Need Advise: Best Beginner Digital or 35 mm Camera

Nikon MF 180mm f/2.8 ED AIS

11/09/2004 12:09:55 AM · #1

As it happens every year about this time, my class of introductory students ask for advise on picking out a new camera. I teach photography at San Francisco State part time. I give them the run down on features to look for, but in all truth I do not know the introductory market.

Please give me your advise on the best digital or 35MM cameras in the price ranges.
Below $300
$300-500
$ 500-800

I know the DSLR and Pro markets, but I would really like some input on the consumer to prosumer market.

Thank You very much in advance.
Adam

mcmurma

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

11/09/2004 12:28:37 AM · #2

IMO, it does not matter so much about brand, megapixels, digital or film or any of that other stuff. It all depends on what they want to use the camera for. (It's a tired answer, but it's still true.)

For those that want to explore photography as a hobby, they should get a camera with full manual capabilities (not all have it). Then take the time to evaluate the cameras full manual controls while still in the store... how does the manual focus operate (some are much better than others), and how do you set the shutter speed and aperture?

If they just want snapshots then literally any pocket camera will do.

11/09/2004 12:32:11 AM · #3

I know, I know, that is the speech I give every year! I just need to find something to recommend in the price gaps. If you have had good luck with a consumer camera, Please add your two cents.

11/09/2004 12:32:50 AM · #4

my camera is a really good one - being my very bias oppinion
Sony DSC-P73
Australia dollars = $450-$500, u can convert it

Features
Normal Mode - just point and shoot
Macros - excellent for flowers but not bugs - my olympus has a better macro setting and focus for that
Night mode - person and scenic
Portrait - alright - but don't use it
Landscape - scenic and is good
Beach - yeh take pictures at a beach
Manual Controls - manual shutter speed upto 1/1000

can do pretty much anything you wanna and use

3x Optical zoom & 4.1 Megapixels

perfect and a good stepping stone to a dsl
can also attach add on lenses and filters if you buy a lens adapter but i don't have one so yeh

downside - the prices of the memory sticks are not cheap
good - nice attractive camera and of course can accept an underwater mount which - yep you guest it I don't have :(

jst stick with the major brands - can't go wrong there
sony, olympus, canon, kodak & fujitsu

Message edited by author 2004-11-09 00:33:53.

11/09/2004 12:37:46 AM · #5

If it were me, I would suggest buying a used manual 35mm camera. Learning to use that makes everything else simple. I'm a big fan of the Pentax K-1000 for this very reason. It's built like a tank and you can buy them on Ebay with a 50mm lens pretty cheap these days.

11/09/2004 12:41:58 AM · #6

I must get my head out of the F5 35MM cloud it usually stays in. Hey john, thanks. The kids are just to tempted with full auto. How you doing... Get published yet?

adam

Message edited by author 2004-11-09 00:43:57.

11/09/2004 12:42:40 AM · #7

Oops... I missed the comment about 'new' cameras....

The Canon Elan 7 series (whatever the current model is) sells for $299 without a lens. There is also the Rebel series that is about $100 cheaper but also more limited. Do your students a favor and don't suggest less than a fully functional camera. A couple of the best film SLR cameras that are fully functional are:

Canon EOS Elan 7N
Nikon N80

Both of these cameras can be outfitted with a decentl lens for less than $100. The 50mm f/1.8 lenses are cheap and they force a student to consider composition more closely than a zoom lens will.

11/09/2004 12:44:10 AM · #8

Originally posted by ajschmidt:

I must get my head out of the F5 35MM cloud it usually stays in.

That's definitely a nice camera but too much for a beginner :) Don't direct them towards something that may collect dust if they don't enjoy photography. Either of those two new cameras I listed won't set them back too far and they can use them as simple point and shoot cameras in the future if they don't pursue photography with more interest.

11/09/2004 12:46:27 AM · #9

Originally posted by ajschmidt:

I must get my head out of the F5 35MM cloud it usually stays in. Hey john, thanks. The kids are just to tempted with full auto. How you doing... Get published yet?

adam

The only things I get published are the weekly sports stuff I do for my local newspaper. To me, that doesn't really 'count' as being published. Technically, it counts but it doesn't come with the prestige of somethign like a magazine cover or a feature photo in a magazine article. I don't really pursue enough of that type of photography to spend much time thinking about it. I do intend to pursue a slightly more commercial path in 2005.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

11/09/2004 12:47:11 AM · #10

Kids are looking for a cam that the fam could buy for xmass. At school they get D100s and F100s.

jimmythefish

Canon EOS-10D

11/09/2004 12:49:54 AM · #11

I agree with John. An SLR is the best way to learn about photography. If you can't afford a digital SLR (the Rebel is getting cheap, by the way) film is the way to go. A point-and-shoot digital doesn't respond to aperture changes the way an SLR does. The depth of field is way larger at a given aperture. The Pentax K1000 is a good option, as is the Canon AE-1 and lots of others out there. My girlfriend has a Minolta XG-M and a decent 50mm and her photos are spectacular. She makes fun of me and my digital nonsense.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/09/2004 12:51:30 AM · #12

Originally posted by ajschmidt:

Kids are looking for a cam that the fam could buy for xmass. At school they get D100s and F100s.

