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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> JMSELTZER is no expert?
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09/18/2002 10:42:36 AM · #1
Having read a recent thread entitled Martin Munn, somebody wrote:

'Jim Seltzer has a few nice photos but I would not call him an expert. The real experts are 'out there' with their books and publications. This is not a putdown just an observation.;-) '

There were a few other words directed at Mr Seltzer as well, but I wont go into that…

In response, and I don't know the guy personally, I'd like to say that consistently scoring high on a site like this, when the likes of myself AND MOST OTHERS rarely break the top 100, DOES make him an expert. Why, we all see what we like or don't, and apparently, we nearly all like Mr Seltzer's work – a lot by all accounts. We certainly don't all like mine. He doesn’t just have a few nice photos, he nearly always breaks the top 10, let alone the top 100 and, as far as I'm concerned, that makes his photos way above average. OK, so he hasn't written a book based around his latest portfolio, then again, most pro's haven't either. But, I'd be willing to bet that if we placed some of his work within a group of first class pro photographers and voted anonymously as we do here, jmsetzler would not finish last. For this reason, published or not, people who can take GOOD pictures are our biggest asset – how can we learn, and that's what I'm here for, if we blast the good guys for being just that…

Rant over…. I feel better now…
09/18/2002 10:49:51 AM · #2
OK, this is the rant forum, so it's fair enough... but let's try and stop singling people out to this extreme degree (ie. naming threads after them, etc.). Whether it's for complaints or even lots of praise, it's not the kind of atmosphere that's conducive to harmony.

There are LOTS of great photographers on this site who do experimental work and therefore rate inconsistently. They're just as great in my estimation as Setz :). And I know for a fact that there are some photos where even he didn't mind sacrificing a few votes just to try something new! Scoring high consistently is a sign of great talent, but it's not all this site is about.
09/18/2002 10:57:37 AM · #3
I figure I have things to learn from most people. Unlike a number of people I don't think that someone's photos have to be "better" than mine for them to be able to teach me something. Just because they aren't as strong at taking them as others might be, everyone can still see and appreciate and give a real viewers perspective on a photo. And for that reason I think I can learn from pretty much most people. I say most not all coz I exclude people who leave comments like You Suck!

I agree that I find the current naming of individuals to be lambasted and praised uncomfortable.
09/18/2002 11:00:40 AM · #4
Folks, I appreciate the comments but I would also not like to draw any additional attenion these days with threads like this. I thank all of you who like my photos... I also thank all of you who think I suck.


09/18/2002 11:27:40 AM · #5
Sorry JMS, I shouldn't have named names… But, I was quite wound up by what was being said and felt in this instance it was warranted.

I also agree that people don't have to be better to help – I always try, and I don't exactly top the polls.

I was perhaps a little rash with this rant, but I wrote on the spur of the moment, as ranters tend to do, and I didn't express myself properly. But, I also don't think we should attack somebody for doing it better. I know I've singled out one person here and I know we have a whole heap of good photographers here – sorry again… I think I have just learned something about making mistakes…
09/18/2002 11:31:48 AM · #6
It's ok... *I* know that there are quite a few photographers here who I admire as well. I'm dealing with some issues this week regarding this site and I don't want any extra accolades at the moment :)
09/19/2002 10:42:50 AM · #7
JOHN M. SETZLER IS A GOD!!!

FREE FOOD AND BEER AT HIS HOUSE!!!!!!!
09/19/2002 05:39:59 PM · #8
there are some excellent photographers on this site, but to call anyone an expert is pushing it in my opinion. i wouldn't call most professionals experts. there are so many different aspects of photography as well as different styles and areas of interest. most portrait photographers would not fair well as landscape photographers and vice versa. there is too much to learn. this is after all basically a amateur site, not that there is anything wrong with that. there is just a completely different level of photographers out there who truly are experts. we may occasionally produce images that look professional but the experts do it consistently and in much fewer shots than it would take most of us. also being a hobbyist photographer is much much different than having to make a living at it. you no longer have the final say on what you think is good. you have to answer to the person paying you which can give your creativity a sock in the throat at times. anyway i'm not trying to offend anyone i just don't want people to be mislead that we are a bunch of near proffessionals or experts on this site. i do have to say that setzler has a great start at someday becoming an expert. he is one of the few people that produce technically good shots that are very creative and also do well in the challenges.
09/19/2002 06:03:50 PM · #9
Originally posted by goodtimecharlee:
there are some excellent photographers on this site, but to call anyone an expert is pushing it in my opinion. i wouldn't call most professionals experts. there are so many different aspects of photography as well as different styles and areas of interest. most portrait photographers would not fair well as landscape photographers and vice versa. there is too much to learn. this is after all basically a amateur site, not that there is anything wrong with that. there is just a completely different level of photographers out there who truly are experts. we may occasionally produce images that look professional but the experts do it consistently and in much fewer shots than it would take most of us. also being a hobbyist photographer is much much different than having to make a living at it. you no longer have the final say on what you think is good. you have to answer to the person paying you which can give your creativity a sock in the throat at times. anyway i'm not trying to offend anyone i just don't want people to be mislead that we are a bunch of near proffessionals or experts on this site. i do have to say that setzler has a great start at someday becoming an expert. he is one of the few people that produce technically good shots that are very creative and also do well in the challenges.

The only thing I'd take you to task about is the idea that
experts or professionals do their good shots in much fewer
shots than 'we' do. This is almost exactly the opposite -
they take hundreds of shots to get one that is good - sometimes
thousands.

Most beginners, and especially with digital, could simply do better
by taking a whole lot more pictures, and being more selective about
which ones are good or not.


I think I typically take close to 200 shots per challenge - I wonder
how many other people take. and I mean 200 of the same thing,
not 200 completely different ideas.

