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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> What would you have done?
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10/09/2002 08:38:18 PM · #1
I feel that I'm starting to make some progress with this photography lark - pretty much figured out what most of the functions of may camera do anyway :-)

Composition wise, I had a real battle with myself over my reflections submission.

Take a look at this.

Given image #1 as a starting point, What would you have done? 1) for a DPC submission 2) In general.

What thought processes do you go through when composing/cropping a shot?



10/09/2002 08:50:05 PM · #2
Can't get your link to come up, lamedos - I get a "page cannot be displayed" thing.

Linda
10/09/2002 08:53:29 PM · #3
I'm getting the same thing, like the server is busy or something. I'll keep trying and let you know what comes up. This is where it is trying to take me...is this right?
//homepage.ntlworld.com/lamedos/imagecomparison.html#
~Heather~
10/09/2002 08:53:50 PM · #4
Originally posted by lhall:
Can't get your link to come up, lamedos - I get a "page cannot be displayed" thing.

Linda


DOH - works for me, anyone else can't see it? Any idea what might be wrong?

10/09/2002 08:54:30 PM · #5
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
I'm getting the same thing, like the server is busy or something. I'll keep trying and let you know what comes up. This is where it is trying to take me...is this right?
//homepage.ntlworld.com/lamedos/imagecomparison.html#
~Heather~


YUP - double DOH!!!

10/09/2002 09:00:50 PM · #6
Not sure. I tried it on both AOL, and with Internet explorer, and it wouldn't work on either. It acts like their server is too busy. Kind of like DPC at 12:10am Monday morning. :) Just getting the
" Web Site Not Responding
The web site you have requested may be experiencing technical difficulties due to a busy or broken server.
Please try again by clicking the Reload icon on your navigation bar or, if that doesn't work, you may want to return to the site at a later time. 502 Connection Failed "
Message.
I'll go back in a few and keep trying.
By the way, I really loved your swanset photo. I thought it was beautiful. I wouldn't have changed a thing on that shot!
~Heather~

10/09/2002 09:09:03 PM · #7
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
By the way, I really loved your swanset photo. I thought it was beautiful. I wouldn't have changed a thing on that shot!
~Heather~



Thanks Heather. Maybe you'll have another opinion if the page ever manages to load - it's possible there is a problem - it's a UK hosted site and I'm in the UK and can use the link no problem, so maybe there's a problem over the pond.


* This message has been edited by the author on 10/9/2002 9:07:08 PM.
10/09/2002 09:14:05 PM · #8
Still trying, no luck. While waiting, I was checking out your photos, and you have placed very well in all the challenges you have entered. In my opinion, you are doing very well. A lot better than my record!
I say keep up the great work!
~Heather~
10/09/2002 09:24:08 PM · #9
Wow those are some very nice photos!! I love them all, I would have to say I like the 2nd one the best because you can see the horizon. The 3rd is nice but the darkness above the swan is distracting. I would have voted the second picture a 10. Good job.
10/09/2002 09:29:08 PM · #10
lamedos -

i like the first one the best, hands down. i don't know how it would have done related to the challenge, but as a photograph it's great. the composition and mood is spot on. i really like the fact that the horizon is not centered in the photo, and i love the texture of the clouds, especially in contrast to the rippling water.

great shot.
10/09/2002 09:37:28 PM · #11
For what its worth I like your original uncropped image the best. We all
know all the rules eg. rule of thirds do not divide frame with horizon
line etc. I think most people have an instinctive sense of balance, visually, sometimes we just over think it. The rules give us a good
starting point. The job of a good photo is to entertain the eye and retain the viewers interest within the frame. By having a principal and
a secondary point of interest, my eye(both of them) are drawn deeper into image sustaining interest and pleasure. For what its worth.
10/09/2002 09:41:36 PM · #12
Wow!! I really like the full version of this as well. The clouds are beautiful. I think that for a regular photo, I would not change a thing in photo #1. Blow that up, frame it and hang it in your livingroom. Beautiful shot. #2 is also ver beautiful. I like the mellow tones of #1, and I like the framing of #2. I really like all 3.
For the challenge, I think that you could have gotten away with 1 or 2 and have placed high with it as well. You said you were worried about the reflection not being emphasized enough, but I think it would have done well. Great shot! And great editing.
~Heather~
10/09/2002 09:54:46 PM · #13
I may not be the best judge, but I think you should have gone with the composition right out of camera... It was a great shot.
10/09/2002 10:34:55 PM · #14
The third is the best in my view - my eye goes directly to the silhouetted bird - and spends no time on the treeline or sky (although that is pretty) - and the choice of the horizontal crop complements the base of the bird image - so you have that agreement of lines with no loss of the highlight of the sun - with the bonus that it is a reflection. This is by far the best selection and has the benefit of a close up view - this is a very nice pic! How about a flip of logic with the shot and go to a slate/bluish color phase or dark blue? Just a thought to tease ur eye - it definitely will be credited by a border/frame of some kind. Nice!
10/09/2002 10:43:39 PM · #15
to win on DPC? Second photo, but i would've done a horizonal composition instead of a vertical one.

Don't you know by now that if you put in an animal, a sunset, a teddy bear, a flower studio shot, your average score automatically go up? :) The second shot is better because it explains where the golden light came from.

