FREE Canon 10D - DPChallenge Forums

05/12/2003 10:57:21 AM · #1

Now that you have been duped into opening this thread, I hope you will take the time to read the whole thing.

I am writing this in regards to the members challenge "Postcards". I hope that you find it informational and not offensive.

I want to ask each of you, as you vote to ask yourself the following questions:
1. Why would a person pay to be a member if he/she were not serious about photography?
2. Why would a serious photographer enter a perfectly composed picture that the color was washed out or poorly exposed?
3. Why would a serious photographer take the time to resize a picture to the perfect aspect ratio to meet the challenge?

I think, with those simple thoughts you should be on track with where I am going with this. When voting try to get into the photographer's head before punching that button. I have singled out one entry without the photographers' knowledge with the hopes to make a point, which is, TAKE ENOUGH TIME TO FAIRLY EVALUATE THE PICTURE.

Entry of Discussion

This is what I thought before I cast my vote on this entry. It is perfectly composed and looks just like an old postcard, faded out color and all. Many postcard pictures were not the best artistic composition, The buildings were perfectly centered, with little of no thought given to the picture except to let the person you sent it to know where you were at the time. It was never meant to be hung in the living room. A lot of them were hand colored and the colors were not true to the actual setting, lots of them were kind of bleached out and dull, or just the opposite, way too bright and overbearing.

I feel real lonely being the only member to give this entry a 10 vote, but at the same time feel good that I took the time to get into the photographers head. At least I think I did.

05/12/2003 11:17:44 AM · #2

bump

magnetic9999

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

05/12/2003 11:35:39 AM · #3

autool,

i can see what you're saying in terms of 'realistic portrayal of an old not too carefully crafted postcard'.

but my impression is that alot of people voted for how appealing the shots were, as well as the usual technical attributes :).

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

05/12/2003 11:47:54 AM · #4

Hi autotool

This is my photo that you chose and I want to thank you for bringing it up.

A lot of the old postcards i have seen, I collected them for years in my youth, were this washed out kind of faded looking cards. I thought that it was a reasonable way to portray the fairgrounds since to me, the fair takes me back to a simpler time.

Thank you for your 10 vote, i do appreciate it. I can't begin to tell you how seriously disappointed that i was with my final standing in this contest. But I will just chalk it up as a learning experience and try to avoid the same "mistake" again.

I think this falls into the same lines as a previous post regarding "artsy-fartsy" photos as well no doing very well.

Perhaps we have been spoiled by the few spectacular photos that show up every week and as voters we have set our standards to be very high.

Thanks again, autotool. I do appreciate you remarks.

Rick

magnetic9999

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

05/12/2003 11:59:36 AM · #5

one of the difficulties under which we all labor is that we have no idea of knowing whether it was intentional or whether the photog just didn't know how to expose, post-process, focus, or whatever else it is ..

how can we remedy that?

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/12/2003 12:02:49 PM · #6

Damn, i thought I could return my 10D and get this free one :)

05/12/2003 12:06:50 PM · #7

Part of the point I was trying to make was that this was a members challenge. I think the members are primarily composed of people with a certain amount of experience and for sure serious enough to cough up the membership fee.
I just think that we need to take enough time to give the photographer credit for his or her perspective.
Granted the challenge didn't say make an old postcard, but it didn't say make a shiny new one either.

Rick,
I appreciated your entry a lot and I am glad I was able to see what you did an excellent job of portraying.

Toddh

Canon EOS-30D

05/12/2003 12:07:53 PM · #8

perhaps something along those lines needs to be articulated in the title of the pic.... I agree with mag, it's not easy to ascertain whether these things are by design or lack of expertise or uncontrolable situation.... either way when I read the description it said make a great postcard for your city or state.... not an old postcard.... interpretation is an entirely individual thing of course...

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

05/12/2003 12:12:01 PM · #9

interesting question magnetic9999

i know that when we submit our photos there is a box for details...perhaps something could be coded for showing details if we want comments to be used in the voting process.

all in all as long as there are 100 or 200 individual people voting, each with different opinions, different likes/dislikes, i think that there will always be discussions on matters like these...for example a lot of times when i read comments left on my shots or anyone elses, i see one person saying "prefect focus, colors are great", while on the very same photo someone says "would be better if focus was better"

as long as the voting criteria is subjective, this type of discussion will continue i believe

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

05/12/2003 12:15:04 PM · #10

todd10d brings up another good point...

either way when I read the description it said make a great postcard for your city or state.... not an old postcardtext

interpretation of the challenge is also subjective...just look at the major thred regaring "Primary Colors"

05/12/2003 12:24:26 PM · #11

Interpretation of the challenge is what makes this site so fun and interesting. In the "Primary Colors" challenge I had another individual refine the challenge to a more specific subject and then tried to do it.