My last holiday I think I took 500 shots, 20 of which I think are okay,
and maybe 1 or 2 are quite good.

I think Ansel Adam's is often quoted as saying he thought he took one
or two good pictures per year.

Shoot more - it's free!
09/19/2002 06:08:38 PM · #10
This place is better than a soap opera <gets popcorn to watch DPDrama>
09/19/2002 06:19:51 PM · #11
Hey, who's Jim Seltzer?
09/19/2002 06:41:29 PM · #12


I think I typically take close to 200 shots per challenge - I wonder
how many other people take. and I mean 200 of the same thing,
not 200 completely different ideas.

My last holiday I think I took 500 shots, 20 of which I think are okay,
and maybe 1 or 2 are quite good.

I think Ansel Adam's is often quoted as saying he thought he took one
or two good pictures per year.

Shoot more - it's free!


----

Thank you Gordon! There are definately expert photographers here. I hope to be one, I'm still learning but the wonderful support and feedback from other members here (some of them experts) will help me get there.

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/19/2002 6:40:12 PM.

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/19/2002 6:41:08 PM.
09/19/2002 06:42:38 PM · #13
Originally posted by mci:
Hey, who's Jim Seltzer?


i think he's a dalmation breeder ... Jim's Homepage
09/19/2002 06:46:22 PM · #14
Originally posted by spiderman:
Originally posted by mci:
[i]Hey, who's Jim Seltzer?


i think he's a dalmation breeder ... Jim's Homepage
[/i]

No, no, he's a second grader at Central School.
09/19/2002 07:28:29 PM · #15
I've been rather busy with my 3D life the past few days and just saw this thread and there is no way I can not put in my 2cents worth.

First, JOHN has NEVER once acted like he's some expert. He has offered newbies and some oldies help at ANY time they need it. He's NEVER had a big head or even acted as if he was better than anyone. He is the reason I never gave up. He would always say something encouraging to me so that I kept on. He is the one I thank for teaching me my camera and photography.

If anyone has issues with his winning or anything else then all I can say is...it's just that... YOUR jealous issue.




09/19/2002 09:11:49 PM · #16
Originally posted by kathleenm:
Originally posted by spiderman:
[i]Originally posted by mci:
[i]Hey, who's Jim Seltzer?

i think he's a dalmation breeder ... Jim's Homepage
[/i]

No, no, he's a second grader at Central School.[/i]

I swear I haven't laughed this hard in a while in front of a computer...that was funny...smart ass :) HAHAHAHAHA

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/19/2002 9:10:51 PM.
09/19/2002 10:06:43 PM · #17
i agree whole heartedly with this assessment.


Originally posted by Shiiizzzam:
I've been rather busy with my 3D life the past few days and just saw this thread and there is no way I can not put in my 2cents worth.

First, JOHN has NEVER once acted like he's some expert. He has offered newbies and some oldies help at ANY time they need it. He's NEVER had a big head or even acted as if he was better than anyone. He is the reason I never gave up. He would always say something encouraging to me so that I kept on. He is the one I thank for teaching me my camera and photography.

If anyone has issues with his winning or anything else then all I can say is...it's just that... YOUR jealous issue.






09/19/2002 11:25:33 PM · #18
~stops biting her lip~

And ONE more thing ! John didn't vote for himself.... hello
The members did...so get over it. Maybe make it a goal for yourself.

~whew~

ok that's a bit better

Now say your sorry and go take a decent photo and see if you can place this week



* This message has been edited by the author on 9/19/2002 11:24:32 PM.
09/20/2002 03:55:04 AM · #19
I guess the major problem here is where Jimmy get his hot nude models.

If he's married to it, we're jealous.

If he's professional, we're jealous.

If it's all random Seltzerness, we're jealous.

So tell us Jimmy, WHAT IS YOUR SECRET?

Bling!



* This message has been edited by the author on 9/20/2002 3:56:19 AM.
09/20/2002 11:11:27 AM · #20
wow. I can't believe you guys are butchering his name.

Its seTZLer not seLTZer.

Look at his profile //www.dpchallenge.com/profile.php?USER_ID=772

I actually didn't notice that the title was spelled wrong until the last few posts. If you are gonna talk about the guy, at the very least spell his name right.
09/20/2002 11:18:03 AM · #21
Originally posted by chariot:
wow. I can't believe you guys are butchering his name.

Its seTZLer not seLTZer.

Look at his profile //www.dpchallenge.com/profile.php?USER_ID=772

I actually didn't notice that the title was spelled wrong until the last few posts. If you are gonna talk about the guy, at the very least spell his name right.


hu·mor Pronunciation Key (hymr)
n.
The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could not see the humor of the situation.
That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical, incongruous

:-D
09/20/2002 11:28:43 AM · #22
It's humorous alright... brings back those excellent memories of elementary school :)
09/20/2002 11:29:22 AM · #23
...nevermind....


* This message has been edited by the author on 9/20/2002 1:14:40 PM.
09/20/2002 11:35:52 AM · #24
go ahead, you have all right to, seeing as its about you.
09/20/2002 03:29:51 PM · #25


Most beginners, and especially with digital, could simply do better
by taking a whole lot more pictures, and being more selective about
which ones are good or not.

Yes! I agree with you...


I think I typically take close to 200 shots per challenge - I wonder
how many other people take. and I mean 200 of the same thing,
not 200 completely different ideas.

Uau!!! Now I see why I don't cross the middle of the table! I just take a few units for challenge! :)

My last holiday I think I took 500 shots, 20 of which I think are okay,
and maybe 1 or 2 are quite good.


Shoot more - it's free!

Yes! I will try!



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