Those cams both put your students in a higher price bracket than the ones I listed, but if that is what they can get, then they are in good shape. I still think that learning basic photography is better when started with a rig that requires they learn exposure rather than havning the camera do it for them :)

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

11/09/2004 12:52:26 AM · #13

If you don't need a long zoom I'd look at something along the lines of the Canon A60/70/80 series (or the current versions) ... I think they have both full auto and manual capabilities. Olympus Stulus series has (I think) fewer manual controls but a water/splash-resistant housing.

11/09/2004 12:54:05 AM · #14

I have to step in .....

recommed digital ___________________
there cheaper to run

but this is not only the future of photography but has hit mainstream of photography and i hardly know anyone who doesn't have or not planning on buying a digital camera

analog is old and well im 18 and yeh i tell you what there after - the newest coolest gadget out there and well yeh that be a digital camera

the old form of photography is dying out cause of the fact
- can't view before you print
- can't see results as soon as there happen
- cost a lot of money to print
- takes a long time to take 30 pictures then have to wait for them to get developed to see the results
- takes longer to evolve your photograpy skills
- most major companys have already ceased developing film or in the near future will do so

recommend digital cause it lets you learn quickly and is also something you would like to be seen with (cool factor) but most importantly you can expand the camera capabilitys if you choose to and well they can participate on this site if they choose to do so

Message edited by author 2004-11-09 01:04:55.

11/09/2004 12:54:14 AM · #15

I have a ae-1 back in the closet somewhere. The "first" CPU powered camera. Man, I take aperture priority for granted now. I am just afraid to send them off to ebay. I have had countless problems with used gear through a reputable dealer.

11/09/2004 12:56:33 AM · #16

Originally posted by ajschmidt:

You may be interested in my EXPOSURE tutorial. It has been used in classroom environments before and it's free. If you are interested in taking a look at it, send me an email to john.setzler@gmail.com and I'll send it out to you.

11/09/2004 01:00:30 AM · #17

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

I have to step in .....

recommed digital ___________________
there cheaper to run

but this is not only the future of photography but has hit mainstream of photography and i hardly know anyone who doesn't have or not planning on buying a digital camera

analog is old and well im 18 and yeh i tell you what there after - the newest coolest gadget out there and well yeh that be a digital camera

the old form of photography is dying out cause of the fact
- can't view before you print
- can't see results as soon as there happen
- cost a lot of money to print
- takes a long time to take 30 pictures then have to wait for them to get developed to see the results
- takes longer to evolve your photograpy skills
- most major companys have already ceased developing film or in the near future will do so

recommend digital cause it lets you learn quickly and is also something you would like to be seen with (cool factor)

I work for the AP full time, and digital is NOT replacing film in 90% of the industry. Digital has found a niche in News and Press but not Art or Fashion. Hate to tell you youngans that industry moves very slow., but it dose. I know digital's advantages, but I also know the industry.

The D100s and F100s are used for school projects and belong to SFSU. The kids are looking for a sub 500 digital to work with. Consumer grade is fine.

Adam

Tanveerhawk

Fujifilm FinePix S9500

11/09/2004 01:02:19 AM · #18

fuji finepix f5000 for $280 will be just fine....

11/09/2004 01:03:36 AM · #19

What are the course topics in your 'introduction' class?

11/09/2004 01:07:44 AM · #20

Sent you a email. Exposure, Film selection, developing, digital dark room, scanning, color space, color grading, hand dodge and burn in the enlarger, news, 120 format, digital hasselblad introduction (I use my own H1D), printing, lenses, DOF, and the whole 9 yards. Plus some cinematography on 16mm.

Adam

11/09/2004 01:11:54 AM · #21

ok - what about digital in the public arena - like for snapshoots and family outings ?

really depends on what your teaching - if your teaching art and fashion photography go with the industry but if it just for family stuff and occassional experimentation or if your teaching news and press photography then digital it is

& by the way where i come from might be evolving a bit quicker because kodak have ceased development of film in this country and polaroid has gone bust or something like that havn't they?

Message edited by author 2004-11-09 01:12:38.

11/09/2004 01:12:00 AM · #22

Originally posted by Tanveerhawk:

fuji finepix f5000 for $280 will be just fine....

THANK YOU TANVEERHAWK That is great. Just googled the 5000. I never thought that a sub $300 would have a 10x zoom and many manual controls. 3.1 MP is not bad either. Thank you very much. You found me something that will be almost perfect for most of the class.

Thanks so much,
Adam

11/09/2004 01:17:23 AM · #23

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

Kodak is still going very strong on the film side. I was in Sydney two weeks ago and bought a bunch of kodak iso 50 135-36 film. You are right about the snap shot market.

Tanveerhawk

Fujifilm FinePix S9500

11/09/2004 01:21:28 AM · #24

o, thats pleasure, i m also trying to have that f5000,and will through off sony mavica .

have a good class forever.