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07/05/2014 08:10:59 PM · #1 |
It just struck me that given the membership of this site that the total amount of members voting is rather small, I would estimate that the average challenge would run between 60 to 85 hard core voters.
Do you think this may influence the style of photography here ?
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07/05/2014 09:13:08 PM · #2 |
Doesn't influence my style...
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07/05/2014 09:43:34 PM · #3 |
| It influences my style. I will continue to submit crappy photos until more people vote. |
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07/05/2014 10:32:35 PM · #4 |
I was thinking if it is the same group voting is there a DPC "style" of photograph that would garner a higher vote than others.
There was one very photoshopped Blue ribbon landscape, others with wine glasses balanced on each other that have done well and which turn up in different guises in other challenges also in top 10. |
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07/05/2014 11:17:28 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
I was thinking if it is the same group voting is there a DPC "style" of photograph that would garner a higher vote than others.
There was one very photoshopped Blue ribbon landscape, others with wine glasses balanced on each other that have done well and which turn up in different guises in other challenges also in top 10. |
Yes, you can see it over and over and over again in photos that score 6.8 and higher. |
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07/06/2014 12:14:38 AM · #6 |
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07/06/2014 12:56:10 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Tiberius:
i promise to vote more |
Oh great I feel quite lonely out there, certainly can do with the company!!! |
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07/06/2014 07:14:31 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
It influences my style. I will continue to submit crappy photos until more people vote. |
Bunch of people voting won't put me off...
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07/06/2014 07:45:36 AM · #9 |
Does it influence style? I think it is more influencing on lineup...especially with the smaller number of total votes coming in now. Before one had a large number better representing all walks of life.
Deliberate low ballers, those seeking to better where they end up in line up, and those voting on their biased instead of the merits of the photo used to be folded into the mix without much power to greatly influence the outcome.. Now with low vote count those *handful* of votes now have greater ability to effect the outcome. You can't tell me those conditions don't exist -they do, and they can be found
This is one reason why I created the thread about 60 vote total tally. It *is* very important to vote and get out the vote. To truly get a better accurate picture on how it is viewed by all walks of life one needs a total vote count of 100 or more. A greater number also will offset the *few* who seek to tip the balance rather than vote fairly and on the merits of the photo |
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07/06/2014 03:42:16 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by CNovack:
Does it influence style? I think it is more influencing on lineup...especially with the smaller number of total votes coming in now. Before one had a large number better representing all walks of life.
Deliberate low ballers, those seeking to better where they end up in line up, and those voting on their biased instead of the merits of the photo used to be folded into the mix without much power to greatly influence the outcome.. Now with low vote count those *handful* of votes now have greater ability to effect the outcome. You can't tell me those conditions don't exist -they do, and they can be found
This is one reason why I created the thread about 60 vote total tally. It *is* very important to vote and get out the vote. To truly get a better accurate picture on how it is viewed by all walks of life one needs a total vote count of 100 or more. A greater number also will offset the *few* who seek to tip the balance rather than vote fairly and on the merits of the photo |
+1! |
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07/06/2014 04:57:09 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by CNovack:
Does it influence style? I think it is more influencing on lineup...especially with the smaller number of total votes coming in now. Before one had a large number better representing all walks of life.
Deliberate low ballers, those seeking to better where they end up in line up, and those voting on their biased instead of the merits of the photo used to be folded into the mix without much power to greatly influence the outcome.. Now with low vote count those *handful* of votes now have greater ability to effect the outcome. You can't tell me those conditions don't exist -they do, and they can be found
This is one reason why I created the thread about 60 vote total tally. It *is* very important to vote and get out the vote. To truly get a better accurate picture on how it is viewed by all walks of life one needs a total vote count of 100 or more. A greater number also will offset the *few* who seek to tip the balance rather than vote fairly and on the merits of the photo |
Well put and to the point. I vote sometimes lower than others, I rarely give a 10 my highest would be 8. given that I am I think consistant but it would be good to see a lot more voting and giving feedback |
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07/06/2014 04:59:30 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by raish:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
It influences my style. I will continue to submit crappy photos until more people vote. |
Bunch of people voting won't put me off... |
Join the club, |
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07/08/2014 05:14:38 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
Originally posted by CNovack:
Does it influence style? I think it is more influencing on lineup...especially with the smaller number of total votes coming in now. Before one had a large number better representing all walks of life.
