upgrade to monolights - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/10/2014 08:25:46 AM · #1

so i currently use speed lights for my artificial lighting needs. even on full power if i stop my lens down quite a bit i need the lights real close to the subject and often times i shoot in a dark room so the ambient isnt affecting my lighting and the camera just hunts and hunts for focus.. not to mention its would be nice to see how the subject is lit in real time not after i chimp.

im thinking i need to upgrade to some monolights.

I have three speed lights and I was thinking i probably need two monolights for my work and supplement with the speedlights.

Questions...

how much power do I need?

how many should i get for portrait/modeling work?

What brand? I don't have a whole lot of disposable income but I dont want cheap.

is it easy to use monolights in combination with speed lights?

keep in mind am very green to understanding monolights and their specs and features, etc.. assume i know nothing.

The floor is yours.

Message edited by author 2014-04-10 08:27:36.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

04/10/2014 10:14:37 AM · #2

check out alien bees from paul c buff. great lights, relatively inexpensive, manageable learning curve.

you can easily start off with 1 and go from there. they do work with speedlights.

they have all sorts of modifiers (softboxes, grids, etc).

they have a really nice portable power supply (vagabond mini II)

they have modelling lamps.

they have their own proprietary remote control system; it costs a few bucks, but not as much as a corresponding set of pocket wizards. one nice thing about their cyber commander is that you can control up to 16 lights without having to leave your camera. it *does* have a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty cool.

note: even without monolights, you don't want to be shooting in the dark. if you have your lights adjusted correctly and your WB set, the ambient shouldn't throw you off (at least it won't throw you as bad as what can happen shooting in a dark room)

04/10/2014 11:17:36 AM · #3

thanks skip. maybe i'll pick one up and see how it works.

i don't shoot completely dark but if you've ever used a 5d2 and out focus points you know it doesn't take much to make the af hunt :) i did a shoot in my living room last weekend with tons of ambient window light supplemented with speed lights and it hunted and hunted. i just went back to center point and cropped which annoys me since i lose so much of the frame.

04/10/2014 11:29:00 AM · #4

btw how much power do i need?

04/10/2014 12:03:54 PM · #5

and where can i buy them? BH adorama and amazon only sell brackets and a google serach doesnt seem to have leads...

04/10/2014 12:13:27 PM · #6

Mike, keep in mind that most lighting systems have proprietary modifiers. This makes a change down the road (in the event you decide to upgrade) quite expensive, as you'd have to replace everything. One could argue that the quality of the modifiers is as important or more so than the head itself.

Though I don't have them, ABs have several advantages: in addition to economical (compared to other systems), they're small and light. I don't know much else about them, so I can't speak to that, although I do have the Vagabond Mini which is phenomenal. I use it to power my heads. You should also consider refresh rate, as anything over 2 seconds is like a lifetime when you're shooting. I rarely do bursts, so I almost never encounter the issue, but if you do, you will be sorely tested.

I have the Profoto D1 studio kit, and ADORE it. They're pricier, larger, and heavier, but are REALLY rugged. The kit comes with everything you need to start shooting. The 500 watts is waaaay enough to overpower even the sun in full noon. I can't imagine you'd need more than that unless you start shooting in huge spaces.

I'm now eyeing supplementing my kit with the new Air studio kits - totally wireless!!!! In addition to wireless triggering, they have onboard power, so you just need to charge them up before you go.

04/10/2014 12:15:07 PM · #7

Originally posted by Mike:

and where can i buy them? BH adorama and amazon only sell brackets and a google serach doesnt seem to have leads...

And therein lies the DISADVANTAGE of ABs. They are available only via the Paul C. Buff website, so if something breaks or stops working, there's no store you can run to for a replacement part.

04/10/2014 01:02:38 PM · #8

I was hoping you'd chime in..

two choices I have

are the AB400 - 160 w/s 0.5 recycle time, 1/2000 duration

or the AB800 - 320 w/s 1 sec recycle, 1/1600 duration.

which but most importantly why? i guess im not sure how much power 320w/s is over 160 (beside double) to gain the recycle time, im not so concerned with flash duration.

04/10/2014 01:07:37 PM · #9

so i cant just buy any soft box and the appropriate adapter ring?

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

04/10/2014 01:09:09 PM · #10

You know, I'm more of a touchy-feely user than a technical one. I'm afraid I can't answer the question. But based on a recent experience with the AB800, I think it has more than enough power to cover your needs.

kiwinick

Sony DSLR-A550

04/10/2014 03:44:56 PM · #11

whatever you do keep away from the Chinese ones,. I would recommend the "Electra" brand madein Thailand,
I still am using these units that I purchased over 25years ago and apart from the modelling light on one or two blowing (old age) I have not had a single problem with them,.

If you want top of the range,Bowens are the best there is they have a wide range of accessories as well.
I bought 500 W/s and found that was plenty of power, I used them in a small studio at 1/2 power , got a couple of 200w/s and find with digital that is plenty enough power.

