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08/07/2002 12:00:52 AM · #1 |
I wonder if it would be feasible to add some sort of indicator on the vote page for a photographer who is under a certain age? It seems that we have a group of younger photographers now and it may be useful when commenting on a photo to know this in order to tailor a comment into something more easily digestible to a young person....
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08/07/2002 12:08:05 AM · #2 |
that would uneaven then playing feild. I can hang w/ the older peeps anyways :)
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08/07/2002 12:09:14 AM · #3 |
how would it uneven the playing field? do you think people would vote differently based on age?
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08/07/2002 12:09:40 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I wonder if it would be feasible to add some sort of indicator on the vote page for a photographer who is under a certain age? It seems that we have a group of younger photographers now and it may be useful when commenting on a photo to know this in order to tailor a comment into something more easily digestible to a young person....
I think that is a great idea. I would never intentionally be hurtful to anyone on this site but, some comments are just not easy to take initially. The last thing I want to do is discourage a young photographer.
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08/07/2002 12:11:01 AM · #5 |
I wouldn't want to discourage *anyone*, but If I know i am dealing with someone under a certain age, I would not use terms that may be more techincal...
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08/07/2002 12:12:52 AM · #6 |
as being "young" - 20, I can see where most people would give more points to the younger person even if the same exact photo was taken by an older and (as the cliche goes) wiser person.
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08/07/2002 12:33:09 AM · #7 |
| I'm an 18 year old participant I don't mind if I don't place in the top three; I just would like comments on what I'm doing wrong (and what I'm doing right). |
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08/07/2002 12:35:41 AM · #8 |
I think that currently there is an informal system of supervised use of this site by children, ie. last time this came up, the children's parents described the way they limit their children's participation. I remember some parents saying they don't let their children read the forums, and one mother said she votes on any photos that are too adult before letting her child vote on the rest. I'm sure that most parents read the comments along with their children and explain the technical issues to them. As long as this is happening, I don't think the site itself needs to be altered to accommodate the younger members, because many people would definitely have concerns that it would threaten the level playing field that we have.
If a change was made, I would prefer there to be a separate challenge each week for children under, say, 14? |
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08/07/2002 12:37:45 AM · #9 |
What happens when people who are over 80 start saying that they shouldn't compete with everyone else? And how could we possibly police ages?
Drew |
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08/07/2002 12:42:03 AM · #10 |
Maybe at some point, if there are enough younger participants, we could have a 16 and under award category or something...
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08/07/2002 01:44:19 AM · #11 |
I believe that true art does not favor age, for a 5 year old could do just as well as a 45 year old, and vies versa. I think for those who are more skilled with technical terms and photographic knowledge, should remember their audience when commenting and realize that the majority of the users on this site, don’t know what the rules of photography are, weather they are 10 or 90 ( witch includes me, even though I’ve been shooting for 20 years). So with that we should all be mindful to use terms that all skill levels should understand, and if technical terms are to be used then an explanation should follow. I also feel that parents should play a major role when it comes to the content their children view on the internet and should view the photos before the child votes as to decide for themselves what is or is not questionable material. So with all that gibberish said, I don’t feel that we should have to segregate the site to accommodate age groups because when it comes down to it, creativity has no boundaries.
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08/07/2002 01:57:03 AM · #12 |
| Hey John, this is a great train of thought, and I'm in my own little world here, but let me throw this into the mix. I am working with quite a hand full of "kids" and young adults - (i know you are referring to kids under....14 or so) My kids are all between 15 and 23. but let me say that they understand the real world pretty accurately and putting them into a separate category would cause them to loose interest, because they like to see how they compare in a real world setting. As far as the "tastefully done nudes" they do understand "art". But there are kids on this sight as young as age 4 who compete on a weekly basis. (and they actually do pretty well sometimes). It would be beneficial, in my opinion to know who the "very young" members are so we can perhaps guide them accordingly. I'd love to here other thoughts on this. |
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08/07/2002 04:28:09 AM · #13 |
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/7/2002 4:30:28 AM. |
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08/07/2002 04:49:22 AM · #14 |
Jmsetzler and I discussed this online briefly this evening. Here is my thinking.
This thread originated because my daughter, 9.5 years old is very excited about this site, and a sometime contributor. I was frustrated at the tone of some of the comments she received. Although her photo is not blue ribbon material, it is something that she is proud of. As she keeps taking pictures and learning from this site, her pictures will get better.
I want her picture to be considered in the same category/class as everyone else's picture. I'm not proposing a separate class of photographs for young people (or old, for that matter).
My objective is to support the young people who are interested now in photography, and who, if we encourage them, might make it a lifelong passion.
Let's develop a scheme to identify the photographer as a "youth".
Since it is tougher for a kid to take (even constructive) criticism, some accompanying encouragement might help temper an otherwise harsh commentary.
For example, my daughter's entry this week received the following (poorly written) criticism: "totally unimaginative is there a negative rating?"
An adult might be annoyed or troubled by the above comment. A child might just drop his/her camera and lose all interest in taking pictures.
Can our community be sensitive to the age of the photographer? Can we agree to score and comment on photos as honestly as we would otherwise, but to structure our comments to accommodate the sensibilities of the young?
As a community of photographers, I hope we will strive to inspire the young photographer toward a lifetime of photography, instead of turning him/her off with thoughtless, unconstructive comments.
sjgleah |
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08/07/2002 04:50:52 AM · #15 |
I don't know if I'm classed as a kid (15yrs old) but I had some difficulty with the topic "Corporate World".