Deliberate low ballers, those seeking to better where they end up in line up, and those voting on their biased instead of the merits of the photo used to be folded into the mix without much power to greatly influence the outcome.. Now with low vote count those *handful* of votes now have greater ability to effect the outcome. You can't tell me those conditions don't exist -they do, and they can be found
This is one reason why I created the thread about 60 vote total tally. It *is* very important to vote and get out the vote. To truly get a better accurate picture on how it is viewed by all walks of life one needs a total vote count of 100 or more. A greater number also will offset the *few* who seek to tip the balance rather than vote fairly and on the merits of the photo |
Well put and to the point. I vote sometimes lower than others, I rarely give a 10 my highest would be 8. given that I am I think consistant but it would be good to see a lot more voting and giving feedback |
Yes, agreed it would be wonderful if more would vote and comment. But I understand the drop in comments, but feel there is no good grounds for a drop under 100 vote total. It takes far less time to vote than comment. Some challenges have finished over 100 and that is wonderful!...But it really should happen on a consistent basis.
There are days I feel I am fighting a wall of apathy every time I say "go vote!". Oh, some respond and that is good but if you look at how many views a thread gets and/or responses on that thread ...well, it is not what it used to be. |
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07/08/2014 07:13:53 PM · #14 |
In sillohettes, there were 108 entries and a vote of 71 which means about 1//3 did not participate that's a lot of voters.
should there be a rule that if you participate then you are required to vote ? or is that too heavy. |
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07/08/2014 07:23:11 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by CNovack:
Does it influence style? I think it is more influencing on lineup...especially with the smaller number of total votes coming in now. Before one had a large number better representing all walks of life.
Deliberate low ballers, those seeking to better where they end up in line up, and those voting on their biased instead of the merits of the photo used to be folded into the mix without much power to greatly influence the outcome.. Now with low vote count those *handful* of votes now have greater ability to effect the outcome. You can't tell me those conditions don't exist -they do, and they can be found
This is one reason why I created the thread about 60 vote total tally. It *is* very important to vote and get out the vote. To truly get a better accurate picture on how it is viewed by all walks of life one needs a total vote count of 100 or more. A greater number also will offset the *few* who seek to tip the balance rather than vote fairly and on the merits of the photo |
+1 again. And I definitely agree with  kiwinick and Dr.Confuser too, of course. Simply because it happens to be true. DPC voters love eyecandy. Which is why it is getting a little boring seeing exactly the same sort of images, by the same photogs, ribboning over and over and over again.
ETA: Nick, sadly I don't think making voting a requirement in a challenge in which you're entered will do any good. Look at the stats, voters who are voting against their own image in a challenge, always vote lower than voters who have no entry in a challenge. Sad state of affairs but true.
Now, if they allowed everyone to vote on their own images, so everyone could give themselves a 10 - which would be *scrubber-proof*, not that the scrubber seems to work anyway - then that might help a little. But only a little, because then the lowballers would only vote even lower.
Stopping now before I get back on a soapbox. Especially the 'I'm leaving' one.
Message edited by author 2014-07-08 19:29:16. |
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07/08/2014 07:36:44 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
In sillohettes, there were 108 entries and a vote of 71 which means about 1//3 did not participate that's a lot of voters.
should there be a rule that if you participate then you are required to vote ? or is that too heavy. |
That's assuming everyone votes 100% though. It could mean that on average people vote on 2/3 of the entries. Would still be nice to get more votes, but I think there are still enough per challenge to get an accurate score so I wouldn't worry too much. |
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07/08/2014 07:46:42 PM · #17 |
Back in 2007 when I first became active, there were a lot more voters, but there were also a lot more entries in the challenges ... and it was still tough to ribbon, and the forum was filled with complaints that the same type of images were winning over and over again.
I bugged out for a few years and now came back, and it appears to me that what I found back then still holds true today even though there are fewer voters - after about the first 20-30 votes you pretty much know where your image is going to score. The biggest difference is how quickly you get the feedback - back then the votes came in fast and furious at rollover, now its painfully slow. But still, after 20-30, you know where you sit, and over the rest of the week the scores just regress to the mean - low ball scores climb, high scores drop, but you kind of stay relatively where you were to begin with. (My (limited!) experience with Top 10 finishes seems to indicate there's a bit more movement in the last 24-48 hours among the top entries as diligent voters adjust their rankings among the 7s, 8s, 9s and 10s they gave out. But for the rest of us, we pretty much end up where we are.)
So I guess I just don't buy that more voters will make a difference. In fact, with the slower voting, you have longer to hope that the voters will come around to seeing your vision and give you the score you KNOW you deserve! |
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07/08/2014 08:20:42 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:
...So I guess I just don't buy that more voters will make a difference. In fact, with the slower voting, you have longer to hope that the voters will come around to seeing your vision and give you the score you KNOW you deserve! |
Exactly. Sadly, it just doesn't seem to work.
Oh, a few times the blinkers have slipped and I've actually ribboned, most recently with a second to no less than Doc himself, in Best of 2013.
But now things are back to normal. The same ol'. Maybe the photogs whose images constantly ribboned back then have left, but others have taken their place. The PS wizards are on their own plane, and I admire both and their work and have had helpful hints from both on PS works, so I am not addressing them here.
