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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> What should I buy in the 3-4 Mpxl range?
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02/03/2003 06:20:20 PM · #1
Hello, I'm a videoagrapher and own a video camera that has a digital phot option but it's no good. What do you all reccomend for someone who has a couple years experience with SLRs?

I was Checking out the olympus c-4000z and that looks great! Cheap while mataining high quality images. Are there any competitors for this camera in the same <=450 dollar range?

Thanks,
Adam
02/03/2003 06:27:29 PM · #2
Have a look at the canon G2. Now that the G3 is out, you should get some decent deals.
02/03/2003 06:42:21 PM · #3
I noticed that best buy had the sony DSC-S85 for $499 the other night... that's $100 off...

02/03/2003 06:46:18 PM · #4
I'd strongly recommend the Powershot G2 ... that's what I use. It has full manual mode and the picture quality if excellent.

Enough about my camera. I checked out your video camera. That's a pretty impressive beast. What kind of viodeography do you do?

02/03/2003 06:54:41 PM · #5
Is the olympus c-4000z no good?
02/03/2003 07:01:23 PM · #6
If you are seriously locked into the 450 dollar price range, you might want to consider the Canon PowerShot S40 (or you could probably find a great deal on the S30 if you aren't hung up on the number of pixels).

I doubt you would be able to get a G2 with the money you have to spend. I believe our local Best Buy still has them priced around 700 dollars.

But the S30 and the S40 have a very similar feature set for a lot less money. They dont come with the nifty swivel display, but they can shoot in RAW mode and have full manual capability.

The Sony is great camera. The only thing that kept me from buying one was the proprietary memory sticks. Well, that and they don't offer a RAW mode. Which, say what you will about it, it beats the dickens out of TIFF files if you are trying to get the most HQ pics on your memory card.
02/03/2003 07:09:48 PM · #7
I'm pretty sure Sears has the Sony DSC-S85 for $499 too, a good price if you ask me, the image quality is excellent. The only problem that I have with the camera is the "slow" start up time (around six seconds).
02/03/2003 07:15:19 PM · #8
What kind of videography do i do?
Oh, all kinds...I'm currently working on a action film and a civil rights-ish music video.

By the way, thanks everyone for the speedy reply!

On question for you all...I was reading all the great reviews about the olympus C-4000z and they were really good. Is this camera really no good?

I'm looking for a camera that looks good and produces nice images. I have a lot of friends who would like for me to do some photography work for them.

Oh, that DSC-S85 review at cnet rated only a 6.6: //electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6613935-1304-6428302.html?

The G2 got A whopping 8:
//electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6613935-1304-6886275.html?tag=pdtl-list

The Canon s30 got a very high 8.2:
//electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6613935-1304-7738969.html?tag=pdtl-list

The Olympus c-4000 zoom got a 7.5
//electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6613935-1304-20238673.html?tag=pdtl-list

Do you all agree/disagree with these reviews?
02/03/2003 07:27:14 PM · #9
Well, only having owned the S30, I can't really say an awful lot about the other cameras. My sister has had two Oly's. She wore the first one out and then went out and got a UZ to replace it. And her cameras made some real nice images.

For me it boiled down to what I considered was the MOST important when I was ready to lay out the cash. I wanted full manual ability, the S30 was highly rated for image quality and was the cheapest camera on the market that offered full manual. It used CF cards which seemed to be used in many of the higher end digicams for whenever I decided to upgrade, and then there was the RAW thing. Once I realized how useful that could be I went out and bought the camera.

Your needs may be different. And from what I have seen of digicams, I think it would be hard to choose a BAD one. They all seem to take great pictures.

(BTW, does anyone have the address of the dpfanatics chat room? My pc crashed last week and I lost it!)

Message edited by author 2003-02-03 19:31:22.
02/03/2003 07:45:04 PM · #10
I think the problem here is that most of us have only had experience with one camera in that $400 - $600 range.

