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03/03/2005 01:41:51 PM · #1 |
Hi, sorry my first post has to be a grim reminder! As of 4 months ago I've jumped on the digital bandwagon from my Canon 35mm to my Canon 20d and it's been a smooth transition. I've been taking concert photography for the last 14 years with my trusty canon 35mm workhorses with no problems, but when deciding to try my 20d Major problems occurred. I won't drag out my tale of woe, but in a nutshell, if you take photos at concerts with fog machine use BEWARE! I'm always up front in the press area and am used to the FOG/fog juice leaving it's film coating on the lens/camera, not a real problem with my 35mm body, but I found out the hard way that it can wreak havoc on the digital bodies! After two gigs with my 20d the internal processor is fried! The canon tech said that the fog machines actually leave a coating of oil residue that not only coats your lens but seeps in your camera and will coat the inside of the camera as well-sensor/processor/mirror, he also mentioned all the 2nd hand smoke in the club isn't all too great for digital cameras to boot (his actual words were 'murder on the camera'). Unfortunately, OF COURSE, Canon's warranty doesn't cover this damage and I'm screwed as the cost in labor/parts would be near $875 as a conservative estimate, or in other words, might as well buy a new one.
When I told him about what I do he also mentioned that digital cameras can be susceptable to low-frequency distortion from mammoth subwoofers at the concerts should you be foolish enough to be near them, as an fyi.
I've used the 20d with supposedly sealed L-Glass both shows, I hope this helps others who take photos at fogged up clubs or concerts! As of now while I save up for another digital I'll be resorting back to the trusty ol electronic free 35mm |
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03/03/2005 02:10:13 PM · #2 |
Sorry to hear about your loss but as you know... the newer the technology the easier it breaks.. something to do with capitalism i believe.. you must be heart broken I know i would be if it happened to me but im usually on the stage rather than shooting the show from out front
again sorry to hear.. expensive lesson. |
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03/03/2005 02:12:50 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Filmotor:
The canon tech said that the fog machines actually leave a coating of oil residue that not only coats your lens but seeps in your camera and will coat the inside of the camera as well-sensor/processor/mirror, |
Think what that nasty crap does to your lungs! I like concerts, but if it's a small venue and they are using a fog machine other then CO2 I walk out.
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03/03/2005 02:22:11 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Filmotor:
When I told him about what I do he also mentioned that digital cameras can be susceptable to low-frequency distortion from mammoth subwoofers at the concerts should you be foolish enough to be near them, as an fyi. |
what kind of distortion ??
& how would that manifest ??
i think he must have been pulling your leg ..
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03/03/2005 02:34:54 PM · #5 |
Have you considered a scuba case?
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03/03/2005 02:41:22 PM · #6 |
I know it's big dollars, but a Canon rep told me last weekend that the 1D MkII and 1Ds MkII are both sealed and rated for torrential downpours (he said 7 inches of rain per hour), so it should work to keep out the antifreeze they use in those places, yes?
Bill
www.cloudspot.com |
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03/03/2005 02:41:49 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by ralphnev:
Originally posted by Filmotor:
When I told him about what I do he also mentioned that digital cameras can be susceptable to low-frequency distortion from mammoth subwoofers at the concerts should you be foolish enough to be near them, as an fyi. |
what kind of distortion ??
& how would that manifest ??
i think he must have been pulling your leg .. |
CF card.
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03/03/2005 03:00:13 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
what kind of distortion ??
& how would that manifest ??
i think he must have been pulling your leg .. |
CF card. [/quote]
no --
IF there was enough energy to disrupt a CF card there would be more than enough to make your camera go wonkers -- and it wouldn't manifest as 'distortion' - your camera would reset and/or fry --
MRI type magnetics might do that - but speakers - i don't thinkso ...
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03/03/2005 03:00:33 PM · #9 |
what kind of distortion ??
& how would that manifest ??
i think he must have been pulling your leg .. [/quote]
Actually I don't think he was pulling my leg, he did explain in his mega-technical terms and to be quite honest after he said my camera was screwed and he dropped the cost to repair on me I was in a complete catatonic daze and tuned out everything after hearing $875. I was essentially in a stupor as I thought that I only got to use my camera TWICE! All I can remember was he mentioned words like subsonic, vibrations, and then went into the nitty gritty of the camera guts.
