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06/13/2005 12:37:37 AM · #1 |
I am pleased with how my entry did in the Framed challenge. I do have a question though...9 votes of 1, 2, 3. Every one of the 10 comments was favorable.
So would those that feel this photo deserved a 3 or less please tell me how and why you arrived at that conclusion - and why you did not leave a comment as to why you thought it was well below average.
Remember...from the rules, and I quote:
"(with "1" being a "bad" photo and a "10" being a "good" photo). "
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" If you feel a photograph deserves a vote of 1, 2 or 3, please include a comment with your vote explaining why you felt it deserved a "below average" score. "
I am not upset and promise to put the heads of the low voters on a pike for all to see - PM me if you wish to remain anonymous. I would like to better understand what you see, or don't see, in my photo.
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06/13/2005 12:46:37 AM · #2 |
Do not waste your breath. Low ballers have a battery of excuses for their low votes and most prefer to hide.
You did a very nice job here and considering the number of entries you did okay considering the stream of spoilers. I generally feel that these voters can not truly appreciate a beautiful image. They certainly enjoy the thrust of their votes. It gives them power where there is really none.
Message edited by author 2005-06-13 00:56:15. |
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06/13/2005 12:46:54 AM · #3 |
Some voters interpreted the challenge to mean that the subject had to be framed by a natural object. While I didn't take it to mean that, this is possibly one explaination.
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06/13/2005 12:49:09 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
Some voters interpreted the challenge to mean that the subject had to be framed by a natural object. While I didn't take it to mean that, this is possibly one explaination. |
Fine. I just want them to step up and say so. If i vote a 3 or less, for any reason, i say so. Sure, some take it with less enthusiasm than a glowing pat on the back and PM me, but so? That is part of the reason we are here - to learn and get comments.
Perhaps, just perhaps, there is a voter that is dyslexic and thinks 1 is good and 10 is bad...I'll call that my explanation and I can go to be happy!
Message edited by author 2005-06-13 00:49:33.
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06/13/2005 01:34:49 AM · #5 |
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06/13/2005 01:40:25 AM · #6 |
I suspect there is a group of voters that vote 3 and below on anything that's not tack sharp, thinking it's technically flawed. I see a correaltion, myself, between softness and number of really low scores, usually. That may have happened here. The face isn't all that sharp.
Robt.
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06/13/2005 04:58:20 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Do not waste your breath. Low ballers have a battery of excuses for their low votes and most prefer to hide.
You did a very nice job here and considering the number of entries you did okay considering the stream of spoilers. I generally feel that these voters can not truly appreciate a beautiful image. They certainly enjoy the thrust of their votes. It gives them power where there is really none. |
You summed it up perfectly ......
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06/13/2005 05:05:16 AM · #8 |
i have had 37 votes on my bird challenge so far and not 1 comment. I am sitting on 4.91 and would love some comments on what i am doing wrong. It is quite frustrating
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06/13/2005 05:50:09 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by SDW65:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Do not waste your breath. Low ballers have a battery of excuses for their low votes and most prefer to hide.
You did a very nice job here and considering the number of entries you did okay considering the stream of spoilers. I generally feel that these voters can not truly appreciate a beautiful image. They certainly enjoy the thrust of their votes. It gives them power where there is really none. |
You summed it up perfectly ...... |
Ditto...
I HAVE to say this - with the accepted high quality of work on this site there is absolutely NO reason why anyone should FEEL able to justify giving a 1, 2 or 3... |
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06/13/2005 06:00:23 AM · #10 |
Please don't take offence, I didn't vote and am just guessing but here goes.
First, unless you have contact with kids, to some they are just a noisy nuisance,and a great turn off.
Second, if they arn't child friendly, they think that anyone can take a pic of their own kid and think its great.
Generally I think the minority on this site are not interested in bettering themselves and the art of photography, they just enjoy knocking other peoples efforts into the ground.
Ps I love the pic, but feel it would have been a little better if taken from above, so emphasising the small child..
