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08/14/2005 02:40:54 PM · #1 |
My typical frikken problem is getting too bright a sky compared to the subject matter. Here's my example & how I'm hoping to be able to fix my problems.
1. Here's an original, sampled-down shot.
2. In Photoshop 7 I like to run Auto Color, Auto Contrast, and Auto Levels, then resize & USM is what I typically do before adding stuff to my portfolio. This usually makes my subject look much nicer, but if there happens to be any sky in my shot, or a light area, it blows out. I will then usually kick the cat in frustration. See below:
3. In the rendition below, I've just figured out that I can create a duplicate layer. I then go to Levels and drag the left pointer over until I pretty much have a silhouette. Then, in the Blend options for that layer I choose the left pointer for the Blend If - This Layer, and drag it over just one point to get the result below. From here I'd be able to continue on to get the darkened-sky result I want, but the frikken-damn contact area between trees & sky is all frigged up & I find myself kicking that dang annoying, howling cat repeatedly. I then bang my head against a brick wall until blood is freely flowing from my ears.
Even in the last version, there's a blownout part of sky. I just want to darken the stinkin-damn sky, is that so much to ask? Does anybody know where the stinkin-damn "Darken Sky" button is in Photoshop 7?
Now where's that cat!
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08/14/2005 02:47:54 PM · #2 |
| The "simple" answer is to use a graduated neutral-density filter; this is specifically what they're designed for. They're dark at the top and lighter at the bottom to filter out some of the light from the sky and even out the exposure. |
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08/14/2005 02:49:16 PM · #3 |
What you really need is something to soften the edges a little, ?
The cats fur should do the trick, just glue a little on the join, be careful you don't fall off the castle into the lake though.
Or in other words I havn't a clue .
Help someone ? |
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08/14/2005 02:54:25 PM · #4 |
I got a circular polarizer hoping it would help. I also shoot stuff like this at F/8 and -0.7 exposure compensation. It annoys me so much!
Here, kitty, kitty, kitty. Daddy's got a treat for you!
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08/14/2005 02:56:46 PM · #5 |
If you want to try and simulate this in post-processing, try this.
Create an alpha channel/mask, and fill it with a vertical gradient. Use the Curves/Levels adjustment to put the 50% point near the horizon (for now, you can obviously experiment with this, invluding shaping the mask to fit your subject matter).
Now, load the selection as a mask for a Curves Adjustment Layer and adjust whichever part of the photo is the active selection -- either darken the sky or lighten the foreground. The effect should fade out with the opacity of the mask.
When that part looks good, invert the selection and use that as a mask for another Adjustment Layer for the other half of the photo.
You can then add any other overall adjustments for tone or color. I always then save the composite image as an uncompressed TIFF file, flattened and without the alpha channels, resize if necessary, and apply any sharpening there, before saving any final JPEG for uploading. |
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08/14/2005 02:59:25 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I got a circular polarizer hoping it would help. I also shoot stuff like this at F/8 and -0.7 exposure compensation. It annoys me so much!
Here, kitty, kitty, kitty. Daddy's got a treat for you! |
If you already have the filter adapter for your camera then get a graduated ND filter. The polarizer is great for "pure" sky and water shots, but (as you've found) impairs getting a decent shadow exposure simultaneously. |
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08/14/2005 03:00:28 PM · #7 |
I just picked up 2 cokin gradual filters yesterday. A 1 stop and a 2 stop, or I can put them together and make a 3 stop. They work great.
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08/14/2005 03:01:10 PM · #8 |
Heida might be a good one to ask on this as well......(I'm still winging it trying to figure that stuff out too!)
edit: or BradP, he would be another good one to ask.
Message edited by author 2005-08-14 15:01:29. |
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08/14/2005 03:02:28 PM · #9 |
STOP using auto anything. Auto take too many things into consideration to be just perfect.
Take more time to do your edits manuelly.
Learn to use mattes, and I don't mean the extraction tool either.
Levels are your friend.
As far as your sky is concerned, isolate the sky, put it into a seperate layer, adjust per your taste.
GeneralE has good advice.
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08/14/2005 03:11:21 PM · #10 |
I think I saw this trick on one of the tutorials, and it's been invaluable to me--
1. you can do an auto selection of the highlight areas with ctrl-alt-~ (tilde).
2. hit ctrl-j to duplicate the selection into a new layer.
3. change the blending to multiply. voila! highlight areas darkened.
4. adjust the opacity of the layer to get a more appropriate result.
5. you can add a layer mask and work from there if you wish.
-damon |
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08/14/2005 03:26:17 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by mycelium:
I think I saw this trick on one of the tutorials, and it's been invaluable to me--
1. you can do an auto selection of the highlight areas with ctrl-alt-~ (tilde).
2. hit ctrl-j to duplicate the selection into a new layer.
