Trying to learn - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

11/25/2013 03:06:12 AM · #1

Hi, I would greatly appreciate some feedback/instruction on my photo please. I am trying to get better results from my composites but seem to use only the same basic steps in photoshop (I am trying to broaden my knowledge in the little spare time I have these days trying different blend modes ect..)I'm not sure this image is quite 'seated' together. Briefly this is what I have done so far

The photo of Ivy was one I had taken previously and I photographed the leaf near a window using available light.
The background is a stock photo.
Basically I have just selected and placed Ivy on the leaf. I adjusted exposure separately on the leaf and Ivy to try to match them better. Also some dogde and burn on the leaf to add shadow to try and ground her and also under the leaf to make it float. All layers used are in normal mode, is there other blending modes I should be using to get that unified look?

I am overall really happy with my result but feel it is lacking in that final polished 'realistic' look.

All input is very welcome.

Message edited by author 2013-11-25 03:07:22.

giantmike

Canon EOS R6

11/25/2013 07:17:32 AM · #2

So, this is never going to have the realistic look. Why? Because the proportions are so out of whack. I have never known of a leaf to have a 4 foot diameter. Because of that, this will always look like a kid that was photo shopped onto a leaf.

The other thing that you have to consider to make this look real is the light and shadows. The light coming onto the kid looks to be coming from the camera position. Yet, she casts no shadow.
The light coming on to the left is coming from behind the scene, and it casts a noticeable shadow.
Those two light sources don't mesh at all.

Finally, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm being honest. You need to stop and ask yourself why. What is the reasoning for the composite? In my experience, a composite needs to have pieces that work together to tell a story, rather that pieces that are thrown together to try to "jazz up" a portrait.

For instance, look at the works that

gyaban puts together. Each one of these tells and overall story. So while many may not have the realistic look, he has a fantasy scene in in mind (that is the why he is doing it), and he does a superb job matching light and shadows of the individual elements.

Message edited by author 2013-11-25 07:17:54.

snaffles

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/25/2013 07:59:16 AM · #3

+1 on everything

giantmike said. For PhotoChop projects like that,you do need serious PS sklls to be able to blend everything.

Gyaban is a master of this particular art; like Mike said his stuff although usually fantastical scenes, look realistic due to the astounding level of care he takes to make sure everything fits in together.

Look at his latest winner, Another Brick - his figures have density and mass to them, they cast realistic shadows. Your leaf casts a shadow onto the bg, but the fingers of the child doesn't...and for a shot like that you have to shadows matching seamlessly.

Message edited by author 2013-11-25 08:03:29.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

11/25/2013 08:36:38 AM · #4

The point of view is too different on the shots. The leaf is turned up on it's side, yet you're shooting down on the child. It's ok to have a four foot leaf -- people can disband belief for that, just like that can in christophe's work, but the physics has to make sense. If she was really sitting down hard on her bottom, she would tip the leaf over, and the leaf would be flat on the floor, not tipped up.

This is the difficulty that I know I have with composites -- getting things in the right angles and the right POVs. That has to happen before you even think about lighting, imo. (or at the same time, even more likely.)

On this one, the chicken was actually on the floor, so I figured I had to shoot from the same vantage point for him as I did with the guy. If I'm shooting straight on for the guy at the table, I'd be shooting straight on for the chicken. So since the chicken was on the floor, I laid down on the floor and shot. I can't look down on a chicken and look straight out at a guy all in the same shot:

If you're shooting the child from above, you should shoot the leaf from above so that they make sense together.

Message edited by author 2013-11-25 08:37:11.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

11/25/2013 08:43:38 AM · #5

Not to add fuel to the fire, but aside from the lighting issues, another thing you seem to be missing is matching the PPI between the images you're compositing. The leaf seems to have fewer PPI than the baby.

Tiny

Apple iPad mini 4

11/25/2013 09:55:53 AM · #6

I believe I am right in saying that

Gyaban has learnt all his skills from the internet, which impresses me much.

11/26/2013 08:08:36 PM · #7

Thank you all for your input.

giantmike I knew when I used the word realistic it was the wrong choice, I was wanting to get that finished all together look such as those of [user]Gyaban [/user. Also I hadn't thought about the composition to much, really I was simply practicing with what I had available to me. But your comment re that is food for thought. And [user]vawendy[/user]I actually had taken the shot of the leaf from above, but I also noticed that tipping effect, must be from the lighting angle I guess. So I am now realising I really, really have to get all the lighting angles the same from the start for it to make any sense at all and start looking 'realistic'. Spork99 that is a very interesting observation I would never had even thought about that, so what does that mean, I need to resize all the images to the same dimension and PPI before I use them.?

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

11/27/2013 08:50:09 AM · #8

Originally posted by thrumyiis:

Spork99 that is a very interesting observation I would never had even thought about that, so what does that mean, I need to resize all the images to the same dimension and PPI before I use them.?

Yes. I assume that you're using layers and bringing in each component on its own layer, so you'd need to make all of the layers the same size and PPI before you flatten

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/27/2013 06:44:39 PM · #9

OK thanks for the info.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

11/27/2013 08:02:08 PM · #10

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by thrumyiis:
Spork99 that is a very interesting observation I would never had even thought about that, so what does that mean, I need to resize all the images to the same dimension and PPI before I use them.?

Yes. I assume that you're using layers and bringing in each component on its own layer, so you'd need to make all of the layers the same size and PPI before you flatten

When you paste or place an image of a different resolution onto a layer it will automatically take on the resolution (dpi) of the target image, which may cause it to need to be scaled (dimensionally) to compensate. I think the same happens if you drag-and-drop a layer from one document to another.

tanguera

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

11/27/2013 11:18:43 PM · #11

To achieve that "realistic" fantasy quality (a clearly invented scene which nonetheless possesses realistic qualities), your components (as others have pointed out) must all have at least 3 things:

The same directional lighting
The same pov
proportional shooting (i.e., if you're looking straight on at a man and there's a flying saucer above him, and a magic carpet below him - all shot separately - you'd have to shoot the flying saucer from a slightly lower pov and the carpet from a slightly higher one.

Details: SHADOWS!!!!! Everything casts a shadow. Even in your image, at the place where Ivy's skin meets the leaf, there'd be even the slightest hint of a shadow. Place your hand on the desk in front of you. Even if the light is above you, there's going to be a slight shadow between the hand and the surface of the desk. When compositing, I am always astounded when, at the very end, just adding these tiny touches brings it to life. But the shadow has to match the light source - if the light is near or far, the shadow has to be either soft or sharp.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/28/2013 05:38:56 AM · #12

Ok, so shadows, what's the best way to put them in? dodge and burn on a non destructive layer?

Tiny

Apple iPad mini 4

11/28/2013 07:18:13 AM · #13

There are many ways and you tube will give you them all,this is one.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vcqPuTHVm8

Message edited by author 2013-11-28 07:18:47.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

11/28/2013 10:40:48 AM · #14

Originally posted by tanguera:

If you shoot near midday with significant overcast the shadows and POV will be slightly less critical ...