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08/02/2002 12:46:25 PM · #1 |
Flaws in a picture
The picture in the contest I entered for this week had a flaw in it. I debated with myself in entering it or not. I tried to crop out the flaw and everything else I could do without spot removing it. I took other images with the same shot and got what I intended too do. I had a businessman in a 3-piece suit that was not flawed. I also took other pictures of the Stock Exchange and the Dow Jones report sign so I had better pictures that were not flawed. But I liked this one and I wanted to see if anyone could see how I conveyed the picture with the flaw. I wanted to see if someone would look beyond the flaw and see the picture the way I saw it. I got the usual comments of snapshot and some political comments but this comment made my day. I want too thank this person for being able to see beyond the flaw. Here is his or her comment.
I love the fact that no one in the photo is interacting with anyone else. There are all in the same place, but in their own worlds. The news van is a good touch.
Hit my subject right on the nail. We are in our own worlds and that is how the corporate world controls us. We need to see beyond flaws and take a look around us.
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08/03/2002 08:17:22 AM · #2 |
Is your flaw the name of the street? Because that's what threw me off.
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08/03/2002 08:18:27 AM · #3 |
By the way, to be quite honest, I really don't know if it's proper to be discussing this before the contest is over. I mean, I'm tempted to give you a higher score because of your explanation.
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08/03/2002 10:38:19 AM · #4 |
| Yes it is proper. The main person contacted me that I wanted to thank. Vote the way you feel or see it? |
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08/03/2002 11:25:07 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by dequinix:
By the way, to be quite honest, I really don't know if it's proper to be discussing this before the contest is over. I mean, I'm [i]tempted to give you a higher score because of your explanation.
[/i]
I think the majority of us here agree that it is not proper to discuss one's photos before the contest is over. It can influence scores and cause hard feelings among members. I don't think anyone has a problem with vague references to comments or photos. |
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08/03/2002 11:57:51 AM · #6 |
I agree with short... I think it is improper to reveal your photo in these forums during the challenge week...
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08/03/2002 12:14:33 PM · #7 |
Along the lines of this thread, would it be feasible to develop an anonymous link back to whoever gives a comment. Let's say when a comment is left you have a link back. Both people stay anonymous unless you want to reveal who you are in the conversation. That way when someone leaves a comment like "I dont ge it", ( yes that is right ) you can get back to them and find out what they mean, or even for that matter explain, but without revealing your identity. Their link would be just back to the picture.
Just an idea---- Autool
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08/03/2002 04:43:25 PM · #8 |
I'm the person who made the comment. I sent a private message rather than reply to this thread because I don't like to see photos being discussed before the voting is over, and it's obvious from my comment which photo is being discussed. Anonymous private messages in the way Autool described might be a good idea.
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08/03/2002 05:40:05 PM · #9 |
I think we have talked about listing the name of the commentor with their comments. I see no need to keep comments anonymous.
How many threads do we see each and every week started by folks frustrated with the anonymous comments...which in turn starts a whole new discussion about not talking about photos during the voting sessions.
It will never stop until we go open comments. |
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08/03/2002 05:57:50 PM · #10 |
I agree with needing some way of linking to a commentor.
I received a comment that states 'ARgh! For a' If anyone has a clue as to what that might mean please let me know. I have been trying to figure it out all week.
Also, what do you do when you receive comments that you feel are inappropriate. Not about the photo, just in general?
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08/03/2002 05:58:19 PM · #11 |
It seems to me that right about when I joined this site a move was made from being able to respond to commenters during the voting waseliminated and the present delayed commenter ID system started.
Personally, I think that the better system would be to allow the photographer's comments to appear along with the title, and eliminate discussion and responses during the voting period; otherwise you end up with a "squeaky wheel" system where some folks get a lot of back-and-forth discussion, and others' photos may get overlooked.
I'd rather see people's analytical effots and comments directed at last week's final results -- I think that would be more fair and educational for all of us. |
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08/03/2002 07:32:17 PM · #12 |
Please excure me, but I feel a mini rant coming on. There is always a lot of talk about wait till after the vote to discuss lessons and improvements. But it never happens. Case in point: the criticism of my texture shot was united and specific so I spent a lot of time redoing the shot and except for JMS it's been overlooked/ignored. As the saying goes "Nothing deader than yesterdays news."