3. change the blending to multiply. voila! highlight areas darkened.
4. adjust the opacity of the layer to get a more appropriate result.
5. you can add a layer mask and work from there if you wish.
-damon |
General E is speaking Greek to me, but this is pretty cool. The problem with Ctrl-Alt-tilde is that it also selects a bunch of stuff I don't want to select. Maybe there's a way to tweak it.
Thx
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08/14/2005 03:26:33 PM · #12 |
I sometimes use a "quick & dirty" method that does not involve layers 9adjustment or otherwise):
1.) enter quickmask mode (type "q')
2.) select gradient tool, choose a linear gradient (2nd choice from left) and in the left-hand drop-down box, choose "foreground to transparent"
3.) Click/drag upward across the horizon, creating a very broad gradient across it; on yoiur example, the gradient width should be at least 75px, 100 would be better. The red-shaded areas are what will be deselected, the clear areas selected.
4.) You can refine the mask by using the brush or eraser tools, set as soft as possible and with a tool width about twice the gradient width (very large). Helps to set the opacity down a little too...
5.) type "q" again to exit the quickmask mode. Notice where the selection line is? It's at 50% selection density in the gradient. If it's not at the horizon or just below it, reenter quickmask and fix up the mask.
6.) After exiting quickmask mode, adjust curves for sky, then selection>invert and adjust for foreground.
The entire above procedure usually takes me about 1 minute or less. I'll try a pass at your photo as an example in a minute...
Edit:
Here's an example...
Message edited by author 2005-08-14 15:33:42.
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08/14/2005 03:31:21 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
General E is speaking Greek to me, but this is pretty cool. The problem with Ctrl-Alt-tilde is that it also selects a bunch of stuff I don't want to select. Maybe there's a way to tweak it.
Thx |
if you want *only* the sky, there may be no entirely easy solution, but you can do one of two things
-just mask off the parts of the layer you don't want, or
-use the "intersect" selection tool (holding ctrl and alt, I think... will put a little "X" next to the cursor) and, after having selected the highlights, drag a box that covers the sky. you might still need to edit the edges.
in any case, this approach will help you avoid the evil cat-kick-inducing jaggies. |
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08/14/2005 03:33:52 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by mycelium:
I think I saw this trick on one of the tutorials, and it's been invaluable to me--
1. you can do an auto selection of the highlight areas with ctrl-alt-~ (tilde).
2. hit ctrl-j to duplicate the selection into a new layer.
3. change the blending to multiply. voila! highlight areas darkened.
4. adjust the opacity of the layer to get a more appropriate result.
5. you can add a layer mask and work from there if you wish.
-damon |
General E is speaking Greek to me, but this is pretty cool. The problem with Ctrl-Alt-tilde is that it also selects a bunch of stuff I don't want to select. Maybe there's a way to tweak it.
Thx |
You can use the lasso and hold ALT to deselect certain areas or if you did step 2, you can use the eraser to remove the areas over the water. I found mycelium's process works great. I tried it and added some d & b on the sky, USM, levels, curves - basically just keep mucking with it till you get something you like. It's a great shot to work with, Slippy!
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08/14/2005 04:08:10 PM · #15 |
Ugh, I suck at selection tools of any sort. Thanks for the help, I'll keep at it as it's an ongoing problem for me.
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08/14/2005 04:25:39 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Ugh, I suck at selection tools of any sort. Thanks for the help, I'll keep at it as it's an ongoing problem for me. |
Try this variation:
- Duplicate the base layer
- Adjust base layer for foreground, and adjust the duplicate layer for the sky
- Create a layer mask on the duplicate layer
- Select the layer mask for editing, select the brush tool, and paint with black to mask, or white to unmask
The advantage to this method is that if you screw it up, you can just repaint that area of the mask, or if it's really hosed, just ditch the mask and start over. Though it might take a little longer to do initially, this method will inevitably save you time and frustration if you're not completely confident at working with masks. I wholeheartedly recommend this if you want to experiemnt without undue frustration.
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08/14/2005 04:34:03 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Ugh, I suck at selection tools of any sort. Thanks for the help, I'll keep at it as it's an ongoing problem for me. |
OK
do this.
go to your color channels.
select between rgb finding the one pix that has the most contrast. for this example lets say red.
make a copy of the red channel.
go to IMAGE and scroll down to APPLY IMAGE.
under channel you need to find the channel with the least contrast between blue and green. Just click between the two in the channels box.
Make sure blending is on screen. Opacity 100%. Click OK.
At this point I can talk about Garbage Mattes, but let stick to the basics.
Make sure at this juncture that you have the red copy highlighted.
Go to levels. In levels you want to remember that white is what you are extracting, or isolateing within the pix. Black is what is left behind.
