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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Autool is sitting back next week!
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09/15/2002 02:51:38 PM · #1
As most of you know I am just a country boy with no formal training in the arts. I have searched the web for a common sense approach to this negative space thing and still haven't got it through my thick skull. I have an entry but I am sure it misses the whole concept and I am equally positive the DP community will let me know during the week.

Due to my nil knowledge of negative space I am not going to use my normal way of rating pictures, and I will vote, at least for the most part, without comments or criticism during the next challenge. That way I will keep my ignorance more to myself. I feel this will be a learning experience for a lot of folks and there will be a big variety of comments. I hope they will be helpful to those of us that are having some degree of difficulty with the challenge. Or am I the only one? Oh! Oh! I hope not.

Keep Shoot'n

Autool
09/15/2002 03:08:28 PM · #2
Originally posted by autool:
I hope they will be helpful to those of us that are having some degree of difficulty with the challenge. Or am I the only one? Oh! Oh! I hope not.

Keep Shoot'n

Autool


I'm with you there Autool. I have no idea still what negative space is. I took some pictures of bird flying in the blue sky, but I don't think they'd do that well. So I may be sitting back with you, cause I don't want to take something rushed that may not be any good. So unless I get some big lightbulb revelation moment I'll be sitting this one out too.
09/15/2002 03:09:31 PM · #3
Dear Autool;

For what it's worht, I for one will be missing your usual comments.

I also have been studying examples of negative space during the week. This is the best example of negative space I have been able to locate during my search. I know it is a bit late for this to be much help but, better late than never, right?

I'm rather excited to see everyone's interpretation......


Shar
09/15/2002 03:16:33 PM · #4
Shar,
That is one great picture and I felt we would have to do something like that. Do you know of a vacant, smoky theater with a piano.
Thanks for the compliment and the help.
Autool
09/15/2002 03:33:31 PM · #5
I think you may be missing the point. This would be just a picture of a smokey room with a piano "without" the lighting from the high windows on the back of the piano and player. It's the lighting from the area surrounding the focal point of the picture that creates the mood. It's more than just a picture with a lot of dead space around it......the space is used to create part of the feeling of the entire photo.

I hope this makes sense......
09/15/2002 03:56:38 PM · #6
I think there will be a very very this definaition of Negitive space used on average.
09/15/2002 04:10:56 PM · #7
Shar,
I think I am getting it now, but I am also running out of time.
Thanks for the patience,
Autool
09/15/2002 04:32:56 PM · #8
You could email me what you have, and I could comment on it. I got some really good coaching on this one.
09/15/2002 04:35:42 PM · #9
Autool, I too, have a very thick head. Finally, my wife, (she has a degree in Art, and knows the subject well.) after shaking her head at every one of my ideas, finally taught me the "real" concept. It isn't about blank spaces, it just happens that negative space CAN be displayed that way. It's more in the idea of emphasis and how a non-subject can add emphasis to your subject, almost to the point where your non-subject "is the subject". It is all very confusing. My wife didn't want to teach me, but all my bad ideas "got to her". I don't blame her, I am thankful she didn't just "let me submit junk". I think I will still have a hard time scoring and commenting this week, please bear with me. Advance notice for all you that don't understand negative space. Just having empty areas unrelated to your subject...ain't gonna cut it for really high scores. Please, do your homework. Understand what the challenge is.
Thank you!

Autool - You have a good "eye" and good judgement. Do what you feel best. Swash
09/15/2002 06:14:05 PM · #10
Zeiss,
Thanks for the offer, but I wil pass this time as I onlyhave the topic I am entering and don't want to cause any rants.
Swash,
All of my family is trying to get me to try another angle but I don't feel comfortable with it so I am going with what I have and learn from next week.
Autool
09/15/2002 06:44:09 PM · #11
I was wondering about this topic, I personally chose a background with a little texture, and some highlights, not not just blank, and hopefully it will constrast my subject well.

But I was wondering how much detail can you have, and still have the space be negative? I have a photo of two men fishing in a river, in front of a soaring cliff face. It really make them seem small, and the wilderness vast. Is this nagetive space? It include water, land, cliffs, and sky. The first time I read the challenge description, this is what I thought of, did it change since it was first posted?

I think this will be the most challenging challenge yet, and I am really looking forward too it. It has lead to more photos I am really proud of, and I really did learn somethings in the shooting, and the decision making process. I some ways, I acheived just what I was after, but in others, it is completely new.