It looks like you got your eye on that Oly and just need confirmation.

Here's what you should do: Go on the Camera tab, find the Olympus 4000 and click on users (there are 20 on DPC). Pick a few users and ask them if 1) they have any regrets, and 2) if they recommend that particular camera. That should help you out.

Once you've finsihed your research, go out and buy yourself a G2 (just teasing; I just really like mine). Happy shopping.
02/03/2003 07:48:26 PM · #11
I love my Canon PowerShot G2.
02/03/2003 08:03:33 PM · #12
Here's something I wrote a friend some time back. He was looking for something high-end, but not SLR. Take it for what it's worth, I am by no means a specialist....

- - - - - - - -
There are 4 different key categories of digital cameras:
> Entry-level: These are bigger cameras, point & shoot; therefore cheaper with up to 3 mpixels roughly today. 150$ to 300$ price range (e.g. HP Photosmart 620)
> Sub-compact/Compact: Small or very small, automatic or with manual controls 400$ to 600$. (e.g. Canon Powershot s230 or Powershot s45)
> Mid-range: Bigger cameras, one step away from SLR with interchangeable lens but has fixed lens, full manual controls, very big zoom range etc... 1000$ (e.g. Nikon Coolpix 5700). These are so good today that they are practically like the SLR's.
> SLR: Canon D60 or Nikon D100. Minimum investment 2'200$ for body, 500$ lens, 300$ battery & memory, 200$ flash.....You have to be ready to spend at least 3'500$.

Anything you buy will last at the most a couple of years, if you want to follow the technology. Roughly the same speed as PC technology change, although we're earlier on the curve with digital cameras so so great new features appear just after you've bought the latest and greatest...but that's part of the deal I guess. I would not buy a camera that has been on the market for more than 6 months, as this is really old technology....

I would recommend that go for the mid-range. I'm pretty weak on this range of products but there are some clear leaders. The latest Nikon Coolpix 5700 seems great (very high scores). Other options are Olympus C5050-Z, Minolta DiMage 7Hi or Sony DSC-F717. These are all leading brands in the digital space. Canon doesn't really have a solid competitor in the "big lens space" except of course their market leading SLR's (D30 which was replace by the D60 a year ago...and the 1Ds coming out soon).

The best evaluation site by far is " //www.dpreview.com". They seem to have a little bit of a Canon bias, nevertheless they offer the best evaluations of different cameras, side-by-side comparison, and an excellent tool to help you choose exactly which cameras can meet your specific needs (see under "buying guide" on the site). Also, //www.stevesdigicams.com is another site which is diligent about doing reviews. To get the best price, go to //www.pricescan.com (or //www.pricegrabber.com) find the lowest price - then you just have to check their quality of service (evaluation scores are reliable) and see if they ship international (if you're abroad)!

If you win the lotto, get the 1Ds. If you are looking for a great small camera you can grow with, get the the Canon S45. I just bought this as my small camera. It is really good. Only drawback so far is that red-eye happens more often than other cameras (due to the proximity of the flash to the lens).

Good luck!!

Jakob aka Chakkocco
02/03/2003 08:14:59 PM · #13
Originally posted by chakkobbo:

The best evaluation site by far is " //www.dpreview.com". They seem to have a little bit of a Canon bias, nevertheless they offer the best evaluations of different cameras, side-by-side comparison, and an excellent tool to help you choose exactly which cameras can meet your specific needs (see under "buying guide" on the site). Also, //www.stevesdigicams.com is another site which is diligent about doing reviews.


You took the words right out of my mouth - You can expect to spend a couple of days reading reviews at www.dpreview.com. They also have active Forums for each brand of camera where you could get very specific answers from users.

Personally I went for the Nikon Coolpix 995 about 12 months ago. It's a 3.3MP and allows you heaps of control over the shot (more than I currently know what to do with). The 995's nearest replacement is the 4500. Of course you could always consider buying a slightly old model to get more bang for buck but digital camera's seem to have moved pretty fast in the last couple of years technology wise.

