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10/14/2004 06:25:37 PM · #1 |
Without going into too much detail some people should be shot!, Daniel my 19 year old son and his friend were mugged on Tuesday night. What did they get away with? 1 jacket, 1 watch and a chain I bought him for his 18th Birthday (total worth a little over £1,000)
His friend managed to run off with 2 black eyes and cuts and bruises, Daniel is now recovering in hospital after a 2 hour operation to put a metal plate in his fractured jaw.
They were walking in a residential area at 9:00pm when they met 8 youths - are we safe anywhere?
Why do people do this? I know it happens 'all the time' but when it happens to a loved one it is sickening.
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10/14/2004 06:34:03 PM · #2 |
That's just so sad to hear.... I wonder what this planet is coming to... the other night I was in my home office, heard some noise and these 5 youth's were mouthing off and smashing glasses outside...I hope your son is better soon, I feel so sad about the things that were stolen from him, especially the 18th present, as they are the most important personal things to some people....
I wish you all well |
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10/14/2004 06:37:54 PM · #3 |
I am truly sorry to hear of this and feel with you. I have a fairly mature 14-year-old daughter and am contemplating eqipping her with a can of pepper spray or a bear flare.
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10/14/2004 06:40:48 PM · #4 |
Very sorry to hear that; it does hit home when its someone you love.
I have a friend who was jumped in what some considered a nice part of PA. He now has constant back and neck problems and has all kinds of social paranoia’s.
What did they get from him? His wallet; which had just over 20$ in cash.
Even in schools one is not immune to this type of situation. Part of the reason I quit school when I was 15 was this type of thing.
Not sure what can be done to prevent this type of thing. Its an unfortunate part of human nature. |
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10/14/2004 06:42:19 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Without going into too much detail some people should be shot!, Daniel my 19 year old son and his friend were mugged on Tuesday night. What did they get away with? 1 jacket, 1 watch and a chain I bought him for his 18th Birthday (total worth a little over £1,000)
His friend managed to run off with 2 black eyes and cuts and bruises, Daniel is now recovering in hospital after a 2 hour operation to put a metal plate in his fractured jaw.
They were walking in a residential area at 9:00pm when they met 8 youths - are we safe anywhere?
Why do people do this? I know it happens 'all the time' but when it happens to a loved one it is sickening. |
That's really rotten Andi. I have a 24 year old son, so I can imagine how you must feel. It really tears you up when anything bad happens to them.
Where did this happen? Where were the police?
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10/14/2004 06:56:44 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
Where did this happen? Where were the police? |
It was in a residential part of the Wirral, 5 miles from Liverpool, and as for the police well, you don't expect to need them in what is considered a semi rural area.
Thanks for all your comments (I'm calming down a bit now)
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10/14/2004 07:22:17 PM · #7 |
| I know how you feel....my son (age 23) was a victim of road rage recently...the man got out of his car at a red light and tried to pull my son out of his truck window. My son got away from him, and he followed my son to his job and tried to attack him again. The man had his child and mother in the car with him too!! My son's boss protected my son and the police were called to handle the situation. |
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10/14/2004 07:28:43 PM · #8 |
Ecce Signum ..."Behold the Proof"
We aspire to thr finest qualities of humanity here but we must never forget that our quality of life is determined by the lowest denominator. I'm hurting for you Andi. I've a 21 year old son in London at law school and worry about his safety all the time.
Prayers for a speedy recovery for your son.
Bob |
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10/14/2004 07:35:23 PM · #9 |
Andi, I was so upset to see this. My prayers for you and your son also. I hate what I see in this world at times. I truly feel for you, I. too, have a 14-year-old daughter and would be ripped apart should someone hurt her like this.
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10/14/2004 07:44:26 PM · #10 |
| Andi, I'm so sorry that your son had to go through what must have been a terrifying experience! You are both in my thoughts and I hope your son has a speedy recovery. Tons of healing, white light energy comin at'cha ------------> |
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10/14/2004 10:13:14 PM · #11 |
| Andi...that's such a horrible trauma for your family. I wish your son the best and a speedy recovery, and you the peace of mind to know that the bad guys get theirs eventually. Karma doesn't play games. :o) |
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10/14/2004 10:25:38 PM · #12 |
| So sorry to hear about your family's misfortune. I wish you and your son to heal from this as best you can. I am the victim of a mugging about 15 years ago but got away without getting hurt, although they did manage to get some belongings of mine. I have also been attacked by a dog. Since those two incidents I now carry a whistle with me (the loud kind that referees use at sporting events) when I leave the house. It works great with dogs and thank goodness, I haven't had to use it again with humans, but I do think it's a good deterent for all kinds of attackers. I hope everyone in your family stays safe from here on in. |
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10/14/2004 10:56:37 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Without going into too much detail some people should be shot!, Daniel my 19 year old son and his friend were mugged on Tuesday night. What did they get away with? 1 jacket, 1 watch and a chain I bought him for his 18th Birthday (total worth a little over £1,000)
His friend managed to run off with 2 black eyes and cuts and bruises, Daniel is now recovering in hospital after a 2 hour operation to put a metal plate in his fractured jaw.