Use your sliders on the levels trying to get as much of the edges of your extraction as possible. You will have to experiment at this point to get what you want. Don't worry if there is other stuff captured around your extraction, you'll clean that up soon.
press ok.
Take your red channel copy and load it as a selection.
click your layers.
click the background.
see the marching ants.
take a lasso tool and either pressing shift to add too, or control to get rid of is the next step.
When you cleaned up the stuff not wanting to extract, go to the extraction in the image and make sure the edges are to your liking. get in close wiht the magnifying glass to check the edges.
if the edges are not good, then take the magnetic lasso tool, or the plain lasso tool and fix the edge. the shift, and control keys are still active with this tool.
when the marching ants are to your liking, make a layer of this and adjust to your likings.
good luck.
Message edited by author 2005-08-14 16:36:06.
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08/14/2005 04:53:08 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by mycelium:
I think I saw this trick on one of the tutorials, and it's been invaluable to me--
1. you can do an auto selection of the highlight areas with ctrl-alt-~ (tilde).
2. hit ctrl-j to duplicate the selection into a new layer.
3. change the blending to multiply. voila! highlight areas darkened.
4. adjust the opacity of the layer to get a more appropriate result.
5. you can add a layer mask and work from there if you wish.
-damon |
General E is speaking Greek to me, but this is pretty cool. The problem with Ctrl-Alt-tilde is that it also selects a bunch of stuff I don't want to select. Maybe there's a way to tweak it.
Thx |
You can use the lasso and hold ALT to deselect certain areas or if you did step 2, you can use the eraser to remove the areas over the water. I found mycelium's process works great. I tried it and added some d & b on the sky, USM, levels, curves - basically just keep mucking with it till you get something you like. It's a great shot to work with, Slippy!
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I really like that result. Is it possible for you to post your exact steps as you got to that point?
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08/14/2005 05:19:47 PM · #19 |
I don't think Photoshop 7 has this feature, so this is probably only going to rub salt into your wounds....
Photoshop CS onwards has the Shadow/Highlight Tool, its about as close to the "Darken Sky button" as you are going to get! Its a fantastic tool, perfect for the situation you are describing.
No need for complex selections, alpha channels etc. Simple slider control makes managing blown out highlights and underexposed shadows a breeze, particularly in situations when the camera simply isn't capable of managing the dynamic range you are photographing.
Cheers,
Simon
Message edited by author 2005-08-14 17:22:13. |
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08/14/2005 05:30:33 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Simonjw:
I don't think Photoshop 7 has this feature, so this is probably only going to rub salt into your wounds....
Photoshop CS onwards has the Shadow/Highlight Tool, its about as close to the "Darken Sky button" as you are going to get! Its a fantastic tool, perfect for the situation you are describing.
No need for complex selections, alpha channels etc. Simple slider control makes managing blown out highlights and underexposed shadows a breeze, particularly in situations when the camera simply isn't capable of managing the dynamic range you are photographing.
Cheers,
Simon |
Zoinks, thanks!
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08/14/2005 05:48:15 PM · #21 |
do you mean like this?
pic
takes about 30 seconds tops.
pm me if you want to know more i'm off to bed...
Message edited by author 2005-08-14 17:49:25. |
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08/14/2005 05:50:01 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by sn4psh07:
do you mean like this?
pic
takes about 30 seconds tops.
pm me if you want to know more i'm off to bed... |
fixed your link
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08/14/2005 06:10:10 PM · #23 |
Quick 'n dirty on the selection, really needs to be touched up a bit and feathered better around the leaves and roofline, but this is basically two RGB Curves, one each for the sky and everything else. I made the initial selection by using the Magic Wand at 64 and clicking in one of the darker areas of the sky, top-center, then used Select > Similar to grab the non-contiguous areas. Feathered 4 pixels.
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08/14/2005 06:53:06 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by phinbob:
I really like that result. Is it possible for you to post your exact steps as you got to that point? |
I am terrible at keeping track and usually end up with more steps than necessary. I thought about saving my history - - right after I closed the file. Sorry. The best I can say is to repeat this: basically just keep mucking with it till you get something you like |
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08/15/2005 07:27:13 AM · #25 |
Well here is a quick and dirty 1 minute job which is slightly exaggerated in effect so you can see the drawback of my method. Well I shouldn't call it "my" method. In fact it is an old darkroom technique used digitally. It will give near identical results to the Shadow/ Highlight tool in PS CS.
//www.runwin.co.uk/pic.jpg
I can't remember the name of the technique at the mo but I can look it up if you like the result. The only problem is the slight haloing around light and dark patches...
Oh yeah, no ugly masks or selections in this method either.
Edit--
The noise is due to the exaggerated effect.
How do you post thumbnails? Do you need to be a member I can't find it...
Message edited by Manic - please post thumbs or links, not large images. |
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