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01/17/2005 01:49:03 PM · #1 |
Couldn't find a similar thread. Just something to think about.
DO YOU THINK 'HAVING AN EYE' FOR PHOTOGRAPHY/ART IS INBORN OR CAN IT BE TAUGHT/LEARNED?
Discuss... :-)
Edit: Added "/Learned" :-)
Message edited by author 2005-01-17 14:17:34.
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01/17/2005 01:52:29 PM · #2 |
Maybe not taught, but certainly learned :)
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01/17/2005 01:54:22 PM · #3 |
I was taught, but I wasn't completely inept to begin with. I have a background in art, but photography was new to me a few years ago. I had a fantastic photographer who shared a similar style show me how to compose effectively and what to look for. The mechanics I've basically been pulling out of my arse.
:-) |
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01/17/2005 01:55:12 PM · #4 |
While having an artistic eye is something I think you are born with, I think that in terms of photography it can be taught more easily than in other forms of arts. I can not paint or draw. I have tried over and over, it isn't happening and never will. There was absolutly no improvement in skill.
With photography, while I still flounder on the fringes of mediocrity, my photos are improving and I know for sure that I can see things and create images now that I could not have years ago. In 5 years, I'll be laughing at the images I'm making today I think.
Some people are just born gifted in what they do, the Mozart and Van Gogh types, but for the rest of us, I think photography does offer a way to improve ourselves artistically, even if we never become world-renowned photographers. Everyone can get better at photography.
Except my father. |
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01/17/2005 02:00:42 PM · #5 |
hey RSCORP, have you ever studied drawing? The actual techniques, form, function, light? Or just went for it and sucked? LOL If you haven't properly studied it, I'd say don't give up. The eye which a photographer uses is the same an artist uses...you're learning to see things in a photographic sense, now you need to learn to see them from a drawing perspective..they're different but similar.
:-) |
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01/17/2005 02:01:34 PM · #6 |
No I do not belive it can be taught.
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01/17/2005 02:13:22 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
No I do not belive it can be taught. |
I don't believe it can be taught to some people, just as some people can't be taught to cook.
I think some don't have to be taught, it comes as natural as sex. Others, some of whom may have shown no promise whatsoever when they first picked up a camera, indeed have the aptitude and the will to learn and will become great if they should wish to pursue this field.
Hell some folks have to be taught how to have sex.
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01/17/2005 02:13:27 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by rscorp:
I can not paint or draw. I have tried over and over, it isn't happening and never will. There was absolutly no improvement in skill.
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Have you read Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain? My drawing improved a lot from it.
Almost every skill can be taught to be improved. Some people though have natural ability (genes, memes) that put them beyond what can be taught. NLPers say that any skill one person can another can replicate if they use the proper thought pattern. I don't think that's realistic but it is an empowering belief system.
Message edited by author 2005-01-17 14:15:21.
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01/17/2005 02:15:15 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by kdkaboom:
Maybe not taught, but certainly learned :) |
Well phrased. I think it can be taught, but it's highly dependent upon the skill of the teacher and the determination of the student. |
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01/17/2005 02:15:59 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by dsb_mac:
Have you read Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain? My drawing improved a lot from it.
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I have, but I can't figure out how to take pictures upside down. :-) But there's probably an optical format for that....
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01/17/2005 02:18:13 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
I have, but I can't figure out how to take pictures upside down. :-) But there's probably an optical format for that.... |
Just turn the camera upside down.
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01/17/2005 02:22:08 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by dsb_mac:
Have you read Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain? My drawing improved a lot from it.
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I have, but I can't figure out how to take pictures upside down. :-) But there's probably an optical format for that.... |
There are other ways to engage your right side. It's a transferable skill I'm sure. So if you practice whilst drawing you can use it while photographing. It's just a technique to form and realize that thought pattern -you don't need to see everything upside down after you acquired the skill. You see everything upside down anyway! (your brain flips it for you) ; )
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01/17/2005 02:24:28 PM · #13 |
I disagree. There are many elements that can indeed be taught. It takes work and dedication. As a perfect example:
This is an early shot from ClubJuggle. In a word- snapshot. And not even a good snapshot at that. (Sorry Terry. :) )
Terry worked very hard over the next few years. He went shooting with different people, and really has worked at seeing what they see. I've personally watched him go from "What is that show me" to seeing the same thing I see and in many cases catching it better than I did.
I don't think anyone can argue that he has not seriously progressed as a photographer in his time at DPC. Most of this has been learned.
A million bucks worth of talent is useless without a million bucks of desire behind it.
Clara
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01/17/2005 02:30:58 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by dsb_mac:
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by dsb_mac:
Have you read Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain? My drawing improved a lot from it.
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I have, but I can't figure out how to take pictures upside down. :-) But there's probably an optical format for that.... |
There are other ways to engage your right side. It's a transferable skill I'm sure. So if you practice whilst drawing you can use it while photographing. It's just a technique to form and realize that thought pattern -you don't need to see everything upside down after you acquired the skill. You see everything upside down anyway! (your brain flips it for you) ; ) |
Betty Edwards did all aspiring artists a big favor when she wrote this book. I give it to my friends who say "I'd like to draw, but can't even draw a straight line."
Neither can I but figure that's what rulers are for.
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01/17/2005 02:35:22 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
hey RSCORP, have you ever studied drawing? The actual techniques, form, function, light? Or just went for it and sucked? LOL If you haven't properly studied it, I'd say don't give up. The eye which a photographer uses is the same an artist uses...you're learning to see things in a photographic sense, now you need to learn to see them from a drawing perspective..they're different but similar.
