Are voters LOOKING at the images?

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

06/15/2005 10:27:37 AM · #1

This has probably been discussed numerous times, but there are a lot of new people here, so I'm going to bring it up. Feel free to hijack this thread if you can find a similar one in the archives.

Going back over the comments I have made, I notice a great disparity in scores between commentors and non-commentors on certain images. The images in question strike me as those that didn't catch my eye until I opened up the larger image and actually studied them.

Perhaps it's OK to vote high on an image that really catches one's eye. However, I find it irresponsible to and unfair to dock an image that doesn't show its true glory in the thumb.

This is just my appeal to voters to take the time and think about the consequenses of their voting.

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

06/15/2005 10:29:58 AM · #2

You can't vote on a photo by its thumbnail. You have to open the full size image to be able to add your vote.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

06/15/2005 10:31:51 AM · #3

You can't vote directly on the thumbs. You have to open the image. However, you don't have to wait for the image to load completely before selecting a score. So, indirectly some people could be voting without seeing the entire image. I hope not, but ....

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

06/15/2005 10:35:25 AM · #4

I know what greatandsmall means -it is tempting to just look at the thumbnails and click on the ones that stand out and then vote. The thumbnails that don't stand out tend to get overlooked and so NOT voted on. IMHO ( I know, I've been guilty of doing it in the past;))
And some of those images can be AMAZING, but not obvious in the thumbnail...

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 10:41:16.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

06/15/2005 10:39:00 AM · #5

IMO we should do away with the thmbnail view for images that have not been voted on. It provides a simple way to defeat the "randomized" presentation order, which in turn means that images that have attractive thumbs get more votes.

asitv

Canon EOS-80D

06/15/2005 10:42:31 AM · #6

Originally posted by kirbic:

I agree.. just provide a link for eac picture so that it forces the voter to see the image than just form a perception by looking at thumbs and vote selectively.

Ivo

06/15/2005 10:42:34 AM · #7

Originally posted by kirbic:

Great idea. Engage!

06/15/2005 10:44:32 AM · #8

Yes, Thanks for clarifying what I was getting at.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

06/15/2005 10:44:54 AM · #9

Forgot to say - the reason I tend to look at the Thumbnails is that I start voting by scrolling through the images. Then I place some votes, but then the screen keeps going back to the images I haven't voted on, even only after voting on say five images. I get so frustrated at seeing the same images that I do not want to vote on that I resort to the thumbnails...if that makes any sense?

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 10:45:23.

peterish

Nikon D90

06/15/2005 10:44:58 AM · #10

Also, we should get rid of the space above an image so that more of the submission will be shown when you first open the page. Sometimes people don't even scroll down to see the rest of the picture if it doesn't stand out to them.

KaDi

06/15/2005 10:52:45 AM · #11

And, while we're at it, <> could we add a pre-voting screen in which there are dim letters/numbers on a dark background and pale letters/numbers on a light background--voters would have to enter what they see in order to vote. If your monitor is super-badly-calibrated, you don't get to vote. <>

riot

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Helios 40-1 85mm f/1.5

06/15/2005 10:57:45 AM · #12

Originally posted by peterish:

Or just remove the top voting buttons, make sure they have to scroll to the comments box to vote - more tempting to comment that way too.

Edit: Doh, too slow...

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 10:59:06.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/15/2005 11:26:40 AM · #13

Glad it's not just me. These are the same issues I have with the voting screens.

All I can figure is that a lot of "non-commenters" are whizzing through the images and only voting on the ones that look good in the thumbs, without letting the image fully load. I have been guilty of this, myself, and am resolved to really look at every image before I vote.

Here are some examples of the images that prompted me to start this thread. In each instance I did not fully appreciate the photograph until I took the time to view it carefully.

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 11:28:17.

Beetle

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/15/2005 11:29:43 AM · #14

Originally posted by riot:

Or just remove the top voting buttons, make sure they have to scroll to the comments box to vote - more tempting to comment that way too.

I have asked for that several times, as I am sure that many dial up people click in their vote before they even get to see 5% of the full photo.

I'm also ready for a calibration check before voting - my darkness photo isn't doing very well, and I believe much of that is because you simply don't see half the details with a badly calibrated monitor.
Edited to add: "cherry picking" shouldn't be possible, we should be forced to vote in the random order.

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 11:30:52.

pmotta

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

06/15/2005 11:29:49 AM · #15

There is a way to vote just looking at thumbnails and I suspect this is also the reason why initial scores are often low; it is in fact possible to change your vote after voting, from the thumbnail view. What may happen is that someone could give all photos a 1, to be able to more quickly decide how to distribute real votes from the thumbnail view (giving a 1 to all photos would easily allow to recognize pictures still to be "voted").
To avoid this, and to avoid evaluations made just on the small miniatures, it should not be possible to change your score from the thumbnail view.

Artyste

Sony Ericsson W810i

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Pentax

06/15/2005 11:30:23 AM · #16

Originally posted by amber:

What are you doing selectively voting anyway? That's really not the spirit of these challenges.. I hate to hear people say "Images I don't want to vote on".. If they come up, vote on them.