Hope this Helps

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/10/2014 04:13:50 PM · #12

mike, i have an absolute TON of PCB stuff.

their customer service is top-notch. you call and they answer the phone, right there in tennessee. they have tech support that can walk you through just about any setup (i once had to call them 30 minutes before a major headshot shoot; i couldn't figure out what button i hit that stopped half my lights from firing. 5 minutes on the phone and everything was perfect.)

you'd definitely want the 800 over the 400. i have 2 16s, 2 8s, 1 4, and the RF. i typically carry the 16s everywhere i go.

their modifiers are fine. simple to use, simple to store. i have their octaboxes with grids, stripboxes with grids, 4 different honeycomb grids, barndoor, beauty dish, and the PLM. i don't use everything all the time, but i have just about everything i need when a need arises.

if you have any more questions, just let me know.

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/11/2014 07:04:09 AM · #13

ok, i'm going to get a single 800 and see how i like it. im going to grab an octobox with it, is 48" large enough to light a whole person?

hmmm what color should i get?

Message edited by author 2014-04-11 07:04:28.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

04/11/2014 07:29:25 AM · #14

i prefer boring black ;-)

and yes, 48" is large enough for a whole person. but, if you find you need more, you still have 60 days to swap it out for larger and only pay the difference plus shipping.

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

04/11/2014 09:49:07 AM · #15

If you can swing a little more the Einstein's are excellent. They are built a little sturdier than the AB's and they have a much larger power range and also have the ability to fire quickly to stop action if you ever wanted to use that. I currently have two AB800's and one Einstein with many modifiers. Think about the modifiers you will want and what you plan on using the most, if you want a huge octabank or plm modifier, remember that they will eat up some of your power. For the most part though the 800's work well for me outside trying to overpower the sun and can go low enough with a modifier to do small studio work. Just about all of my artificial lighting has been done with this system.

For this shot I was covering an event and had my assistant carrying the Einstein on a monopod with the vagabond mini and beauty dish while I had the camera and radio trigger. Not the lightest system but it wasn't horrible and it gave me a lot of options for lighting.

This was taken in an old theater with no option for power so I used the same setup. Easy enough to handle on my own. I don't think you will be disappointed. They do feel cheap but I have had one blow over and luckily still works, so maybe they are a little more sturdy than they feel.

04/11/2014 01:48:39 PM · #16

im wondering if i should get this and then upgrade to alien bees or something else later. i dont do a whole lot of studio work. or should i go for a single higher powered light and larger modifier?

thoughts?

//www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/402654-REG/Impact_EX100A_2KI_Two_Monolight_Kit.html

Message edited by author 2014-04-11 13:51:56.

Fujifilm XF 35mm f/2 R WR

04/11/2014 03:03:42 PM · #17

Originally posted by Mike:

I started out with a very similar, very cheap setup like this. It was a fabulous learning tool for all sorts of reasons and didn't put me out of pocket to the point where I felt cheated. I learned to move them around, play with modifiers (which were included in the kit), and understand refresh rate, power needs, etc. At that point I had outgrown the kit and knew what I wanted.

pgirish007

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 24-70 2.8L II

04/11/2014 03:15:15 PM · #18

I started with this. I won't say it is great but at that time It worked for me.

cmcphee

Fujifilm X-T3

04/14/2014 12:31:16 PM · #19

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by Mike:
and where can i buy them? BH adorama and amazon only sell brackets and a google serach doesnt seem to have leads...

And therein lies the DISADVANTAGE of ABs. They are available only via the Paul C. Buff website, so if something breaks or stops working, there's no store you can run to for a replacement part.

I'm in Canada and I had to call PCB for a replacement umbrella. It arrived within 2 days. Their customer service has been a pleasure to deal with on a couple of occasions - absolutely first-class.

bobnospum

Sony Alpha a77 II

Tamron AF 70-200mm f/2.8 Di LD IF Macro Lens for Sony

04/14/2014 03:42:34 PM · #20

I have had very good luck with Adorama Flashpoint brand for the last two years. Model 320M has 150ws for $100 bucks. Kind of hard to go wrong. I seriously considered Alien Bees but for the low amount of use I put them though, I put the money into a big softbox instead.

kiwinick

Sony DSLR-A550

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

04/14/2014 04:30:56 PM · #21

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by Mike:
im wondering if i should get this and then upgrade to alien bees or something else later. i dont do a whole lot of studio work. or should i go for a single higher powered light and larger modifier?

thoughts?

//www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/402654-REG/Impact_EX100A_2KI_Two_Monolight_Kit.html

I started out with a very similar, very cheap setup like this. It was a fabulous learning tool for all sorts of reasons and didn't put me out of pocket to the point where I felt cheated. I learned to move them around, play with modifiers (which were included in the kit), and understand refresh rate, power needs, etc. At that point I had outgrown the kit and knew what I wanted.

I would go with this or similar, with a 2head set you get the basic Main light and fill light configuration which is a big start and gives you versitility

04/14/2014 08:56:58 PM · #22

well, if it wasn't stupid passover...

of course, I procrastinated yet again.