They were walking in a residential area at 9:00pm when they met 8 youths - are we safe anywhere?
Why do people do this? I know it happens 'all the time' but when it happens to a loved one it is sickening. |
Sorry to hear about your misfortunes. I hope your son recovers quickly. Too bad the UK doesn't allow it's citizens to defend themselves properly.
For those here in the USA, I recommend that if your state allows it, you exercise your rights and go and aquire a concealed handgun license. They were lucky this time. Many times the thugs deside to leave no witnesses. If your armed you can defend yourselves, you will not only save your lives, you will save the taxpayers money on having to put the crimanls through the justice system, and rid your neighborhood of potential killers. It is you or them. Might as well be them. If you don't believe in carrying a gun to defend yourselves now, you will when it happens to you and they deside to start eliminating witnesses. Only then, it will be too late.
A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject; subject to any criminal with any kind of weapon.
Message edited by author 2004-10-14 22:58:25.
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10/14/2004 11:12:58 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Anachronite:
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Without going into too much detail some people should be shot!, Daniel my 19 year old son and his friend were mugged on Tuesday night. What did they get away with? 1 jacket, 1 watch and a chain I bought him for his 18th Birthday (total worth a little over £1,000)
His friend managed to run off with 2 black eyes and cuts and bruises, Daniel is now recovering in hospital after a 2 hour operation to put a metal plate in his fractured jaw.
They were walking in a residential area at 9:00pm when they met 8 youths - are we safe anywhere?
Why do people do this? I know it happens 'all the time' but when it happens to a loved one it is sickening. |
Sorry to hear about your misfortunes. I hope your son recovers quickly. Too bad the UK doesn't allow it's citizens to defend themselves properly.
For those here in the USA, I recommend that if your state allows it, you exercise your rights and go and aquire a concealed handgun license. They were lucky this time. Many times the thugs deside to leave no witnesses. If your armed you can defend yourselves, you will not only save your lives, you will save the taxpayers money on having to put the crimanls through the justice system, and rid your neighborhood of potential killers. It is you or them. Might as well be them. If you don't believe in carrying a gun to defend yourselves now, you will when it happens to you and they deside to start eliminating witnesses. Only then, it will be too late.
A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject; subject to any criminal with any kind of weapon. |
I read your post and I thought, jeez you're right but what are we supposed to do? Walk around armed all the time? What is THAT going to do to our society? Then I looked at your profile and saw you live in Texas. That explains it! Texans kick ass first and ask questions second. [I'm a native; I know where from I speak.]
But jeez, what are we supposed to do? Walk around armed all the time? It's like an endless violent loop - kill or be killed. Very sad indeed! |
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10/14/2004 11:22:13 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Anachronite:
A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject; subject to any criminal with any kind of weapon. |
I hadn't even read this thread yet, but when I saw you had posted to it I could anticipate what you'd write. : )
I think your strategy might be more effective though, if we went back to the real Wild West days and just wore the gun in an outside holster.
It seems to me a concealed handgun might be harder to get to and use if you are taken by surprise, and it provides no deterrent effect to potential criminals, nor fair warning for the innocent bystanders. The concealed weapon would seem to be the tool of the person with nefarious intent, not those openly declaring their readiness to protect themselves against attack.
...
His horse was fast as polished steel
Wore his gun outside his pants
For all the honost world to feel
by Townes Van Zandt (Pancho And Lefty) |
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10/14/2004 11:58:44 PM · #16 |
Message edited by author 2004-10-20 02:26:44. |
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10/15/2004 01:10:48 AM · #17 |
Those who feel the need to commit crimes against each other will not be deterred by the precense of a weapon. They will simply use greater initial force. Escalation of tension is not an answer -- it wasn't an answer between super powers and it isn't an answer between neighbors.
David
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10/15/2004 02:06:08 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
Those who feel the need to commit crimes against each other will not be deterred by the precense of a weapon. They will simply use greater initial force. Escalation of tension is not an answer -- it wasn't an answer between super powers and it isn't an answer between neighbors.
David |
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David: you posted what you consider an observation. However, you presented no solution or suggestion to the initial problem. Are you saying that the crime will trump because the will of the attacker will always exceed the will of the victum? Are you saying crime pays? lol |
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10/15/2004 02:06:10 AM · #19 |
I'm so sorry this happened to your son. I hope he will be alright. It is terrible and I don't think there are any easy answers.
T
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10/15/2004 02:07:41 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Anachronite:
A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject; subject to any criminal with any kind of weapon. |
I hadn't even read this thread yet, but when I saw you had posted to it I could anticipate what you'd write. : )
I think your strategy might be more effective though, if we went back to the real Wild West days and just wore the gun in an outside holster.