Your score owuld've gotten higher ON HERE for the second photo. if you want a general good photo, take a horizonal composition, ignore the dark cloud above in the first photo, and it'll be great.

10/09/2002 10:48:52 PM · #16
BTW, i haven't submitted a photo that i have "cropped", including my violin submission which many people thought i cropped, funny. I only crop when i have to print using the right dimension. I just want my photo to look fine straight out of the camera with minimal processing in terms of dimension. Also, i don't want to get myself into thinking that "I can alwasy crop to make it better" because I'd like my composition to contain what i see when i press the shutter. That's my philosophy anyway. (and yes, every time i have to crop to remove uninteresting elements from my photo for printing, i am kicking myself for not doing it right the first place....)
10/09/2002 11:05:27 PM · #17
Roy I love the raw image as it came out of the camera. Hands down #1. I would have voted high on that one. The one you submitted is also nice and I did rate it high, but I still like #1 best.
Beautiful work!
10/10/2002 09:19:39 AM · #18
Thanks all for your thoughts - it's helpfull!!


paganini - I wouldn't kick yourself too much for cropping an image. For me, being able to easily crop and enlarge a portion of an image goes someway to making up for the fact that I can't afford a Digital SLR and therefor the choice of lenses. Shot #1 was pretty much on full zoom as it was. I do agree though that being able to crop easily with digital is no excuse for not getting a good composition in the first place. However, within the limitaions of most Digital cameras you just can't always get the composition you want - I would rather take a picture that I know is not perfect composition wise, but that I know I can gain a good image from by cropping out bits I don't like than not take the picture at all OR not crop it because that's not pure.

In this case, the swan was swimming across the lake so I had to be constantly moving to get the sun and reflection where I wanted it in relation to the swan. The shot was composed through the screen with the camera held right on the waters edge and at water level. So, I was crouched down to the water, moving along the bank with the swan, making sure I didn't get the camera wet, watching out that I didn't walk into a bush and trying to take a photo - there are some circumstances where you just can't get the image you imagine straight onto the camera.

Isn't choosing an aspect ratio for the picture and choosing which bits to crop out and which bits to leave in part of the skill in all this?
10/10/2002 10:18:15 AM · #19
Originally posted by lamedos:
Thanks all for your thoughts - it's helpfull!!

Isn't choosing an aspect ratio for the picture and choosing which bits to crop out and which bits to leave in part of the skill in all this?


I think it is -- in framing the photo in the first place you're "cropping" everything else you can see anyway. What I thry to develop in myself is the ability to look at a scene and mentally "see" the cropped image within it. Whether I shoot in tight or crop in later isn't as important to me as recognizing the picture wthin the scene.

I really like #1 because I like cloud pictures and you got a lot of detail/texture -- so hard when shooting into the sun! But #3 is a great example of what I'm talking about -- making it a shot of a swan with reflection, not a pretty sunset with a swan floating by...great job!
10/10/2002 03:08:07 PM · #20
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I think it is -- in framing the photo in the first place you're "cropping" everything else you can see anyway. What I thry to develop in myself is the ability to look at a scene and mentally "see" the cropped image within it. Whether I shoot in tight or crop in later isn't as important to me as recognizing the picture wthin the scene.



I like that - so much better put than I did.

If I had a top ten list of tips for beginners - this would be in it!!
10/10/2002 04:56:22 PM · #21
I absolutely 100% like the first one best. It's a stunning shot and I like the detail in the clouds that's cropped from 2.
I like 2 better than 3 too.
Excellent stuff.
Kavey
10/10/2002 06:09:28 PM · #22
I really like #2 as is, I think #3 is very nice, but I would like a tighter crop, reflection in half.
10/11/2002 12:29:46 AM · #23
Personally I would have voted #2 highest, (I liked the tighter shot, than 1 but not overly tight like 3. I also like the colors of 2 best.) I would have voted #1 next, though for me the clouds sort of washed out the picture, and #3 last. There is so much more to the others.

As you can see, other people felt differently. So what you really need to do is ask yourself, for whom you take pictures. If it is for yourself, then do what pleases you. If it is for a client, please the client, it's his/her money so earn it. If it is for the competition, and your desire is to win, go with the majority.
10/11/2002 04:11:45 AM · #24
I preferred shot number 1 by a long long way. The framing of shot number 2 is too rigid for my tastes. I can see what you were trying to do but I think you went in too close with it. Shot number 3 was an interesting excercise that has some success but loses an awful lot of the interest that's there in shot number 1.

I can really understand your thought processes around "will my shot be deemed to meed the challenge" - I feel the same each week. But I think we should all strive to submit our best overall photograph rather than letting our desire for a higher score dictate our choice of shot. If your original concept was good and fit the challenge then you should score well regardless.

Regarding cropping - Im with GeneralE on this. I regularly and deliberately include more in the frame than I intend to appear in the final photo. I try very hard to see what the final crop will be within the image I'm shooting. With the very limited capabilities of my camera I usually can't get the final shot I want right out of the camera. What Paganini suggests about getting what you want right out of the camera is certainly something to strive for but until my range of available lenses is greatly improved I'm not going to let it spoil my day if I can't do it. Until then I'll have to "see the image within the image" and crop later.

Besides - playing around with cropping is a lot of fun and is a great way to teach yourself about bolder, more interesting framing.

John
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