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12/04/2004 01:01:15 AM · #1 |
replying to a comment from my other Thread but was going way off topic so i moved it because i needed to vent...thanks
Originally posted by Beetle:
You have a real flair for this. Plus I think it helps when you know your subject well. Great job! |
i agree, on my trip i was also asked to take shots of my friends sister and her husband, with me bieng so shy i just cant moderate people that i dont know well, i feel silly so we didnt take many shots and i barely got anything workable, not to mention they are shy people too..anyways i agree with your comment and i really need to work on my "people skills"
oh yeah tonight i went to see a friends daughter sing at the mall with her class and there were alot of people and i didnt get any good shots because i was too scared to get in there to a decent shooting position but if i am at a concert i will knock you over to get to where i need to be..or when i was a bartending i was fine ....what the hell is wrong with me? i think i just need to be in my element or something
i avoid small conversation with people i somewhat know.if i see an aquaintance at a store or something i will duck and run just to avoid conversation...i am like those people on the commercials with a social disorder or something. i miss out on alot of opportunities in photography and in life because i have some serious deep seeded issues and it sucks... if i had not had some drinks i probably wouldnt even have even wrote all this nonsense
people always think i am a snob or whatever because i dont talk to them i just dont have anything to say..
this is the story of my life
kat |
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12/04/2004 01:14:52 AM · #2 |
| I have a similar problem. I dont really like talking to people due mostly to shyness and when I'm out taking pictures of people I panic, rush the shot, or dont take any opportunities or risks to get the shot and then go home cursing at myself for not doing better. I dont know if it is because I dont want the confrontation that I assume will take place if I am 'caught' taking pictures or what. I've photographed a few events and when I had a reason to be there and taking pictures beyond for my own personal judgement I felt a little better. I've had a few people approach me and ask to have their photo taken or posed for me when they have seen me point my camera at them and that has certainly helped with my confidence toward shooting people. I think it is a fear that can be overcome with lots and lots of practice. That said, I still prefer shooting animals, they're more accomodating and dont whine as much. |
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12/04/2004 01:22:19 AM · #3 |
A lot of people go through the same thing on one level or another. Fear of judgement maybe? Very few people plod along in life with absolute courage. True extroverts are rare and they're the ones you usually see performing in one way or another.
Most people don't give themselves enough credit, and kind of assume that other people know more than them or can do things better than them. Fact is, the vast majority of people in this entire country that own a camera would be thrilled to death if they could take pictures as good as you.
As far as photography goes, it's like anything else. The more you do it, the more comfortable and confident you become. The first time I had to make a sales pitch, I thought I was going to have my first heart-attack at 30 years old.
In short, you sound pretty normal to me. |
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12/04/2004 01:41:10 AM · #4 |
I can relate to both of you very well. I'm in the same boat. Maybe it's because we're creative types, introspective? I always feel anxious when I'm shooting someone. When shooting a model, I started making lists of the poses I wanted to capture so that I could have it for reference. It was good to have something to look at in case I got flustered or nervous and forgot what I wanted to capture. I'm getting better with time and experience. What helped me the most, however, was spending about 10-15 minutes before the shoot going over the poses with the model, demonstrating what the lights sound like when they discharge, making sure the model was warm, had something to drink, etc. It's busy work that helps me burn through most of the anxiety I feel. I think it also helps prepare the model.
Talking to people is still my downfall. I worry that people's reactions will be negative - that they will laugh at me or get offended. When I find myself following these trains of thought, however, I have to regroup and start over. I need to remind myself that no one has, in fact, ever laughed at me or become offended. People have said no, but I can only think of one occasion where someone was downright rude to me while I was shooting - and she was a relative.
As for shooting in places like malls or auditoriums, I stay low in the aisles and move around frequently. If you're only crouched next to someone for a shot or two, I can't imagine someone minding. If you were in the same spot for 30 minutes and your camera was making a lot of noise, you might get a comment from someone. But, hey, you'll probably never see the person again, right?
Anyway, you're not alone and there's nothing wrong with you. Confidence does indeed come with practice and experience. You're an excellent photographer. On days when you feel fabulous and confident, go out and get all the people pictures you can. When you're feeling more reserved, shoot animals, still lifes, or landscapes. Just keep shooting. Don't talk yourself out of it.
Heather |
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12/04/2004 02:14:52 AM · #5 |
Been there done that as well, recently I went to a brunch/awards type ceremony for one of those heart walk type things. Thinking that my wife was going to get up to receive her award I threw my Pro1 in my pocket.