Cloudspot, I WISH I could afford a mk! I know now that I was a bit naive in thinking that since the L-Glass was sealed that it would also seal out the smoke/oil/fog from my camera body as well, my big mistake! |
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03/03/2005 03:01:08 PM · #10 |
Hmmm well I've only shot a few major concerts .. and only one used a smoke machine. I never had problems even though I was standing in the pit leaning on the subwoofers. hahaha I actually have an inner ear thingy that makes me a wee bit deafer than the average person so I don't wear ear plugs. But apparently the effects on my camera are what should be worrying me. I've been considering developing some sort of plastic outer shell for my camera already. Maybe I'll make millions of dollars patenting the first ever moldable body shell!
*evil laughter* Muahahahahahaha
Message edited by author 2005-03-03 15:01:37. |
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03/03/2005 03:01:38 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
what kind of distortion ??
& how would that manifest ??
i think he must have been pulling your leg .. |
CF card. [/quote]
no --
IF there was enough energy to disrupt a CF card there would be more than enough to make your camera go wonkers -- and it wouldn't manifest as 'distortion' - your camera would reset and/or fry --
MRI type magnetics might do that - but speakers - i don't thinkso ...
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03/03/2005 03:04:26 PM · #12 |
Breathing the fog machine stuff is bad too. It's basically mineral oil and you know what happens if you drink that.
Unless you're constipated, the results can be unpleasant.
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03/03/2005 04:25:34 PM · #13 |
wouldn't - as mentioned - an underwater case suffice?
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Maybe I'll make millions of dollars patenting the first ever moldable body shell! |
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03/03/2005 04:31:32 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by soup:
wouldn't - as mentioned - an underwater case suffice?
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Maybe I'll make millions of dollars patenting the first ever moldable body shell! |
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No.
Underwater cases are rigid and well - dumb looking. So we're back to my million dollar idea! *more evil laughter* muahahahha |
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03/03/2005 05:30:40 PM · #15 |
Why not resort to the standby for all wet-weather photography? Tape some plastic bags around the camera, right up to the back of your sealed L glass... Or up to the filter if it's not sealed glass?
Looks kinda dorky, but heck, keeps the water out. You just have to watch out for condensation, and make sure you've got card space and battery life to last out what you want to do...
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03/03/2005 05:54:24 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by soup:
wouldn't - as mentioned - an underwater case suffice?
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Maybe I'll make millions of dollars patenting the first ever moldable body shell! |
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No.
Underwater cases are rigid and well - dumb looking. So we're back to my million dollar idea! *more evil laughter* muahahahha |
Actually when you are using an underwater case above water, overheating is an issue. I lost a secure digital card that way when on the day I got my underwater case (shooting in drizzle in a swampy area) and was lucky not to have fried my camera, of course I was outdoors in the summer in South Florida operating the camera continuously for about an hour. When it quit working I opened it up to see what was wrong and it was quite obvious. The camera wasn't quite too hot to touch, but it was close. oops. You should be fine if you turn your camera off periodically and let it cool, maybe use your conventional camera at intervals. Also, some cases have a lot of extra space in them which should help. Mine is made with little room inside.
If you are going to invent an above water waterproof shell, better put a cooling system in it.
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03/03/2005 05:57:23 PM · #17 |
Sorry to hear about your loss. As a Canon and Nikon owner I treat my SLR's like infants. Of course I have learned this the HARDEST WAY. Here are guidelines that you should follow for the Canon 20D's.
Operation Enviroment:
Working temperature range: 0 degrees C-40 C/32 degrees=104 degrees F.
Working humidity: -less than 85%.
Same rule applies to the battery. So if you charge the battery outside these temps, it may fry.
Stay away from SMOKERS, SILLY STRING, SPRAY PAINT, PAINT GUNS, RAIN, SNEEZING, ACTIVE KIDS, RADICAL TEMP DROPS. BAD NEIGHBORHOODS. CARBON MONOXIDE. PEOPLE ASKING TO SEE SAID CAMERA, OR SHOOT A PHOTO OF YOU.
Change out your neck or shoulder straps to generic brands. You don't want to advertise what you have. Carry around the neck ID when necessary.
Sorry these are the times we live in. And yes, these are all from past bad experiences.. |
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03/03/2005 06:02:36 PM · #18 |
| Filmotor, have you checked to see if the loss might be covered by your homeowner's insurance? |
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03/03/2005 06:03:43 PM · #19 |
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03/08/2005 04:13:02 PM · #20 |
I am admittedly more a lurker to this site than anything, but since I have 9 years of solid concert photography experience under my belt (have taken photos for many magazines and hired from bands/artists directly from Ani DiFranco to Rammstein) I thought I would chime in on this necessary topic.