Bob I would expect your comment to show up under the photo when the vote is over. If you are lucky you can spawn a good conversation on Monday. Good luck. aelith |
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08/03/2002 07:41:14 PM · #13 |
Aelith...I looked at your redo too. I wanted to comment but felt a little dumb saying 'Yeah, what Setzler says.' If it makes you feel better...I like the black and white too. The contours and contrast in it are great and yeah...what Setzler says. LOL. Nice work!
:)
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08/03/2002 07:42:40 PM · #14 |
Here we go again
If on Monday you receive a certain comment you disagree with or definitely is wrong (i.e. an accusation of Photoshopping, etc.) you may feel upset about it and PM the commentor. No matter how you want to call it, that is vote influencing.
By Fri/Sat, however, you are definitely able to discern a trend from the comments that you can draw a conclusion from, i.e. eliminate the comments that are in total opposition of one another (a strength to someone is a major weakness to someone else), ignore the total idiotic and or rude comments. And at that point, it really requires not much patience to wait till Monday to discuss the comment via the proper channels, i.e. discussion on the forum or a pm to the commentor.
In other words, I like the present system just fine. We can also establish our own rules. Sometime last week, when commenting on one's own picture during voting became acute, I adopted the rule to knock off 2 points of any such self-promoted picture and that's what I do.
BTW, even though the voting requirement has been lifted, I'm happy to see a large number of votes, not much different from before :) |
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08/03/2002 08:09:33 PM · #15 |
Well, I vote and then..later in the week I comment. I vote as I see fit. I assume others do as well. If I were to feel "influenced" or better informed about a photo I still would not change my vote. Most of the time I don't make negative comments until AFTER the voting anyway and only if I have a specific reason to just to help keep the stress levels for all concerned down a bit.
But Journey..there comes a time when you gotta assume others will do the right thing as well.
Sometimes I see things said that equate to "Well, I could control myself but we need a law to keep others in line".
I look at it this way..we are all adults and I don't need some rule to keep me in line. And I hope this site is supposed to be about communication and learning and community..not simply who wins the electronic ribbon.
If it's only about who gets first place and we are all so afraid 2 or 3 votes might swing 2 tenths of a point why even bother. There are dozens of other sites that only concentrate on winning a Picture of the Day. I was hoping this site might be different.
Originally posted by Journey:
Here we go again
If on Monday you receive a certain comment you disagree with or definitely is wrong (i.e. an accusation of Photoshopping, etc.) you may feel upset about it and PM the commentor. No matter how you want to call it, that is vote influencing.
By Fri/Sat, however, you are definitely able to discern a trend from the comments that you can draw a conclusion from, i.e. eliminate the comments that are in total opposition of one another (a strength to someone is a major weakness to someone else), ignore the total idiotic and or rude comments. And at that point, it really requires not much patience to wait till Monday to discuss the comment via the proper channels, i.e. discussion on the forum or a pm to the commentor.
In other words, I like the present system just fine. We can also establish our own rules. Sometime last week, when commenting on one's own picture during voting became acute, I adopted the rule to knock off 2 points of any such self-promoted picture and that's what I do.
BTW, even though the voting requirement has been lifted, I'm happy to see a large number of votes, not much different from before :)
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08/03/2002 08:33:45 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by hokie:
But Journey..there comes a time when you gotta assume others will do the right thing as well.
Hokie, what exactly do you mean by that? Didn't realize anything I said was that objectionable. The gist of my post was is it really so terrible having to wait till Monday to give a "rebuttal" to comment(s)? After all, these are fun challenges from which we can all learn something, not a do or die proposition, and yep, we are not children :)
It would be interesting to hear from commentors who leave their name with the comment and find out whether they get a lot of priv messages during the week about their comments. And again, we can make our own rules. If you feel comments shouldn't be anonymous once made, then sign your name to the comment. Anyone likeminded can do the same.
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08/03/2002 08:52:12 PM · #17 |
I have a question - I am curious why people who are scoring very low need to leave their name and the score?
A comment is fine, your name is fine, but why would anyone care to see if you rated them a 3?
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08/03/2002 10:13:38 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by TerryGee:
I have a question - I am curious why people who are scoring very low need to leave their name and the score?
A comment is fine, your name is fine, but why would anyone care to see if you rated them a 3?
I guess that way you could always PM them and ask them, "Why?" Personally, I only leave the score when I give a 7+.