We got there (I found out my wife was friends with the person who set the whole thing up) she asked the girl if it would be alright to take pictures and she said please do. I got to walkin around and started bumping into some high end people (way out of my league) CEO's from local companies, newscasters that I see on TV every night etc... I just kinda weirded out and never pulled the cam out of my pocket.
What really sux is that the only pictures from the event were taken by the gal who hosted the thing on one of the green cardboard cameras you pick up in the notion section of the drugstore.
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12/04/2004 02:47:00 AM · #6 |
sorry came in without reading threads properly.
have no experience in this department.
Message edited by author 2004-12-05 04:06:33. |
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12/04/2004 03:21:04 AM · #7 |
Hi, I hope I am not disturbing your thread but I would like to say I feel for you riotspyne and others here that have similar problems or obstacles. Without going into detail I have the same problem. I was exposed to some chemicals about 5 years or so ago and it did a number on me. A once outgoing person, loved talking to people [strangers or friend], has been reduced to a person with Panic Disorders, Panic Attacks, and Anxiety. I have to live with it everyday not knowing when they may hit me because mine seem to have no rhyme nor reason, they can hit me out of no where. I don’t talk as much, go out as much, and forget being in a crowd of people. I just turned down a photo shoot planed for this Saturday because of my situation. ‘riotspyne’ and others I wish the best for all of you.
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12/04/2004 04:36:52 AM · #8 |
When were all at school, anything that was different from the "norm" was picked open, and highlighted by all around.
What ever those differences however innocuous the event, someone would use this as the but of a joke. (And weather we would like to admit this, most of us joined in at some stage or other)
However, reflect on how you perceive others today, do you mock or joke about them, or do you accept people for who they are and what they do. We might notice things, a person, with funny hair, or unusual clothes, or a camera, or wonder why they are carrying around a six foot tripod, when they only have a tiny point and shoot camera.
But on the whole we accept things as how they are.
If we do that, then don't most other people.
I remember an outtake of the TV show the Incredible Hulk, with the hulk running through a genuine street, the cameras hidden so that no one knew it was a TV program.
So there we have a 7 foot green man wearing only a pair of tatty trousers, running down the street. And what happened. - Nothing, hardly anyone gave it a second glance.
I must lurn too spellll
Message edited by author 2004-12-04 04:40:39. |
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12/04/2004 04:47:43 AM · #9 |
| My camera is a weapon that I flash around at every possible opportunity! It makes crowds part and people in office buildings where they work appologize if they get in your way when they belong and you don't. If you can make yourself believe, you will look like you are supposed to be there! Just don't worry about what others think. If you LOOK like you belong, you must! |
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12/04/2004 06:03:01 AM · #10 |
| It happens also to me, but it depends on my mood... sometimes you find that people like to be shooted after they leave their initial unconfidence |
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12/04/2004 04:05:36 PM · #11 |
I think everyone has been there at one point or another. Myself? Being a late bloomer (of sorts) I was an easy target for those needing to place someone lower than themselves in the social pecking order resulting from cramming a lot of kids together in one school building while giving them no way to exercise their individuality.
I spent a lot of time blaming a lot of things. It took me a long time to realize being on the receiving end of the actions of children was a lot less introverting than the beating I was giving myself mentally. I majored in math, but I can not count the number of times I have talked myself out of doing something I really wanted to do, or to quit doing something I was enjoying, simply because of what I imagined would result from it -- or 'thought' others were thinking about what I was doing.
I suppose that exposes I pretty pathetic picture of me -- but I consider myself as I grew up to be pretty pathetic -- so maybe it's not all that inaccurate. It took a long time for me to realize I was doing myself in -- but there is help out there.
No, not that kind of help. ;) You don't need anyone but yourself to deal with introversion -- which is good since that is all a true introvert has. :p
I found that I just needed to stop basing my actions on what I thought was going on -- and base them instead on what I could see happening. Read the paper, listen to rumors or any number of other 'reports' of what is going on around me and they paint a pretty grim view of the world. But if I only act on what I can see -- actually see, not imagine or evaluate from what others have said with such great 'authority' -- there are a lot fewer reasons to prevent myself from doing what I want to do ... and I very rarely find anyone else who will even think what I am doing is all that out of place, let alone have anyone try to stop me. They are too concerned about what I might do if they did. :)
As an example: I moved to St. Louis for a few months a decade or so ago. I was told repeatedly, both before I left and while I was there, to not go into East St. Louis -- "You'll won't come out alive". I ended up living across the river in IL, a few blocks south of E. STL. Now, I like to walk at night -- late at night -- it gives me time to think. I often walked thru E. STL and I found, when I looked for myself, the people living there to be quite friendly -- at any time of day or night. In fact, the only time I was treated badly at all was by the local uniforms that made up the police force. They even made a point to let me 'in' on how dangerous the place was by telling me all about what goes on there -- even when I could look and see they were lying.