She told me to get three helium baloons of primary colors, take them to the park, lay down on the ground, and release them. I was to do all of this and get a shot of them as they disappeared into the atmosphere. It sounded good, but I knew I couldn't do it in one shot, so a rigged up a release and connected them to some monofilament line to retrieve them. I tried this way more times than I like to admit and then finally gave up. Something always screwed the thing up. So I suggest keeping the challenges with a lot of latitude is a definate must.

Every one of my entries is the best work I have ever done, until the voting starts!

Message edited by author 2003-05-12 12:25:58.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

05/12/2003 12:29:38 PM · #12

Originally posted by autool:

Serious doesn't necessarily mean good (and I say this in no way relating to the postcard or photographer you pointed out). Serious might mean just starting and wanting to spend all their free learning. I don't think a $25 fee is enough to judge between the serious and non-serious. It's a fairly small sum of money, we're not talking thousands of dollars worth of heavy duty equipment or something.

And on a similiar note, judging differently or missing, collectively, the photographer's intention, doesn't necessarily mean not serious.

05/12/2003 12:35:55 PM · #13

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by autool:
Part of the point I was trying to make was that this was a members challenge. I think the members are primarily composed of people with a certain amount of experience and for sure serious enough to cough up the membership fee.

Serious doesn't necessarily mean good (and I say this in no way relating to the postcard or photographer you pointed out). Serious might mean just starting and wanting to spend all their free learning. I don't think a $25 fee is enough to judge between the serious and non-serious. It's a fairly small sum of money, we're not talking thousands of dollars worth of heavy duty equipment or something.

And on a similiar note, judging differently or missing, collectively, the photographer's intention, doesn't necessarily mean not serious.

I know what you are saying but I am also saying "Serious Good". Did you know that there are only 3.685 points separating first and last lace in the "Postcard" challenge. That tells me that all of the entries were at least good.

pinback

Canon EOS-10D

05/12/2003 12:45:08 PM · #14

Originally posted by mk:

Hear hear. The problem is that there's no way to convey your intentions with a shot - we can't see the comments box till after the voting ends. But if we could, that would leave it open to people (in)advertently giving the game away as to who the photographer is, and I think that would be A Bad Thing.

So given that, we have to take photos at face value. In the case of the example, I commented that it looked a little washed out. It is, but that's intentional. Obviously autool did a better job of getting inside the photographer's head than I did.

One of my prvious entries (that I really liked) didn't do very well - I'd deliberately used DOF to draw attention to subjects in the foreground of the shot, but I got a comment or two that the picture should be sharper throughout. C'est la vie.

So unless you allow photographers to explain what they were trying to do with a shot, I can't see a way around this. And I don't see how you would do that without opening a way for the system to be abused (intentionally or otherwise).

liltool

Kodak Z650

05/12/2003 12:52:05 PM · #15

Did I win?

jenarom

Sony DSC-F717

05/12/2003 01:01:22 PM · #16

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

Because when we're voting and critiquing we focus mostly on the technical side. We have to appreciate a picture for what it is, as it is, and try to get what it is that the picture is trying to say, as autool put it, get into the photographer's head.

To try and correct the technical issues in a photograph, is like saying how you would take that photograph, not how the photographer actually intended to take it.

pinback

Canon EOS-10D

05/12/2003 01:09:00 PM · #17

Originally posted by jenarom:

But surely we should be doing both? Assessing the picture technically (objective judgement) as well as how it 'speaks' to us as people (subjective judgement). Sometimes I see a picture which is fine technically but just leaves me cold. Conversely, I sometimes see a picture in which I like what the photographer is trying to say, but the technical execution may be lacking. It should all be factored in.

As I see it, the problem as far as the example picture goes, is that something which the photographer was trying to say in their shot could be interpreted as a technical shortcoming. And then it comes down to the photographer's intent, which is difficult to determine without some clues.

Message edited by author 2003-05-12 13:09:41.

liltool

Kodak Z650

05/12/2003 01:15:43 PM · #18

A real good photo that was turned into a postcard won this challenge. But sadly a real good postcard that makes me want to go to the Springfield fair and see what's behind that grand entry way ended up finishing six spots from last after meeting the challenge in such a simple undramatic way that most voters just didn't see it as a good postcard because the were to busy looking for good photos.

rickhd13,
When does the fair open and where's a good place to stay?

liltool