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06/04/2003 10:50:28 AM · #1 |
Hey there guys. Just wanted to say that I got disqualified due to dodging and burning. I had no idea this was considered "spot editing." I thought spot editing was taking out leaves and changing things around in the picture.
It says: "Spot-Editing: Absolutely no spot-editing is allowed. The use of any type of selection tool is prohibited except to select a non-feathered, non-anti-aliased rectangular area for cropping."
Well... the definition I read made it sound like you can't select items and adjust them - but I would never suspect that plain old "dodging and burning" would be a no-no - especially since it is such a big part of traditional darkroom technique (I don't think I've ever NOT dodged and burned any of my B&W prints.
OH well. That sucks. Good luck everyone. I'm not coming back. |
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06/04/2003 10:55:00 AM · #2 |
Sorry to hear about the DQ.
More sorry to hear about your leaving.
However, when you are dodging and burning, you are changing a selected area of the photo, are you not? Therefore under the current rules it is spot edited.. This site is trying to have rules that keeps the playing field level rather than a software editing expertise competition.
Hope you will change your mind, but if not, good luck.
BTW: did you actually get DQ'd, or a request for verification?
Message edited by author 2003-06-04 10:58:03. |
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06/04/2003 10:56:10 AM · #3 |
Don't be too hasty, I'm sure you would contribute to this community in a big way. Can we see what your photo would have looked like without dodging and burning?
There's only so much you can do to a photo, it has to be great in the first place, and yours is great! |
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06/04/2003 10:56:33 AM · #4 |
Which shot? Liquid or home sweet home? Sound? What's been DQd because your winner is still up?
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06/04/2003 10:56:44 AM · #5 |
| niner, don't leave us... stick around and join the group who wants to push for allowing these types of edits :) |
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06/04/2003 10:58:38 AM · #6 |
| Don't leave, your picture is beautiful, and I (and many others, I'm sure) was looking forward to seeing more of your photography. |
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06/04/2003 11:04:58 AM · #7 |
I hope that you will reconsider and stay here. Your photo is excellent.
I really want to see more from you.
Joan |
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06/04/2003 11:14:47 AM · #8 |
Sorry for the temper tantrum, everyone. I am just frustrated becuase it was the first time I really used one of these challenges to go out there and get better. I took so many shots, it's not even funny. I really am new to digital - and I'm used to the darkroom. Dodging and burning has been something I've been taught to do from day one in the darkroom, and I've read countless books about the masters using dodging and burning as one of their primary tools. It just never entered my mind that it would "taboo" in digital photography. What I'll do is chalk it up with experience and still try to get better WITHOUT dodging and burning. :) Thanks for your support everyone. One of the reasons I tried so hard on this project is that the community here seemed very cool - and I started posting, contributing, etc. when I submitted my first challenge. I love the dang picture though. Oh well.. :) THANK YOU!
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06/04/2003 11:18:19 AM · #9 |
It is a great shot all the same ninerfan. Thanks for hanging in there. We'd love to see more :)
It was not a temper tantrum. Photography is near and dear to all of our hearts, so we understand your frustration.
I agree with John about taking a proactive position to discuss the possiblity of allowing d/b in future challenges. Unfortunatley as it stands for now, it is part of the rules.
Hang in there, and maybe sell your print on dpcprints. :)
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06/04/2003 11:18:25 AM · #10 |
| Ok... one more thing. In traditional photography - "spotting" is when you take that dang ink and try to fix dust spots and stuff. I guess I thought "spot editing" meant much the same - going in and fixing individual parts of the picture by "filling" in spots - and I can see how some might say that takes away from the integrity of the image... but I still don't see the bad part of dodging and burning. Well... I'll learn. Again, thank you. |
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06/04/2003 11:18:49 AM · #11 |
| The arguments between film photography and digital, well, sometimes, just sometimes ... (whispering here) ... I find some of the film photographers a bit annoying when they insist theirs is the only "true" photography. Just was in a discussion on that last night, and digital got put down so much. Oh well. |
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06/04/2003 11:22:03 AM · #12 |
What photo? It's damned annoying having references to it and not being able to see it.