It is a fairly scary world we paint around ourselves, and it keeps us from looking at it too closely. But it is not the reality of the scene. Sure, there are some things in life that are truly scary, but we do not need others to tell us they are there, they will make themselves quite obvious to our eyes.
The only thing that can stop you from trying, is you -- so look first! You'll see the world in a different light -- and your photography will benefit as well (not that it needs my advice). :D
David
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12/04/2004 04:45:43 PM · #12 |
| just wanted to thank everyone for your replies and advice |
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12/04/2004 05:54:14 PM · #13 |
I thought I was the only one with this kind of anxiety disorder. I really can't speak to anyone face to face. When I do I look around afraid to look into peoples eyes. I didn't hear anyone speak of themselves being that bad. I have worked in the same studio for over a year and still feel nervous speaking with other employees.
I also have a problem with assumption. If someone I know doesn't say hello to me, or etc, I feel I've done something wrong. Or perhaps that they're mad about something.
I also have a problem shooting those people who seem confused by my posing. Or are having trouble acting out my instructions. I avoid the 'sales station' when they are shots I didn't 'love'. I am constantly worried that they will want new shots, or that the shots I did will not be liked.
I find myself mumbling explanations for jokes when people don't get them. Hell, I don't even like asking my boss to use the restroom.
My anxiety is also very unique.. I'm not worried about cancer, but leprosy scares the hell out of me. Go figure eh?
I have serious body tremors, yet never blur a shot.. Weird eh? I guess the camera (use to be guitars etc.) is my safe zone.
I also think I count too much of the opinions of others... If someone bashes me hard enough I'll start to agree.. This site is a great example, I never enter a shot I dislike or hate, nor do I post them... but as soon as the dogs come out I start seeing the 4's and comments refering to their dislike and all of a sudden I hate it.. Find all sorts of stuff wrong that I liked before. I think that comes from my youth and being a 'nerdy guy'. I think it's hard to find greatness in yourself when people are pointing out the faults. Especially when it's happened your whole life.
Alot of people say we are ahead of the game because we acknowledge the problem and can see it.. similar to any addiction. All we really have is an addiction to rejection. I know it's true for me. It's subconciously this 'what will i have to improve if they all love it' sort of thing. Or, 'If I try and talk to them and they reject me I'll know' as where before you didn't know.
I think all in all we are embarassed to be who we are, in fear of who we are is not what they want. or that we'll be judged for who we are and start to question if we really are who we think we are. Then you start to forget who you really are and end up doing things to please other people. I am guilty of this.
It's not like I'm not special,, My mommy told me so:P
I think what I'm trying to say (and it's easier said than done) is be you regardless. If someone doesn't like you for you, they are not worthy of your effort. Who cares if the model looks at you funny, if they knew any more than you they would be where you are at and wouldn't need you. We are all artists and this worlds needs us. They don't always understand the need, or acknowledge it but let us all quit. I really don't think Ansel Adams was how people saw him when he was alive. It wasn't until he was dead that people started listening and trying to understand. He probably thought the way we did,, that he sucked and people hated him. How else are you going to find all those awesome landscapes.. He didn't find them hangin' out with his peeps' that's for sure. So think about it, if you weren't so scared about everything would you still be doing what you do? Sort of a catch 22 if you ask me.. Anyway, good luck on overcoming your own personal demons..
Joe
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12/04/2004 06:20:39 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by magicshutter:
thought I was the only one with this kind of anxiety disorder. I really can't speak to anyone face to face. When I do I look around afraid to look into peoples eyes. I didn't hear anyone speak of themselves being that bad. I have worked in the same studio for over a year and still feel nervous speaking with other employees.
I think all in all we are embarassed to be who we are, in fear of who we are is not what they want. or that we'll be judged for who we are and start to question if we really are who we think we are. Then you start to forget who you really are and end up doing things to please other people. I am guilty of this.
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this pretty much sums it up for me too
i have not been able to look people in the eyes when i talk to them for as long as i can remember, when i talk to people i fidget with things so i dont have to look at them...
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12/04/2004 06:26:44 PM · #15 |
It has really moved me reading these and similar past posts. I am so warmed by the fact that this community allows for such honest, brave and forthright searching and speaking. I suffer my share of many of the things discussed here and I think that the fact that there is a sharing here of what makes us people AND photographers is what makes DPC our "2nd home". Thank you all for your posts.