If I do *leave* here, it won't be so much leaving the site, as in stomping off and demanding that my port get deleted. I have fun in the forums and there is still a ton of stuff to learn here. Seeing that I went from a total no-hoper to actually ribboning without having to grab my ankles in order to do so, I do believe my port gives some hope to noobs. They can look at the abysmal crap I was entering in the early years and feel better about themselves. Maybe I'll even get back into writing critiques.
But entering challenges? Hmm. We'll just have to see about that. |
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07/08/2014 08:23:02 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:
Back in 2007 when I first became active, there were a lot more voters, but there were also a lot more entries in the challenges ... and it was still tough to ribbon, and the forum was filled with complaints that the same type of images were winning over and over again.
I bugged out for a few years and now came back, and it appears to me that what I found back then still holds true today even though there are fewer voters - after about the first 20-30 votes you pretty much know where your image is going to score. The biggest difference is how quickly you get the feedback - back then the votes came in fast and furious at rollover, now its painfully slow. But still, after 20-30, you know where you sit, and over the rest of the week the scores just regress to the mean - low ball scores climb, high scores drop, but you kind of stay relatively where you were to begin with. (My (limited!) experience with Top 10 finishes seems to indicate there's a bit more movement in the last 24-48 hours among the top entries as diligent voters adjust their rankings among the 7s, 8s, 9s and 10s they gave out. But for the rest of us, we pretty much end up where we are.)
So I guess I just don't buy that more voters will make a difference. In fact, with the slower voting, you have longer to hope that the voters will come around to seeing your vision and give you the score you KNOW you deserve! |
Sorry, that doesn't always hold true. You don't know where you sit at the 20-30 range. In recent experience it can be the first 10-20 votes has one down so far that it is a clawing climb to come up or it is at a steady score all week and the votes 30 to 40 or votes 60 to 70 change the game where it goes down anywhere from .6 to .4. From a personal experience, I had one recent entry hold a steady 6.45 to 6.53 the whole week and when last 3 days with a few voters took a hit that knocked it down by about .5. I can't speak for others but I know that some have experienced a big drop at the tail end or be in the extreme lows in the beginning with a climb happening in the middle votes and either holding steady or dropping. It has become more a roller coaster ride with less votes. Remember the 100 vote check-in? Those days are long past. Look at the recent score threads - and I do find it interesting that very few post anymore. Part of the problem is so few entries and so few voters one doesn't want to tempt fate perhaps.
Message edited by author 2014-07-08 20:28:15. |
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07/08/2014 09:32:24 PM · #20 |
| mine tend to drop early ,plateau the drop again, cant win |
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07/08/2014 10:18:35 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by CNovack:
Some challenges have finished over 100 and that is wonderful!. |
The funny thing is that the "100 vote check in" used to be the point in voting that you could get some idea of how the voting was likely to go, sort of like on election night when 20% of precincts have reported in. |
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07/09/2014 07:51:37 AM · #22 |
| Nowadays if you get 80 votes, consider yourself lucky. And fwiw generally my votes start low and go up. But an image in voting started low, went up as expected, peaked and has since steadily plummeted. |
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07/09/2014 09:56:36 AM · #23 |
10 years. I'm approaching 10 years at DPC. It's been on and off though; I've quit, twice or thrice, and even left in high dudgeon, once or twice. But still I rise from the dead - a pesky and sometimes unwelcome spook - and still I check in from time to time. Enter a challenge occasionally. Vote, make a few comments. Why?
Because it's a community of people with some intersecting ideas. Some common interests, and some at odds too.
Have I learned from those 10 years? Yes.
Is the community atrophying? Yes. And no. It's inevitable that some people will pass through, learning, or else refusing to learn. Both are using DPC as a waypoint to somewhere else. Or nowhere else.
I learned to love photographs here, and I learned too to despise and even resent photography here. In both I was, and am, unforgivably arrogant. So I vote and comment according to a received wisdom that is incomplete, negligently informed, and subjective.
My average vote given is low. Does that mean I am a troll? Or just an asshole?
I openly despise the formulaic, and I celebrate the adventurous. But I wouldn't have arrived at where I am without the exposure to both at DPC. And my formulaic is your adventurous, and vice-versa. That's what a living community is. An intersection, rather than a coalition. It's the differences that give us breath, not the similarities.
DPC is not what it was because photography is not what it was in 2004. The thing that throttles voting and commenting nowadays is familiarity. We're not only familiar with the familiar; in 2014 we're also familiar with the unfamiliar. There's nothing new.
Or is there? |
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07/09/2014 12:34:48 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by ubique:
........... There's nothing new.
Or is there? |
cellphones, you traitor! |
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07/09/2014 12:37:22 PM · #25 |
| and they are now, dare I say it? ubiquitous! |
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