I'll tell you what... I'll swap you my 995 (only ~400 shots on the clock) for your Canon? :-)
02/03/2003 10:08:49 PM · #14
Check dpreview for sure. You just have to decide what's important to you. If you want to be able to add lenses and and external flash then that narrows it down. If you want compact flash cards then you narrow it down more. If you want manual mode, knock off a few more choices... just keep going til u get what u want. I like my camera but so do a lotta other ppl :D
02/04/2003 03:29:57 AM · #15
I checked out the Olympus the other day, attracted by the features and reviews. What put me off was the noisy shutter. If you are into portrait or candid photography this is highly distracting. I decided not to buy it.
Good luck with your quest,
JohnMK
Originally posted by Geocide:

Hello, I'm a videoagrapher and own a video camera that has a digital phot option but it's no good. What do you all reccomend for someone who has a couple years experience with SLRs?

I was Checking out the olympus c-4000z and that looks great! Cheap while mataining high quality images. Are there any competitors for this camera in the same <=450 dollar range?

Thanks,
Adam
02/04/2003 03:30:53 AM · #16
Thank you all so much for your help! If you need any Digital video questions come over to the dv.com forums...that's where i typically hang out.
02/04/2003 01:22:47 PM · #17
I'm just about to order the FujiFilm FinePix S602Z. Should i know anything before i commit to this camera? My decision is between this and the Sony s85.

Message edited by author 2003-02-04 13:23:39.
02/04/2003 01:39:18 PM · #18
Olympus C-4000z owner here and all I can say is I really like it. Had it about 2 weeks now. Takes good photographs and has plenty of manual options. I beleive you also get a free 64mb card with it till the end of Feb. (Unless thats just my local Best Buy. :))
02/04/2003 02:22:02 PM · #19
Originally posted by Geocide:

I'm just about to order the FujiFilm FinePix S602Z. Should i know anything before i commit to this camera? My decision is between this and the Sony s85.


That is also one of the many camera's I considered (went for the 602 out of about 10 camera's, a half year buying decision).
Pro's for the S85
* F2.0-F2.5 very good lens
* 4mp censor with decent resolving power
* AF ilumination lamp
* Good battery life
* can be focussed to infinity with a menu

My cons for the S85
* slow startup, slow focus, slow writing
* slow burstrate, only 2.3fps for 3 frames in a row
* takes to much time before next shot 3.4 seconds
* the hotshoe is fake, you need a Sony flash or a slave flash
* the lens is limited in optical range; only 102mm
* aperture is limited to F8
* no multi division metering (matrix), only spot and cwa
* not comfy in the hand, not comfy to operate
* bracketing limited to a max of 1EV =/- step
* fastest shutterspeed is a slow 1/1000s
* slowest shutterspeed is only 8s
* the tripod mount is in a very bad location
* I don't like Sony's infolithium batteries, expensive and last just as long as NiMh AA's and I've got a lot of broken Sony np-fs11 batteries.
* no preview or playback histogram function
* no menu shortcuts
* limited manual focus
* some typical Sony blooming of highlights in the samples I've seen
* the manual whitebalance doesn't work very well, not true whitebalanced
* don't like the color output

What counted the most for me was that it didn't feel nice in the hand, it was slow with almost everything, it has limited zoom, it uses Sony batteries and you can only use Sony flash units. When you buy this camera you also need to buy all you other important stuff from Sony.