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12/04/2004 06:36:27 PM · #16 |
I'm not as shy as I used to be but I'm still pretty self-concious when I'm taking pictures in public. I shoot and run, for fear of someone wondering what that "weirdo with the camera" is doing. I rarely take the time to think about the shot, exposure, composition, etc., I'm too busy worrrying about other people. I'd never be able to be a wedding/event photographer, even if I was at all good enough, with an arsenal of gear; I think it takes a more outgoing personality than I posess. I guess we all have our little hang-ups. Nice to see I'm not alone.
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12/04/2004 07:51:38 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by riotspyne:
i avoid small conversation with people i somewhat know.if i see an aquaintance at a store or something i will duck and run just to avoid conversation...i am like those people on the commercials with a social disorder or something. i miss out on alot of opportunities in photography and in life because i have some serious deep seeded issues and it sucks... if i had not had some drinks i probably wouldnt even have even wrote all this nonsense
this is the story of my life
kat |
I wish I had seen this thread earlier.
Kat, I could have written the above quote word for freakin' word, except for the drinks part, because I don't drink. When I went to the shrink about it she didn't help very much so I stopped going to her. So i'm still in the same boat. I can also add that if I'm about to walk out of my apartment and I hear a neighbor coming, or one opening their door, I duck back in my apartment until they are gone.
This really sucks in life, but in photography it sucks because one of my interests in photography is street photography. I really love candid street shots, but it is VERY difficult to do when you have this condition. (I know it's difficult even if you don't have an anxiety disorder too) Kind of funny though, because when I was in Thailand, and the harrassers got to me I had no problem whipping out my camera and shooting them. Taking the picture of the homeless guy for the poverty challenge was difficult too, but for different reasons.
I've had so many great ideas (at least what I thought might have been great ideas) for various challenges, but they always involve people and I end up not doing it, because I'm afraid to ask someone to help me out.
I'm pushing 40 now and I'm finally learning to accept this, instead of trying to change. You all might want to check out this book., it's our manifesto. There is nothing wrong with you Kat, or any of us.
Mark
Message edited by author 2004-12-04 19:55:00.
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12/04/2004 08:17:21 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Mark of SRQ:
Originally posted by riotspyne:
i avoid small conversation with people i somewhat know.if i see an aquaintance at a store or something i will duck and run just to avoid conversation...i am like those people on the commercials with a social disorder or something. i miss out on alot of opportunities in photography and in life because i have some serious deep seeded issues and it sucks... if i had not had some drinks i probably wouldnt even have even wrote all this nonsense
this is the story of my life
kat |
I wish I had seen this thread earlier.
Kat, I could have written the above quote word for freakin' word, except for the drinks part, because I don't drink. When I went to the shrink about it she didn't help very much so I stopped going to her. So i'm still in the same boat. I can also add that if I'm about to walk out of my apartment and I hear a neighbor coming, or one opening their door, I duck back in my apartment until they are gone.
This really sucks in life, but in photography it sucks because one of my interests in photography is street photography. I really love candid street shots, but it is VERY difficult to do when you have this condition. (I know it's difficult even if you don't have an anxiety disorder too) Kind of funny though, because when I was in Thailand, and the harrassers got to me I had no problem whipping out my camera and shooting them. Taking the picture of the homeless guy for the poverty challenge was difficult too, but for different reasons.
I've had so many great ideas (at least what I thought might have been great ideas) for various challenges, but they always involve people and I end up not doing it, because I'm afraid to ask someone to help me out.
I'm pushing 40 now and I'm finally learning to accept this, instead of trying to change. You all might want to check out this book., it's our manifesto. There is nothing wrong with you Kat, or any of us.
Mark |
As one of the participators in this thread and these issues, thank you, Mark, for that book reference. Now I know what I am buying with my Barnes & Noble gift certificate I just got. Thank you! (It is so nice to know we aren't the only ones.)
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12/04/2004 08:35:48 PM · #19 |
riotspyne, I have the same problem. I was out today and this guy came walking up behind me and I got really nervous like he was gonna steal my camera, I feel this way alot, somtimes I wont even take my camera out because I'm afraid I will be mugged. Hell I don't even live in a bad neiborhood. It seems like I am really paronoid. Unless it is in a very public place I am always worried. I won't go out to the bar because I afraid somthing bad will happen and I will get in a fight. If that happens I will lose my job, no matter who starts it. So I don't know what to do. It has even gone to the point were my wife and I fight about going out. I like to keep to myself and she like to be around lots of people. If you ever find a cure let me know.