First off I'd agree with just about everything that was mentioned here so far in this thread starting with filmotor's unfortunate demise. Believe me this is a VERY common ill-fated occurance that can be prevented! Up until mid-last year I worked in the service department for Calumet and we'd see these concert related casualties all the time (actually a huge rise lately because of the rise in digital camera sales and I'm assuming the naiveness in people thinking these very sensitive cameras are infallible).
ANY of the components of smoke, fog oil/juice, heat, humidity, condensation ALONE can cause major problems with the inner circuitry of your digital camera and your battery/power supply but when you have all of those detriments combined you're flat out asking for trouble pure and simple, PLUS depending on the show of course, you combine the possiblity of getting water/soda/beer/alcohol/bodily fluids of unknown origin thrown on you from the band or audience, getting your camera whacked around a bit by surrounding audience members/mosh-pit or the wonderful stage-divers that come from in front or behind you out of the blue, the joys are endless!
BUT, keep in mind these warning are only for certain types of shows. From personal experience the more raucous shows held in indoor club style general admission non-seated settings are where you will face most peril where hundreds or lower thousands of people provide plenty of opportunites to kill the camera. In these cases/situations, UNLESS you are being paid nice money for the shots AND HAVE INSURANCE, I would truly advise bringing your trusty old 35mm. Like the clubjuggle/a1275 mentioned INSURANCE is very key here. I've had so many insurance claims on my L lens' or my 10d body over the last several years and it was well worth it, I learned the hard way too by not having my gear insured the first several years and having soda get splashed on my 24-70L lens body, it wasn't a lot and I thought i had immediately rubbed it off but it got in somehow and the stickyness of it alone probably killed my autofocus and I could literally see the dried syrup runs inside my lensing!
Having said all the warnings, looking at the mass majority of the photos posted here of concert events are on the 'safer-saner-tame' side so not all of these warnings would really apply. Hanging out in the front row of a 'geriatric' concert is vastly different than attempting to snap decent shots at a Marilyn Manson show while not getting crushed to death in the front row. Shows at seated concerts, open air-outdoor areas, etc. are your somewhat safer bets for bringing the digital, otherwise unless you have the insurance, etc. or are doing this for well paid editorial work, it isn't worth taking the digital to have a few snapshot mementos that you really won't be able to do much with after the fact (the ill-bred notion that seems to be common of being able to blow the photos up and sell them is actually quite illegal if you don't have an actual agreement with the artist).
My two cents on the topic off the top of my head! :)
Message edited by author 2005-03-08 16:15:45. |
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03/08/2005 04:32:15 PM · #21 |
Filmotor,
Sorry to hear about the loss dude. You may try to sell the old broken one and use that money to pay for part of the new one. Without insurance, there are very few options (unless of course it came up stolen at your house and your homeowner's covered it, but that would be illegal).
BN |
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03/08/2005 05:03:52 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by bamanerd:
Filmotor,
Sorry to hear about the loss dude. You may try to sell the old broken one and use that money to pay for part of the new one. Without insurance, there are very few options (unless of course it came up stolen at your house and your homeowner's covered it, but that would be illegal).
BN |
thats why i love dpc...
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03/08/2005 06:47:43 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by bamanerd:
Filmotor,
Sorry to hear about the loss dude. You may try to sell the old broken one and use that money to pay for part of the new one. Without insurance, there are very few options (unless of course it came up stolen at your house and your homeowner's covered it, but that would be illegal).
BN |
Homeowners may cover it anyway. Our homeowners insurance covers loss or damage to my photography equipment anywhere that I have it.
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03/08/2005 07:12:46 PM · #24 |
Thanks for sharing the story... should hopefully save a few cameras in the future. I had an incident at an outdoor concert back in october that cause my camera to freak out after standing a bit too close to the speakers. After about 10 minutes of fruitless panic the camera just suddenly came back to life as if nothing had happened... never had a problem since... but I'll never bring my camera that close to the loudspeakers again.
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03/08/2005 07:15:03 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by lhall:
Homeowners may cover it anyway. Our homeowners insurance covers loss or damage to my photography equipment anywhere that I have it. |
Not sure that would apply if you are using the equipment for professional purposes. If you are an amateur, doing it for fun, it probably would.
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