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06/13/2005 06:28:27 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by amber:
I HAVE to say this - with the accepted high quality of work on this site there is absolutely NO reason why anyone should FEEL able to justify giving a 1, 2 or 3... |
I can fully justify a 2 or 3 vote in some instances.... I have seen photos of this ilk, and so has everyone else. While it remains true that there are some absolutely stunning photos to be admired on this site, there are the occasional stinkers.
I am not saying that this is the case regarding this photo. I gave the photo an average score since I felt that is what it deserved. No offence meant to the person who started this thread, but one must consider that the 3 and under scores are significantly less than the 7 and above scores, and no one is asking anybody as to the reasons for those scores.
In essence, what I am saying is that from my personal perspective, the image did quite well, and I would not even bother trying to figure out why a very low percentage of people opted to give it a low score.... it's really not worth the aggravation.
Just a thought....
Ray
Message edited by author 2005-06-13 06:30:17. |
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06/13/2005 06:40:42 AM · #12 |
| Hahahahahahah! and if you vote please talk some sense! I just got feedback on how much the voter hate the 'cloning out of such a big area, ie the whole background..'! The joke is I do not even know what cloning is and every aspect of my pic is as taken. I suppose that's the way it is.... |
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06/13/2005 06:48:17 AM · #13 |
At least you got a comment;)
I can fully justify a 2 or 3 vote in some instances.... I have seen photos of this ilk, and so has everyone else. While it remains true that there are some absolutely stunning photos to be admired on this site, there are the occasional stinkers
The original poster isn't complaining about the 1-3's. He's complaining about the lack of comment that goes with them. A 7 say's 'good' image..a 1,2,3 says you took this with a blindfold on, using a pinhole camera...there is huge difference. |
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06/13/2005 08:05:53 AM · #14 |
I didn't voted (I cannot actually, I'm not a member...yet!), but let me comment on your pic anyway
It's a nice portrait, sure, but it isn't what I see as "naturally framed" but more like "artificially framed". I think you used a little too munch Neat, as the face looks too "plastic" to me. I don't mean OOF or soft focus, as the hair is sharp, but texture less.
I'd voted it on the 5-6 range.
Carlos.
Edit: I'm copying the comment on your pic too.
Message edited by author 2005-06-13 08:07:45. |
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06/13/2005 08:08:06 AM · #15 |
You forgot this part...which I thought helped to make the commenter's point.
Originally posted by RayEthier:
...but one must consider that the 3 and under scores are significantly less than the 7 and above scores, and no one is asking anybody as to the reasons for those scores. |
There can be a substantial number of high scores as well and we're not bent out of shape when comments aren't left for those.
DPC is loaded with threads about the subjects that are impacted here:
- the number of low (1-2-3) votes.
- the lack of comments.
- the lack of comments from low voters.
- hiding (using the bag) your name during voting/commenting.
- ugly PM's sent to people that left comments.
It's not required to give a comment at all. Not for 1-3's nor 7-10's. Yes, it is suggested, but not a rule.
I hope the originator of this thread gets some PM's to satisfy his curiosity for the low votes, but I wouldn't hold his breath if I were him.
Originally posted by amber:
At least you got a comment;)
I can fully justify a 2 or 3 vote in some instances.... I have seen photos of this ilk, and so has everyone else. While it remains true that there are some absolutely stunning photos to be admired on this site, there are the occasional stinkers
The original poster isn't complaining about the 1-3's. He's complaining about the lack of comment that goes with them. A 7 say's 'good' image..a 1,2,3 says you took this with a blindfold on, using a pinhole camera...there is huge difference. |
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06/13/2005 08:08:48 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by lentil:
i have had 37 votes on my bird challenge so far and not 1 comment. I am sitting on 4.91 and would love some comments on what i am doing wrong. It is quite frustrating |
You've failed to mention how many you have commented on.
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06/13/2005 08:14:29 AM · #17 |
DPC is loaded with threads about the subjects that are impacted here]
So it's an issue for a lot of people then.