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08/03/2002 10:28:27 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by dequinix:
Originally posted by TerryGee:
[i]I have a question - I am curious why people who are scoring very low need to leave their name and the score?
A comment is fine, your name is fine, but why would anyone care to see if you rated them a 3?
I guess that way you could always PM them and ask them, "Why?" Personally, I only leave the score when I give a 7+.
[/i]
Actually I did PM the person and explained that I would really appreciate a full critique ( instead of doesn''t meet challenge - 3).
I think that everyone should keep in mind that receiving a low score is not a pleasure to begin with, but at least giving constructive criticism with it helps the person to improve.
That being said, better to leave those lowscores off of the comment.(I got quite a few wonderful comments to make up for it).
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/3/2002 10:29:13 PM.
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08/03/2002 11:08:55 PM · #20 |
I think this all falls into the realm of "justification": whether you feel the need to explain your photo via comments or title. Journey, and others, I must agree with. For heaven's sake...it's just one week. Comments can be addressed, and photos discussed at the end.
I just don't understand the impatience.
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08/03/2002 11:25:54 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
For heaven's sake...it's just one week. Comments can be addressed, and photos discussed at the end.
I just don't understand the impatience.
The problem is that this site, by its nature, attracts people who are passionate about their images and really want to talk about them at the time they're getting comments and scores. I don't know how I'd get through if there weren't a little group of us who chat at half-empty.org about our photos during the voting week. I've talked about us before, we're not big enough to influence anything, but those conversations are what I really like about participating in DPC.
I just had a brainwave! Could there be some way that people could form small communities, not big enough to sway votes but enough to discuss their photos privately, as part of the site? Someone could form one and send invitations to others, and they could have their own little forum or work via a mailing list... I don't know....
It would save this kind of thing coming up in the forums all the time, I think.
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08/03/2002 11:33:51 PM · #22 |
| Study groups by time Zones perhaps? |
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08/03/2002 11:46:26 PM · #23 |
Hmm, I don't think it has to be by timezone. None of the people I talk to are in mine. But I think calling them "studygroups" is great. You should only be allowed to be in one at a time though.
It would be cool because people with similar tastes and aims would gravitate towards one another, so they would get to dissociate themselves a bit from what happens in the challenges where different types of photos with different aims are all rated together and just end up in a bit of a meaningless muddle in the results at the end, and many of the comments come from people who just don't get it. Being appreciated by a broad audience is one element of photography, but studygroups of people with common interests would help people to get into the subtelties of their preferred form of expression. I know Hokie was interested in creating something like this before (did that happen?), but having it as part of the site would be a really good idea, I think.
More traffic and more headaches for the admins though :P |
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08/03/2002 11:51:50 PM · #24 |
What I meant by the "there comes a time when you gotta assume others will do the right thing as well." is that I think people are assuming that just because someone is contacted by a photographer during the voting that a person would be inclined to change their vote.
I don't think that is true. I think most people will vote as they see fit regardless of who they know did a photo or the reasoning behind it.
My question.
Why even have anonymous comments available to the photographer? Most of the time people would prefer if comments were not discussed until after the vote. So what purpose is it to have these comments available to the photgrapher if you have so little to understand the comment?
I don't see any reason (beyond a fear of affecting the vote what?...2 or 3 people might raise their score 2 points each out of 250 votes) and so much more can be gained by having some discourse among commentors and voters during voting.
Unless folks are so competitive that the possibility of having someone gain a 0.004 advantage is unbearable :-/
BTW..I am not judging others with this..It's just my way of looking at it...thats all....right or wrong...
Also, I alway leave my name on my comments and never get anything but thanks for letting them have some kind of outlet for their nervous wati for the end of the week :-)
Originally posted by Journey:
Hokie, what exactly do you mean by that? Didn't realize anything I said was that objectionable. The gist of my post was is it really so terrible having to wait till Monday to give a "rebuttal" to comment(s)? After all, these are fun challenges from which we can all learn something, not a do or die proposition, and yep, we are not children :)
It would be interesting to hear from commentors who leave their name with the comment and find out whether they get a lot of priv messages during the week about their comments. And again, we can make our own rules. If you feel comments shouldn't be anonymous once made, then sign your name to the comment. Anyone likeminded can do the same.
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08/03/2002 11:51:51 PM · #25 |
I think having study groups is a great idea. It would help to have a guage of how well you do within your own 'genre/style.' I hope d&l can do something with this idea.
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