E
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06/04/2003 11:23:17 AM · #13 |
| Uabresch - I hope you don't think I was trying to put down digital photography. I was just trying to say that my training began there - and I've been learning digital all on my own. I didn't mean to put down digital in any way! I love it!! |
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06/04/2003 11:24:46 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by ninerfan:
I've read countless books about the masters using dodging and burning as one of their primary tools. It just never entered my mind that it would "taboo" in digital photography. What I'll do is chalk it up with experience and still try to get better WITHOUT dodging and burning. :) Thanks for your support everyone. |
It is not at all tabboo in DP, just in these particular challenges. It is precisely because it is so easy and effective that we've had to have an outright prohibition on these techniques (e.g. "spotting") because there was no way to effectively determine or enforce a limit.
Hang in there ... I had a photo DQ's because there was a one-pixel row of the background color at the top (sloppy crop job) and at that time any kind of border or padding was prohibited. Just read all the rules and be careful and you'll have a lot of fun! |
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06/04/2003 11:26:07 AM · #15 |
Ditto to what everyone else said, and I look forward to seeing more of your work. Hang in there!
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06/04/2003 11:29:33 AM · #16 |
| What picture was the one that got DQ'd? I can't find it anywhere... |
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06/04/2003 11:30:47 AM · #17 |
I'd like to join the group that pushes for dodging and burning. I find it difficult to produce a 100% perfectly exposed image from digital because a digital sensor has less latitude for exposure than film does. I.e. you have a much higher chance of getting hot spots or dark dark shadows in digital photography than in film because the film can more accurately see dark shadows and light highlights simultaneously.
Dodging and burning is an essential tool for photography. Even the best photographers have to dodge and burn in order to get their print to be the best it absolutely can. I think it's absurd to allow Gaussian blur as an editing tool and not allow dodging and burning. |
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06/04/2003 11:52:36 AM · #18 |
I too agree with everone else ninerfan, stick around.
My only question to the group/admins/site council is: Is there anyway to tell who is doing spot editting? For example, I have some blown out pixels, if I was to "clone" or "rubber stamp" those, how could you possibly tell? Unless I was really sloppy. I was really tempted to do it actually, but I believe in the integrety of the rules. The thing is, if you allow one minor thing, it has a tendancy to snowball. You know the old adage, "Give an inch....take a foot."
How much minor spot editting actually goes on here though? Too bad we couldn't have an anonymous poll ;).
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06/04/2003 12:08:30 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by orussell:
How much minor spot editing actually goes on here though? Too bad we couldn't have an anonymous poll ;). |
That would be interesting:
Have you ever spot-edited a submitted photo? (Yes/No)
VERY interesting! |
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06/04/2003 12:08:39 PM · #20 |
| Niner, I didn't think you were. I just was a bit disgusted from last night. |
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06/04/2003 12:13:18 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by carsten:
Originally posted by orussell:
How much minor spot editing actually goes on here though? Too bad we couldn't have an anonymous poll ;). |
That would be interesting:
Have you ever spot-edited a submitted photo? (Yes/No)
VERY interesting! |
I was very tempted once, in order to remove a piece of garbage, but felt I would not be able to live with myself if I did. I will fix it in the print version though.
Message edited by author 2003-06-04 12:13:59.
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06/04/2003 12:14:34 PM · #22 |
The pic that was disqualified was the first place winner from the Home sweet Home challenge. It was an excelent photo either way. I'd also like to see it without the post processing. I'm sure it was a good shot before dodging and burning too.
To ORUSSELL...
We just know. *evil grin* |
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06/04/2003 12:21:51 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
The pic that was disqualified was the first place winner from the Home sweet Home challenge. It was an excelent photo either way. I'd also like to see it without the post processing. I'm sure it was a good shot before dodging and burning too.
To ORUSSELL...
We just know. *evil grin* |
You're "the one" aren't you? ;)
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06/04/2003 12:26:10 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by mariomel:
I was very tempted once, in order to remove a piece of garbage, but felt I would not be able to live with myself if I did. I will fix it in the print version though. |
If it's any consolation, I *knew* there was a piece of garbage in the photo and went to the link and spent a good several seconds going "where? where?" before I saw it. It's less noticeable than you think, because the foreground is so prominent in the image. But I agree, when you're "allowed" to edit it out, might as well. :) Nice photo! |
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06/04/2003 01:10:02 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by e301:
What photo? It's damned annoying having references to it and not being able to see it.
E |
Ditto. |
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