Kirbic, I'm with you.. get rid of the thumbnails. Also, get rid of *any* way to go in and selectively choose an image during voting, until you've voted fully.

06/15/2005 11:32:34 AM · #17

Strongly agree with all of these points, especially the calibration test.

After all who would trust a food critic who didn't have taste buds?

RonBeam

Minolta DiMAGE 7

06/15/2005 11:35:09 AM · #18

Originally posted by KaDi:

I'm with Kirbic on this one. Ditch the thumbs.

Also ditch the voting scale at the top of the image. As one who often enters vertical format pics, I'd like to know that the bottom has been seen before a vote is cast.

It makes a big difference in images like my entry for "Broken"

Point well made with this example.

And, while we're at it, <> could we add a pre-voting screen in which there are dim letters/numbers on a dark background and pale letters/numbers on a light background--voters would have to enter what they see in order to vote. If your monitor is super-badly-calibrated, you don't get to vote. <>

KaDi

06/15/2005 11:45:26 AM · #19

I wonder if this thread could be moved to "Site Suggestions"
--having been properly hijacked, now.
:-)

06/15/2005 11:47:04 AM · #20

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by amber:
Forgot to say - the reason I tend to look at the Thumbnails is that I start voting by scrolling through the images. Then I place some votes, but then the screen keeps going back to the images I haven't voted on, even only after voting on say five images. I get so frustrated at seeing the same images that I do not want to vote on that I resort to the thumbnails...if that makes any sense?

What are you doing selectively voting anyway? That's really not the spirit of these challenges.. I hate to hear people say "Images I don't want to vote on".. If they come up, vote on them.

Kirbic, I'm with you.. get rid of the thumbnails. Also, get rid of *any* way to go in and selectively choose an image during voting, until you've voted fully.

And I hate to have people assume things without all the facts. On my FIRST view through the images I vote on the ones that 'grab' me...then I do a second viewing..if I want to pass on an image till later, that's what I'll do...if the images I pass on till the second viewing keep coming up in the scroll I will resort to the thumbs. If I don't have time to vote on all the images then I don't...the rule says you only have to vote on 20 %. I reguarly do way more than is required and I resent being told I don't act in the spirit of the challenge...I never give below a 4, I joined the critique club, I regulary give comments...so my conscience is clear..thanks a lot.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/15/2005 11:49:22 AM · #21

Originally posted by amber:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by amber:
Forgot to say - the reason I tend to look at the Thumbnails is that I start voting by scrolling through the images. Then I place some votes, but then the screen keeps going back to the images I haven't voted on, even only after voting on say five images. I get so frustrated at seeing the same images that I do not want to vote on that I resort to the thumbnails...if that makes any sense?

What are you doing selectively voting anyway? That's really not the spirit of these challenges.. I hate to hear people say "Images I don't want to vote on".. If they come up, vote on them.

Kirbic, I'm with you.. get rid of the thumbnails. Also, get rid of *any* way to go in and selectively choose an image during voting, until you've voted fully.

And I hate to have people assume things without all the facts. On my FIRST view through the images I vote on the ones that 'grab' me...then I do a second viewing..if I want to pass on an image till later, that's what I'll do...if the images I pass on till the second viewing keep coming up in the scroll I will resort to the thumbs. If I don't have time to vote on all the images then I don't...the rule says you only have to vote on 20 %. I reguarly do way more than is required and I resent being told I don't act in the spirit of the challenge...I never give below a 4, I joined the critique club, I regulary give comments...so my conscience is clear..thanks a lot.

Amber, I do that too. Sometimes there are images that I want to think about for a while, or that I don't feel qualified to give an opinion on. I'd rather skip it than score it unfairly.

Beetle

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/15/2005 11:52:24 AM · #22

Originally posted by amber:

.... On my FIRST view through the images I vote on the ones that 'grab' me...

The problem with that is that some photos are "grabbers" as thumbnails, occasionally even better than the full sized version.
However, very often a photo is so dull as thumbnail, but brilliant at the proper size, and you miss out on seeing and scoring those gems.

06/15/2005 11:54:08 AM · #23

Originally posted by Beetle:

Originally posted by amber:

.... On my FIRST view through the images I vote on the ones that 'grab' me...

The problem with that is that some photos are "grabbers" as thumbnails, occasionally even better than the full sized version.
However, very often a photo is so dull as thumbnail, but brilliant at the proper size, and you miss out on seeing and scoring those gems.

I was talking about the full images...

TooCool

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/15/2005 11:54:57 AM · #24

Originally posted by amber:

I get so frustrated at seeing the same images that I do not want to vote on that I resort to the thumbnails...if that makes any sense?

What doesn't make any sense to me is why some photographers works deserve to be voted on and some photographers works do not deserve to be voted on...

Originally posted by amber:

On my FIRST view through the images I vote on the ones that 'grab' me...then I do a second viewing..if I want to pass on an image till later, that's what I'll do...if the images I pass on till the second viewing keep coming up in the scroll I will resort to the thumbs. If I don't have time to vote on all the images then I don't...the rule says you only have to vote on 20 %.

But is it fair to only vote on the 20% that you like?

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 12:01:57.