow.

Message edited by author 2005-11-07 17:10:29.

cpanaioti

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

11/07/2005 05:17:27 PM · #19

Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:

Actually, your 'Football Star' image got a critique club comment. Not all those who do CC comments PM the recipient.

sittingonthegrass

Canon PowerShot ELPH 330 HS

11/07/2005 05:24:21 PM · #20

Originally posted by SDW65:

I am a member of the CC and when I critique a photograph this is what I refer to. I usually critique in three paragraphs trying to explain what I think of the photograph. You can go to my comments made here and look for the critiques that says "From the Critique Club" to see an example. I also PM every photographer after I have critiqued the photograph. I have not done any lately because of the problem with my dad buy scroll down and you will see them.

[B]MY CRITIQUE GUIDELINE.[/B

The purpose of critiquing photographs should be to help photographers to improve their work through a better understanding and proficiency in the technical aspects of photography and the theory of visual literacy, and this while helping the photographer maintain his or her individuality and way of seeing.
The critique should attempt to open the photographer's own thought process; it should not be an attempt to change the photographer into a clone of the assessor - the very curse to creativity.
It is essential to determine the photographer's purpose for making the image: Was it to be a clinical study, story illustration, social documentary, fine art piece or perhaps an entry for a competition? Only then can the critique be properly focused to assist the photographer along an effective learning path.

1. TECHNICAL QUALITY
Editors, judges and evaluators all agree: a successful photographic image must have good technical quality to start with.
· FOCUS: Is the image sharp? If not, is it intentionally soft and successful?
· CLEANLINESS: Is it free of scratches, dust spots, stains, lens flare, etc?
· EXPOSURE: Is it too light, too dark or just right?
· LIGHTING: Is the lighting too contrasty, too flat or just right?
· COLORS: Does it have neutral colors or a strange colorcast?

2. COMPOSITION
Affected by the camera viewpoint and focal length of the lens. It can raise an image from a technical success to an artistic success!
· BALANCE: Is the image aligned correctly or is it crooked?
· LOGIC: Is the arrangement of the visual elements effective?
· PURPOSE: Is there a strong center of interest, pattern or design?
· CLARITY: Is it simple, yet complete and without distracting elements?

3. EMOTIONAL APPEAL
The vital element for a truly great image, making it unique and memorable.
· DYNAMIC: Does it grab and keep your attention? Does it have the "wow" factor?
· PROVOCATIVE: Does it excite your imagination, or create a strong emotion in you?
· CREATIVE: Does it show a familiar subject in a new, unusual and yet effective way?
· UNUSUAL: Does it show a very unusual subject in an effective way?

SDW65 for'Composition' you might consider the Elements and Principles of Design

11/07/2005 05:27:09 PM · #21

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

[quote=swinging_johnson_v1]

Actually, your 'Football Star' image got a critique club comment. Not all those who do CC comments PM the recipient.

I never knew that I had that. Sorry for the inconveinience.

So, your saying that a PM is required, or not required. Now I am confused.
Also, CC is only given after the challenge is done, or does it matter. I am confused on this as well.

Hell, I'm just confused and probly could use a drink.

cpanaioti

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

11/07/2005 05:29:21 PM · #22

Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
[quote=swinging_johnson_v1]

Actually, your 'Football Star' image got a critique club comment. Not all those who do CC comments PM the recipient.

I never knew that I had that. Sorry for the inconveinience.

So, your saying that a PM is required, or not required. Now I am confused.
Also, CC is only given after the challenge is done, or does it matter. I am confused on this as well.

Hell, I'm just confused and probly could use a drink.

CC's are only given after a challenge is over and are usually marked with 'Critique Club' at the top of the comment to distinguish it from other comments.

It's not required to send a PM but not all people check their comments received (or remember what the previous number was) so it's suggested that those leaving CC comments send a PM.

Prof_Fate

11/07/2005 05:45:23 PM · #23

Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

We must also identify our critique as being from the CC and should PM the member so they know the CC has been there.

I have never been PM from anyone in the CC, so there for my requests for a CC memeber to look at my stuff has NEVER been given.

Also, I do check box those I find helpful in there remarks, or correspond to what I thought needed improvement. I am a perfectionist with my art, and to know how the reactions, and impressions are of other people are important to me.

Come CC memebers, lets get er dun.

I said should pm. And that is how it was explained to me, so i do the PM thing..unless i forget. I am new at this...so forgive me if i forget.
I have entered 50 some challenges and did request CC on many of them for a while, but never got any (that i know of - i rarely if ever go back to comments after a challenge is over) so i quite trying.

Right now there are 197 images awaiting a critique. that will jump bit on tuesday when the challenges end. It is down considerably from last week when it was near 500!

So see, while the system is not perfect, it is being improved for your pleasure. Or whatever you might call it.

You should mark those comments you receive as helpful, if you find them so. You can go back thru your pics and do that now, if you have a moment. In the begining I didn't know to do it either, and now am probably too generous with checking that box.

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

11/07/2005 05:57:49 PM · #24

It's probably important to recognize that we are all volunteers here. Critique Club members are not necessarily professionals or teachers. They are your fellow photographers who are trying to fill a need.

Sure, we have guidelines. "Put at the top of your Critique Greetings from the Critique Club" and send a PM to the person who received the Critique.

Sure, some of us are better than others at giving critiques and following the form.

It does seem to me that if you have a problem with a critique, either style or content, you should get in touch with the person who wrote it OR to one of the people who oversee the Critique Club. HBunch, MK and Manic come to mind without looking up names.

(The critique in question is from a new member who's just starting out. How much do you wanna bet he'll continue after this.)

I'm not too sure I see much advantage to the idea of complaining about a single critique in the forums and which (for some of us sensitive souls) could be construed as griping about the club as a whole.

I don't mean the above to sound grouchy, honest. And maybe I misread your original post, Swinging Johnson v1. Anyhow, I just had to say this.

Alice