Travis
Message edited by author 2004-12-04 20:42:59.
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12/04/2004 08:49:49 PM · #20 |
You're welcome Kylie. I hope more people see this thread. And Travis, we don't need a cure. Check out my post above, with my book recommendation.
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12/04/2004 09:05:18 PM · #21 |
Wow Travis, you changed your original post a lot since I posted the above reply. Originally you just had the last sentence about you and your wife. All that other stuff you added seems a little different than what the rest of us are experiencing. The paranoia and stuff. Sort of similar, but different. The book I recommended probably doesn't cover that. I'm not saying you shouldn't have posted it, just that it makes what I said about checking out the book not make as much sense now. If that makes sense.
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12/04/2004 10:17:36 PM · #22 |
yeah, I did change it. Thought I might as well go all out and tell you everything.
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12/04/2004 10:33:41 PM · #23 |
I'm not good at small talk or talking to people I don't know. Always have been. I've gotten mad at myself about it and I've tried to do things about it like taking a public speaking class in highschool (God, I don't ever want to do that again - the class or highschool). I'll throw myself into things that force me to interact with people, then I'll crawl back into my shell. I'm also sure people think I'm aloof or a snob because I don't say hi to someone when I pass them unless I'm sure they've noticed me and would feel even more awkward if I didn't say anything.
Carrying a camera in public seems to make this worst - for some reason people seemed compelled to gravitate over to me, see what I'm doing, make the odd comment. All the while I'm chanting in my mind "I'm not here, I'm invisible, pay no attention to the man with the camera"
I find myself making plans for photo trips - for instance I'd like to go shoot the huge star in front of the Bob Bullock Museum for the landmark challenge - but I'll find excuse after excuse to back out because if I do go I'll be self conscious the whole time I'm out there with people walking by.
My wife's family reunions are nerve racking, even after 11 years of marriage and finally knowing most of the extended family. The camera seems to have the opposite effect there which is handy. Either they don't want their photo taken so they'll shy away or if they do come up, I can raise it up and take a picture of something and they'll leave me alone.
Message edited by author 2004-12-04 22:39:24. |
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12/05/2004 02:27:10 AM · #24 |
Hi to all of you. Please know that you are not alone in this. I always thought about myself as an introvert who adjusted very well to come across as an extrovert. I just had to cope to survive. However after I lost my wife in 1999, I just collapsed. Anxiety and panic attacks ruined me. Suicide was a great consideration in those times because I had no control and no warning of what was coming my way. Eventually I closed my practice but continued to die a little eveyday. Then I took a deliberate decision to radically change my life, call it run away from it all. This landed me in Korea where I have been ever since. In 6 months I stopped taking any medication, in 12 months I started going out and now, 3 years later I have an almost normal life. Still want to run away from crouds but love going into the crouds. Still an introvert, maybe more than ever before, but gained a great reputation as a lecturer and teacher. And after almost 30 years I've taken up a camara again.
So, why this long story? Because I want to emphasise HOPE. I want to share that you are truely not alone out there. We must know we are a brotherhood of people who are so different yet so much the same. For me, going through the painful process of uprooting, sacrificing my seeing my grandchildren in a sense took my eyes of me and my suffering. Now I see life again, as if for the first time. Yip, and I met a new soul mate, against all odds. Someone who cares and to be cared for.
Live your life to the full, focus on what's important.... Today, your family.....! Learn to accept what you can not change. Forget yesterday, it's gone. Nothing you can do can ever change yesterday. And tomorrow, well, tomorrow may never be and if it comes, may in any event not be controlled by you. Focus on today and remember, Never, ever regret anything...... that is a real killer.
May you also find peace.... |
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12/05/2004 08:54:59 AM · #25 |
Katrina (and everyone else with similar circumstances):
There is NOTHING 'wrong' with you...you likely suffer from social anxiety disorder which is extremely common, and highly treatable (with and/or without therapy and/or medication). I see adolescents with the same symptoms and fears every day, sometimes manifesting themselves as benignly as test anxiety, but other times in such a way that it affects their ability to function in a normal high school setting. My own husband has suffered with social anxiety disorder for almost his entire life, but was only recently diagnosed. With medication and therapy, it is more controllable now. This website has a lot of information that some of you might find interesting or useful. You have the support of the millions who suffer as you do...along with your DPC 'family." Just know that you aren't weird, or crazy, or alone. :o)
PS...gibun - please accept my condolences on the loss of your beloved wife. Your story of hope is very inspirational to us all.
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