How can you improve your skill and technique without comments? A low score means you've failed in those people's eye's. Common courtesy ( and I practice what I preach) would be to tell the person why. Whether it imapcts on your eventual score is irrelvant. |
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06/13/2005 08:23:21 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by amber:
How can you improve your skill and technique without comments? |
you can improve by commenting more and more, yourself. the more time you take to study other's images and comment on what you like, don't like, and what you observe, the more you will learn, and the more you will have to apply when making your own images.
you can improve by studying the ribbonning images and the other top-20 images from a challenge. look at what sets them apart from the others, then go out and try to emulate them.
one thing is for sure: no one has ever improved their photography significantly just from getting comments on challenge entries. |
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06/13/2005 08:30:21 AM · #19 |
It's funny that very often scores of 1, that are irrationally low, are complained about, and scores of 10, that are irrationally high, are not.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Every one of the 10 comments was favorable. |
Comments are nearly always positive, and rarely do they reflect on the overall score of the shot. I have many a low scoring shot with 100% positive comments. It's just the nature of DPC.
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06/13/2005 08:32:58 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
Originally posted by amber:
How can you improve your skill and technique without comments? |
you can improve by commenting more and more, yourself. the more time you take to study other's images and comment on what you like, don't like, and what you observe, the more you will learn, and the more you will have to apply when making your own images.
you can improve by studying the ribbonning images and the other top-20 images from a challenge. look at what sets them apart from the others, then go out and try to emulate them.
one thing is for sure: no one has ever improved their photography significantly just from getting comments on challenge entries. |
I've done all that - even joined the Critique Club...but when it comes to your own entry (I'm speaking generally) you are blind to a certain extent, if that makes sense. |
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06/13/2005 08:43:05 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by amber:
I've done all that - even joined the Critique Club...but when it comes to your own entry (I'm speaking generally) you are blind to a certain extent, if that makes sense. |
you're on the right track, but it takes patience. while i thought every image i've submitted should have finished higher, once the challenge is over, i can objectively step back, looking at the other entries above and below it, and conclude that the scoring accurately reflects how i connected with the voters. i then look at what made the top ones so much better than mine. then i go out and try to reshoot the challenge, applying what i learned.
a lot of getting where you want to be depends on how much time you can put into it. if you do set an objective of giving 3 comments for every one you get, you'll find yourself looking at a lot more images. or maybe setting an objective of commenting on 5% of a challenge (or maybe 100% of a challenge).
yes, you can be 'blinded', but that should only be temporary. at some point, you have to be able to look at your own work as your own worst critic...
;-) |
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06/13/2005 08:48:23 AM · #22 |
I think Skip makes a very valid point, and you drove it home even more with this...
Originally posted by amber:
...but when it comes to your own entry (I'm speaking generally) you are blind to a certain extent, if that makes sense. |
Personally, I fall into the same trap you mention amber more times than I care to admit. It's easy to fall in love (or least really, really like) the image you are posting for a challenge. Forget the rules. It IS hard to critique your own work subjectively.
I think it is this gift of sight that make the repeat ribbon winners rise to the top again and again. Of course photography skills are a primary key too! ;^) I wonder how much comments really mean to this top level of performers - really, honestly.
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06/13/2005 08:51:09 AM · #23 |
while i thought every image i've submitted should have finished higher, once the challenge is over, i can objectively step back, looking at the other entries above and below it, and conclude that the scoring accurately reflects how i connected with the voters
The only image of mine that thought should come higher was the lighting one. After that challenge I stopped getting serious about it. I put in a last minute one for granular that actually came higher - I had thought it would tank:)) So after that I haven't put as much effort or passion in...so I'm not talking about my own images per se...so perhaps I should just shut up? :))
Message edited by author 2005-06-13 08:58:30. |
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06/13/2005 08:52:38 AM · #24 |
The same thing happened to me. Your picture was VERY simular to mine and I got a higher vote. I don't understand it either.
 
Your subject had a better smile.
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06/13/2005 08:58:24 AM · #25 |
| I gave you a five. I thought that the use of neat image was a bit heavy. The girls sheeks look to be a bit waxy. with a crisp focus that didn't show the postprocessed smoothing this could have been a six or seven. I like the photo but felt that it was pretty average. |
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