The description of the topic was somthing about dropping the DOW and being british and 15, I didnt really know what the DOW was :P Anyway this weeks challenge and last weeks challenge seem easier to understand.. altho I am still a bit stuck for inspiration for "Something New" |
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08/07/2002 05:41:41 AM · #16 |
sjgleah - Personally, I would have a problem with anyone saying something like that comment to ANYONE. It's uncalled for. It shows less imagination than any photo I've seen here, that's for sure. One thing I worry about is that, since there are obviously some nasty people already rating and commenting on photos, flagging a photo as having been taken by a child might be an invitation to them to troll it extra hard! At the very least, I don't think that particular commenter would have cared if the photographer was a child or not, from the sounds of it.
But also, I do think Drew has a point in saying that we can't actually verify that people are the age they say they are. I can't think of how someone would benefit by lying about their age, but maybe they'd do it just for fun, and enter shocking photos then pretend they didn't understand because they're just a kid... there are all kinds of ways sites get trolled. |
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08/07/2002 06:25:04 AM · #17 |
I agree, harsh comments are of no value to anyone with a goal of learning. Good education practices should promote reinforcement and encouragement. I have found some of the comments made about my submission to be out of line as well. As well, I was not at all happy about a comment made in a thread by someone who I understood to be an editor, participant, or creator of this site. But, as an adult, I do discount these comments for the face value that they offer.
It concerns me to deliberately identify children on the web at any site.
Let's focus on the photography and create a positive experience here. Any form of censorship or labelling should not be permitted for any reason, including age. In the case of the child referred too in this thread, it sounds like she already has a good parent watching out for her. Perhaps, that is enough?
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08/07/2002 06:38:32 AM · #18 |
I agree that children shouldn't be identified only for their protection.
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08/07/2002 07:32:10 AM · #19 |
I also do not believe in identification of children or any group. This might lead to a form of vote swaying whether it would be lowering or raising a score based on the photographer's age. I would hate to see a 5 year old get last place for a fairly good photo just because some of the "trolls" on the site gave out 1's and 2's to the children. I also don't believe that it would be fair to the group as a whole to see a 5 year old get in the top three with a photo that is not deserving just because many adults thought it was cute and voted it higher than they would have if they didn't know the age of the photographer.
I think the best thing any of us can do is to remember that we need to think about the feelings of the recipient of our comments. |
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08/07/2002 07:40:56 AM · #20 |
| you shouldnt try to change a public arena to suit a specific type of person |
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08/07/2002 09:26:42 AM · #21 |
| My feelings are leave it alone. The parents are the ones that should explain the situations,comments,and badgering to their participating children. They will develop and become great photographers if they continue to hold interest just the same as an adult. I hope we don't as a society find a little place to put the kids until they grow up. Let them compete with the adults and don't be afraid of them blowing your socks off. They could you know! Autool |
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08/07/2002 09:41:21 AM · #22 |
I think it's unrealistic to say that you should treat very young children in the same way as an adult. I'm not talking about teenagers here - once a kid hits 13ish they can give as good as they get. But under 10s are still very impressionable and harsh words from grown-ups can be very hurtful.
Just as an example - there was a corporate world entry last week that had the photographer's age in the title I think. Now it wasnt a great photo but it was far from being the worst of the week. I scored it in the same way as I did everything else. However, I did change the tone of my comment considerably. I didn't mean to condescend but I did try extra hard to provide only constructive suggestions and feedback and I was careful to avoid tech-speak.
Was this wrong? I don't think so. I simply behaved as I would if I was talking to someone of that age face to face.
Now I agree that it's dubious whether it's good for children to be labelled on the internet. So perhaps an alternative to would be for children's accounts to be set so that the parent can log in as them first and remove any unnecessarily unkind comments before the child sees them. It would simply require a flag on the account to mark that the holder was under, say, 13 and that would make available a button to delete or hide certain comments.
I'm *very* strongly in favour of parents monitoring and controlling their children's use of internet sites. I'm equally in favour of children being encouraged to take part in and learn from sites like this.
John |
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08/07/2002 09:54:13 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by floyd:
I think it's unrealistic to say that you should treat very young children in the same way as an adult. I'm not talking about teenagers here - once a kid hits 13ish they can give as good as they get. But under 10s are still very impressionable and harsh words from grown-ups can be very hurtful.
Just as an example - there was a corporate world entry last week that had the photographer's age in the title I think. Now it wasnt a great photo but it was far from being the worst of the week. I scored it in the same way as I did everything else. However, I did change the tone of my comment considerably. I didn't mean to condescend but I did try extra hard to provide only constructive suggestions and feedback and I was careful to avoid tech-speak.
Was this wrong? I don't think so. I simply behaved as I would if I was talking to someone of that age face to face. ..................
John
I saw the same photo, voted it the same way I always do, but reworded my comments so as to be better understood ( I hope) by a younger person.
Suggestion - set up a separate site for young photographers intended for constructive comments after the main contest is finished. Limit the commenters to volunteers from the active participants here who want to help. The moderators could weed out, and keep out, anyone who gets nasty. I'd be willing to participate. |
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08/07/2002 10:00:16 AM · #24 |
I'm not sure about the exact laws, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to collect information about kids under 14 without their parents' permission on the internet. Putting them into a specially marked group or giving them their own site is like asking to put me in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
Drew |
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08/07/2002 10:10:20 AM · #25 |
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