It seems to me a concealed handgun might be harder to get to and use if you are taken by surprise, and it provides no deterrent effect to potential criminals, nor fair warning for the innocent bystanders. The concealed weapon would seem to be the tool of the person with nefarious intent, not those openly declaring their readiness to protect themselves against attack.
...
His horse was fast as polished steel
Wore his gun outside his pants
For all the honost world to feel
by Townes Van Zandt (Pancho And Lefty) |
Paul, I don't necessarily disagree with you... but todays modern quick draw concealment holsters are really fast... The holsters I use ride on my hip, either inside or outside of my pants, with the grip exposed. I just wear an unbuttoned shirt over it. Access is extremely easy... sometimes I carry it in my front pocket... if a scary looking individual approached me I could easily access it before he got close enough to do anything... Also, there are organizations that offer excellent training... the best one I know of is (www.idpa.com). My best friend that is a police officer says this training is better than the training he gets at the department, and the only firearm training he has received that was better was his marine corp training. He recommends all citizens arm themselves because the bad guys are already armed, and there are not enough police officers to protect us.
...on the other note it acctually is legal to carry a rifle or shotgun in the open... I am sure you have seen rifles or shotguns in someones truck gunrack right?people that attend gun shows regularly walk from where they parked a 1/2 mile away and walk down the street carrying something they want to trade or sell.. however, if there were no gun show around, and you were to walk around downtown with a rifle in the open, while carrying the rifle in the open is legal, you would almost certainly be arrersted for disturbing the peace...
carrying the firearm in a concealed location tends to make people relax more... if you have a license your not even allowed to take the gun out and point it at someone to scare them away... if you draw your weapon in self defense, you have to use it or you are in violation of the conceal carry law... and if you think about it, thats smart.. why take it out and point it at a criminal if your not going to use it? if you don't fire, he's liable to try and defend himself and shoot you in return.
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10/15/2004 02:44:57 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Originally posted by Britannica:
Those who feel the need to commit crimes against each other will not be deterred by the precense of a weapon. They will simply use greater initial force. Escalation of tension is not an answer -- it wasn't an answer between super powers and it isn't an answer between neighbors.
David |
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David: you posted what you consider an observation. However, you presented no solution or suggestion to the initial problem. Are you saying that the crime will trump because the will of the attacker will always exceed the will of the victum? Are you saying crime pays? lol |
No, crime does not pay -- nor was saying that the intention of my post
However, you are right, I shouldn't have posted the above (even if that was not your intent). It not only take aids in taking the thread even further off topic, but could lead into discussions that could add to the distress of the original poster in a time when he needs no further stress.
To Andi: my apologies for this; and best wishes for your son and his friend.
David
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10/15/2004 08:45:46 AM · #22 |
| I'm really happy I live somewhere where the chances that someone will mug me with a gun are extremely low. |
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10/15/2004 08:51:48 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I'm really happy I live somewhere where the chances that someone will mug me with a gun are extremely low. |
acctually Bobster, your not even close on that one. In fact just the opposite is true. see the article pasted below.
England has worst crime rate in world
Telegraph, U.K. ^ | 01/12/2002 | David Bamber
Posted on 12/01/2002 8:47:38 AM PST by ElkGroveDan
England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations.
The survey, which is likely to prove embarrassing to David Blunkett, the Home Secretary. shows that people are more likely to be mugged, burgled, robbed or assaulted here than in America, Germany, Russia, South Africa or any other of the world's 20 largest nations. Only the Dominican Republic, New Zealand and Finland have higher crime rates than England and Wales.
According to the comparison of international crime statistics produced by the UN's Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention, England and Wales had 9,766 crimes for every 100,000 people in the year 2000. America had 8,517, South Africa 7,997, Germany 7,621 and Russia 2,022.
During the period 1998-2000, Britain went from fifth to fourth worst in the world league table. An analysis of total recorded crime figures before 1998 also suggests that England and Wales have moved sharply up the league table since Labour came to power in 1997. Crimes fell from 5.5 million in 1993 to 4.5 million in 1997. By 1999, total crimes had risen again to 5.3 million.
Last night Oliver Letwin, the shadow home secretary, said: "This does rather blow a hole in David Blunkett's claim that New Labour has crime under control. It is a damning picture."
The UN reports also shows that England and Wales are the second-worst places in the world for assaults, with 851 people assaulted per 100,000, and seventh for burglaries and car theft, with 1,579 burglaries per 100,000 population.
Message edited by author 2004-10-15 08:52:32.
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10/15/2004 08:56:38 AM · #24 |
| I don't think you read my post properly. |
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10/15/2004 08:59:31 AM · #25 |
with a gun
It's very difficult to get hold of a gun in the UK compared to America.
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