The 602 solves all of those cons, but can't focus to infinity with a push of a button and doesn't have an AF assist lamp and therefore is has focus trouble in low light. In every other aspect I think it is a better camera.
It is very fast, fast focus, fast write times, only a small shutter lag, shoots photo's with no delay in between, can do 5 frames per second for 1 second in the 6mp fine jpeg mode, things can be changed very fast, you can put on any make of flash, as long as you can set the aperture and iso on the flash itself (Sunpak 144 auto, 383 super etc). 210mm zoom range, good feel, histogram in pre-save mode when you select that in the settings, histogram in playback mode, good battery life, etc etc etc etc etc. One stop more aperture, one stop more shutterspeed in the slow direction and 3 stops more shutterspeed in the fast direction. It can bracket with 2 stops compensation. The 3mp quality is on par with S85 4mp output and comes close to the D7i's 5mp. And a lot of the menu's are quickly accesible via the Shift combo button.
Etc.

I wouldn't consider the S85 anymore (decent image quality, but it lacks so much in photographers features and quality), I'd look at the F717, D7i, Coolpix 5700. Or when you don't want a long zoom range, check out the G2/G3. I am happy with my 602 and also took the camera's I just mentioned into the equation. Try them out in a shop, feel them, handle them, take pictures. Do you have to scroll trough menu's a lot? Is the tripod mount in the middle of the lens? Does it focus fast? Do you have to wait before you can take another shot? Try them inside and outside.

Message edited by author 2003-02-04 14:25:14.
02/04/2003 04:09:05 PM · #20
I rate the Sony cameras highly, have a look at the Sony DSC-F505V (make sure it's the 'V') or if you can afford it I'd highly recommend the DSC-F707 or F717.

The Sony cameras use a similar battery to the camcorders & hence last a long time, good picture quality, easy to use.
02/04/2003 04:12:11 PM · #21
For what its worth I bought my sister a C4000 and she has been getting great results with it. It is a proven design and has plenty of features. It doesn’t have all the features of a G2 or a dImage 7 but I think it would take most people quite a while to outgrow it and the price is right.

If you take the time to scroll all the way down this link you will find some more info about the C4000.

//www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/sm-03-01-26.shtml

Greg
02/05/2003 02:52:04 PM · #22
Well i went to the camera store and got all of the forementioned cameras in my hand and took lots of pictures in the store and have come to the conclusion that the s602z is the best for me. It feels good in my hand, has a nice picture quality and is very very fast.

Now, it's time to order one...as soon as my tax return comes in. How much memory did you all buy when you first got your cameras and are there any advantages of smart media or compact flash? (the 602z takes both).

Thanks! oh, and should i get a UV filter to protect the lens?

Thanks again, adam

By the way, you all are great photographers and have been very helpful.

//www.FilmExposure.net

Message edited by author 2003-02-05 14:52:31.
02/05/2003 04:39:47 PM · #23
Geo,

Take a look at www.buydig.com
That is where I picked up my 602. It is running $505 and it is new and factory fresh in the box. It comes with the normal Fuji Warrenty.

John
02/05/2003 05:08:43 PM · #24
I've got a 340mb Microdrive for the Fuji. It was the most storage for my money at that time and I wanted and knew that I needed a lot.

Compactflash was/is a little bit more expensive per mb, but it is usually faster (not for streaming video, only for writing single shots away) and it hasn't got any moving parts that can braek down. Not all CF cards have the speed to write long video away, the Microdrive can write nonstop video until it is full.

Smartmedia is faster as compactflash, except for some more expensive highspeed CF. It is smaller and lighter and last time I checked it was cheaper. The fast speed is only important if you think video is important.

The reason why many people favour compactflash, is because you can use it in a lot of other camera's too. That makes it more convenient to switch makes. Smartmedia is limited to Fuji and correct me if I am wrong Olympus.
And Smartmedia isn't used in the new camera's any longer. The 602 was the last Smartmedia Fuji. All future Fuji's will have XD-cards. Smartmedia will be supported for a long time though.

So depending on your needs vs price, make your choice.
340mb will hold about 145 6mp fine photo's or 240 3mp fine.

02/05/2003 05:27:21 PM · #25
Thanks!

One more thing, i promise:
UV lens? What's the thread size on the lens by the way?
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