Originally posted by Swashbuckler:
Autool, I too, have a very thick head. Finally, my wife, (she has a degree in Art, and knows the subject well.) after shaking her head at every one of my ideas, finally taught me the "real" concept. It isn't about blank spaces, it just happens that negative space CAN be displayed that way. It's more in the idea of emphasis and how a non-subject can add emphasis to your subject, almost to the point where your non-subject "is the subject". It is all very confusing. My wife didn't want to teach me, but all my bad ideas "got to her". I don't blame her, I am thankful she didn't just "let me submit junk". I think I will still have a hard time scoring and commenting this week, please bear with me. Advance notice for all you that don't understand negative space. Just having empty areas unrelated to your subject...ain't gonna cut it for really high scores. Please, do your homework. Understand what the challenge is.
Thank you!

Autool - You have a good "eye" and good judgement. Do what you feel best. Swash


09/15/2002 06:50:19 PM · #12
As I understand it, negative space used properly, will enhance the subject of the photo. One example I read was to take a black & white image of a single object then cut out the object. What's left is negative space. In the case of this black & white example, good contrast would suggest good use of the negative space.

Although I have read much on the subject, I am still not convinced how my submission will be received. I was not going to enter anything, but couldn't sit it out and submitted one that I think the negative space enhanced the appeal of the subject.

I must admit that I had never heard of negative space until this past monday morning! C'mon Autool, I bet you have one that will do well.


* This message has been edited by the author on 9/15/2002 6:50:25 PM.
09/15/2002 06:54:10 PM · #13
I Wish.
09/15/2002 07:14:10 PM · #14
Yes, autool, or anyone else, enter something. I mean we aren't getting paid for our averages. Something that you think might flop could surprise you and go all the way. I mean it has happened before and it will happen again. You don't know how anything will be taken in these contests. We are here to learn. You can learn from failure as well as achievement.
09/15/2002 07:47:57 PM · #15
Autool;

Your photo called "between rides" is a good example of the use of negative space. Even though there is more than just space around the cowboy. In this photo the "space" (sky/land etc.) reaching into the background inhances the feeling of a lonely cowboy, without a horse, that has an agonizingly long walk ahead of him. The fact of him carrying the saddle suggests a mishap or accident or misfortune in his past.

I think you have a great handle on negative space. Maybe you just didn't know what to call it.

Shar
09/15/2002 08:03:01 PM · #16
Shar,
You are much too kind. Thanks for pointing out the negative space of "Between Rides." I thought about doing something similar to that, in a more modern sense, but was busy with reality this weekend. What I have entered is quite a lot off beat for me,(abstract might be the word). You will find my entry for F&V to be different for me too.
Autool
09/15/2002 08:27:26 PM · #17
I'm looking forward to the upcoming announcement for F&V. (Not because of an incredible score either. I'm barely above average.) I'll check you out first thing after mine. Abstract is my favorite.

For my negative space I chose a subject that traditionally hasn't fared too well on dpchallenge. We'll see how it goes. (if I say any more than that I will give it away.....)

Good luck...

Shar
09/15/2002 08:30:07 PM · #18
Okay, I'm still brand new to this site. I not only enjoy trying to take a respectable photo with my cheap digital camera (I'm a 35mm person), but I also enjoy voting on the photos. Since I'm new, however, I keep my comments to a minimum because I feel I'm not qualified to critique on the technical aspects of a digital photo. I'm one of those types of voters that rate high on a photo that grabs my attention and I have to look at it for awhile. Meaning, for me, a photograph should tell a story. I'm actually looking forward to seeing what comes up in the negative space challenge. Does any of this make sense?

Autool, when I look at voting results, I really look forward to finding your scoring method and was equally thrilled when I saw your comments on my first submit with F&V (my photo technically was HORRIBLE!) I will miss not seeing your comments on the current challenge.
09/15/2002 08:35:04 PM · #19
Originally posted by Swashbuckler:
... the "real" concept. It isn't about blank spaces, it just happens that negative space CAN be displayed that way. It's more in the idea of emphasis and how a non-subject can add emphasis to your subject, almost to the point where your non-subject "is the subject".

Yes!
Yes!
Yes!
I would like to thank you and your wife. This is the best definition of "negative space" I have seen posted here this week.

It's not about black and white. It's not about high contrast. It's not about a subject in a corner. It's about using space to define boundries around the subject. For this challenge we have been asked to make this space the "wow" of our photo's... not the subject.
09/15/2002 08:58:33 PM · #20
For all the hand-wringing about the meaning of "negative space", and for all the forum posters saying they won't be submitting this week, it is of interest to note that, as I write, 180 submissions are already in.

There are usually quite a few submitted late on Sunday, so we are heading for almost a record entry (we probably won't make the 219 for texture, but the 188 for pencil and 185 for Something Old might be overtaken tonight.)
09/15/2002 09:18:24 PM · #21
Originally posted by CLarson557:
Autool, when I look at voting results, I really look forward to finding your scoring method and was equally thrilled when I saw your comments on my first submit with F&V (my photo technically was HORRIBLE!) I will miss not seeing your comments on the current challenge.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on my scoring method and the best of luck to you in the F&V challenge.

Keep Shoot'n
Autool

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