:-) |
Went for it and SUUUUUUUUUUUCKED. But maybe I'll have to take a class now that I'm older. The last time I had any training was in high school, and I just remember my teacher shaking her head and sighing. (Much like the voters at DPC viewing my photos)
I'll have to pick up a copy of that book too, and if that doesn't get me thinking with my artistic side of the brain, maybe I'll drive a nail into the analytical side and see if that forces the issue.
Message edited by author 2005-01-17 14:40:06. |
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01/17/2005 02:40:22 PM · #16 |
Art is aproached as some mystic cult that only some people are allowed to enter. If we approached reading and writting the same way we would live in a society where only about ten percent of the population was literate.
Imaging in first grade our teachers who taught us to read, encouraged us to express our deepest feelings, without worrying how to spell, or what a letter was, just make it up however you want. Be creative. This is the way most people are taught that they can't draw.
In college I took quite a few Visual Design courses. No one was allowed to choose what they drew for the first couple of months. We were taught how to communicate visually: how to make a line move forward or back; how and when to blend shade or crosshatch. Over and over we were told that this was not an attempt to foster our creatvity, but to give us the tools to get an idea across visually.
Most of us can do basic math because we were taught to. The fact that I can't do with those tools what someone like Steven Hawking can, does not mean math isn't teachable, just that some people have a greater facility with a given tool set.
Anyone can learn to draw, or shoot pictures. While there are only a few greats in any generation, anyone who is willing to put in the time and pratice can get good enough to be pretty darn good. |
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01/17/2005 02:47:56 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
...my friends who say "I'd like to draw, but can't even draw a straight line."
Neither can I but figure that's what rulers are for. |
You could ask your friend, what kind of line he can draw. He or she may not have a ready-made answer for this and take it as an ecouragement to find out.
It's highly likely that he can draw a kind of line no one else can.
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01/17/2005 02:51:02 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by sfalice:
...my friends who say "I'd like to draw, but can't even draw a straight line."
Neither can I but figure that's what rulers are for. |
You could ask your friend, what kind of line he can draw. He or she may not have a ready-made answer for this and take it as an ecouragement to find out.
It's highly likely that he can draw a kind of line no one else can. |
mmm, a unique style of line drawing?
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01/17/2005 02:52:03 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by dsb_mac:
There are other ways to engage your right side. It's a transferable skill I'm sure. So if you practice whilst drawing you can use it while photographing. It's just a technique to form and realize that thought pattern -you don't need to see everything upside down after you acquired the skill. You see everything upside down anyway! (your brain flips it for you) ; ) |
Nicely stated. In fact, when I saw this thread the first thing I thought of was Betty Edwards' books--I own both "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" and "Drawing on the Artist Within." Give my score in Arch_II it's probably time to get them down and dust them off. =]
As for what can be taught I agree with most here. Anything can be taught to someone well enough to make them competent. So the swimmer doesn't drown, the cook doesn't starve, and the family photographer doesn't behead their kin.
Teaching adults, however, is a different matter. Adult trainers are taught that all one can do as a teacher is prepare, bring opportunities for the learner, and be open to the needs of the student--the willingness to learn and the effort to do so is what the student brings. (You know the old saw about horses and water, right?)
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01/17/2005 02:53:04 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
live in a society where only about ten percent of the population was literate.
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I live in Alabama.
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01/17/2005 02:54:06 PM · #21 |
Great book, my mom gave it to me when I was in junior high school.
Drawing is probably way more technical than most people realize.
But this is about photography specifically, my original statement stands, I do believe you can teach someone to "see" a photograph before you even take it. |
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01/17/2005 02:54:17 PM · #22 |
I think the groundwork for it can be taught, but the actual 'seeing' can not. We all look at things differently, and it shows in our photography.
We can be tought the mechanics of the camera. When we know what our cameras are capable of, we can use that knowledge to achieve our inner vision. We can be taught compositional skills, wich is closer to 'seeing', but not exactly. When we understand composition, we can learn how to make images that have more visual impact. We can be taught photoshop skills to change what we actually saw into something that we want to see.
We can NOT be taught which direction to point the camera and when to do it. Knowing what to photograph is the innate part of the process. You can learn the camera and good composition and great photoshop skills. None of these will tell you what to photograph and when to do it. Your inner artist will tell you that. This inner artist can learn some things though. He's a child until you develop him into a mentor. There are a few processes that you can try to help develop the artist...
1. Make a committment to create art.
2. Spend the required time and effort to understand all the elements of photographic composition and WHY they are described as 'rules' and how they impact the image.
3. Study images that appeal to you and figure WRITE DOWN what it is that makes them appealing.
4. Study images that do NOT appeal to you and WRITE DOWN what it is that makes them unappealing.
Your inner artist is like a pre-school child. If the teacher shows up to teach every day, the child will absorb things. If the teacher shows up once a week, the child may absorb things, but without the repetitive teaching every day, the retention may be weak.
Item #1 is the key.
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01/17/2005 02:55:04 PM · #23 |
say for instance a pencil sketch made with only with one single line. the pencil doesn't leave the paper until the sketch is done. a line doesn't have to be straight.
Originally posted by jonpink:
mmm, a unique style of line drawing? |
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01/17/2005 02:59:41 PM · #24 |
Anything that can be done can be taught and learned -- provided the student (and teacher) have enough interest and intention to carry it through to completion. Some have more talent than others in some areas, that talent equates to speed of learning, not to the ability to learn.
Anyone can learn anything.
David
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01/17/2005 03:02:30 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
Anything that can be done can be taught and learned -- provided the student (and teacher) have enough interest and intention to carry it through to completion. Some have more talent than others in some areas, that talent equates to speed of learning, not to the ability to learn.
Anyone can learn anything.
David |
This is true, but I think the question was can it be taught? I don't think someone else could teach me. I think self teaching is the key here.
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