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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> One way to kill shadows made by flash
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01/20/2013 07:30:16 PM · #1
Hey all

Been having episodes of FF (flash frustration) recently, mostly because I never had a flash before and now I have an SB-910, a pro-level flash. Technically speaking it is the only professional calibre piece of equipment I own, and wading through the poorly written Nikon manual only drives me insane.

So the only way for me to learn how to effectively use the flash is to use it. Which I have been doing a lot, mostly in studio. Recently, I was shooting for a challenge and getting frustrated by shadows cast by the SB910, no matter how I angled it and bounced it off surfaces.

Talk about the horns of a dilemma. If I dialled down the flash too much the subject would not get lit at all. Dialled up to the power at which I needed it, like an eigth, and blam, shadows. The flashhead was already equipped with a diffuser but needed something more.

Went rummaging in my utility room and found a magickal material that, when wrapped in 2-3 layers around the flashhead, did a fantastic job of breaking up that powerful light and shadows but not killing its effectiveness in the slightest.

I am delighted with the results, and thus strongly recommend that anyone with similar problems go and get or dig up some of this fantastic stuff - aka plain ol transparent bubble wrap - and put it to good use. Cheap, easy to get ahold of, takes up little room, weighs nothing, and IT WORKS!!!
01/20/2013 07:57:59 PM · #2
Clean out plastic milk cartons work as well, get yourself reading strobist blog, watching snap factory videos on you tube and you'll improve with every shoot.

Message edited by author 2013-01-21 01:49:29.
01/20/2013 07:59:04 PM · #3
Nice. Bubble wrap diffuser.
01/20/2013 08:07:39 PM · #4
Originally posted by Giles_uk:

Clean out plastic milk cartons work as well, get yourself reading strobing, watching snap factory videos on you tube and you'll improve with every shoot.


I have used certain brands of ice cream containers that offer the same effect, though that was with floods not flashes, along with waxed paper. Must get high-speed so I can try your other suggestions. Thanks Giles!
01/20/2013 08:17:30 PM · #5
I've tried without success to get a diffuser for my little Canon flash without ordering online from a foreign website, so I'll definitely give the bubblewrap a try. Thanks.
01/21/2013 01:38:58 AM · #6
Are you using the flash bare or with an umbrella and stand?

Message edited by author 2013-01-21 01:39:12.
01/21/2013 09:08:52 AM · #7
Originally posted by RamblinR:

Are you using the flash bare or with an umbrella and stand?


I was using it bare, with the supplied diffuser on it, bubblewrapped 2-3 layers deep on it. Nowhere near the whole umbrella and stand setup!!
01/21/2013 11:21:13 AM · #8
When you say "shadows" do you mean on the subject, or projected behind them? For the latter, how close was the subject to the wall? If you have the room, separating the subject from the bg another couple of feet will also eliminate the shadow issue.
01/21/2013 11:24:24 AM · #9
I've never killed a shadow before but I got into a boxing match with one once.
01/21/2013 11:29:17 AM · #10
Originally posted by smardaz:

I've never killed a shadow before but I got into a boxing match with one once.


Who won?
01/21/2013 12:12:57 PM · #11
Originally posted by tanguera:

When you say "shadows" do you mean on the subject, or projected behind them? For the latter, how close was the subject to the wall? If you have the room, separating the subject from the bg another couple of feet will also eliminate the shadow issue.


Flash shadows were being cast by the subject on the wall which was approx 6 ft behind subject. Did try to move subject further from wall but resulted in compromising the composition. I think I shot at either flash power 1-8th or 1-16th, angled at the wall, and camera was a good 12-15ft from subject.
01/21/2013 12:27:04 PM · #12
Originally posted by snaffles:


Flash shadows were being cast by the subject on the wall which was approx 6 ft behind subject. Did try to move subject further from wall but resulted in compromising the composition. I think I shot at either flash power 1-8th or 1-16th, angled at the wall, and camera was a good 12-15ft from subject.


That tells me that you effectively had a point light source. In order to soften the light, you need to (greatly) increase the size of the light source. Imagine yourself in the position of the subject, looking at the light source. The larger the size of the source appears to the subject, the softer the light.

As an experiment, try bouncing the flash off a white ceiling. Or, create a large white reflector (a white painted piece of cardboard will suffice) and mount it to your left (or right) at 45 degrees to camera and subject. Aim the flash head at the reflector, set the flash zoom manually to a focal length of 100mm or more, and shoot, bouncing the light off the reflector.
01/21/2013 12:32:40 PM · #13
Also, a shallower dof will help a bit.
01/21/2013 12:40:02 PM · #14
or use the reflector to complement to main light, by using it to bounce the spilled light back onto your subject into the shadow areas.

for instance the sun is a large single point light in the sky, without any diffusion it creates shadows. even later in the day or early morning when its not as direct you still need to fill in those shadow areas with a reflector or flash.

the only time you really dont is when its cloudy and the sky is acting as a huge soft box.

i'd get some sort of bounce card on the back of the flash to direct more light to the subject and another reflector to bounce that light into the shadow area.
01/21/2013 12:41:49 PM · #15
@ kirbic....the only other light I could have used would have been a flood, which might have worked, but I didnèt think it would be strong enough to do the job. Tried bouncing the flash off both walls, ceiling, even floor and STILL got flash shadow. Do have a 42in reflector but needed to use it to diffuse another light source.

Pretty much the only thing I didnèt try, mostly cause Ièm still learning the flash, was setting the zoom manually to a focal length of 100 mm. Dèoh!

@ tanguera...hmm I doubt a shallower dof would have worked in this case....if interested PM me (though I have to leave for work soon, may not get back to you til this evening.)
01/21/2013 12:46:35 PM · #16
It's a lot of information, but I've found the Strobist lighting tutorials to be amazing at teaching how to manipulate light to get whatever effect you want.

The 101 series goes over all the basics.
The 102 series is a set of projects based off what you learn in the 101 series.

Good luck with your new toy. It can be both fun and frustrating, but opens up a whole new world of possibilities.
01/21/2013 12:46:39 PM · #17
An inexpensive shoot through (white) umbrella and stand can be had for about $25, and you can use your flash off camera using your camera's commander mode. That will greatly improve your results.

I second the recommendation of the strobist website. Look at the "lighting 101" section.
01/21/2013 12:48:35 PM · #18
Oh this thread is a wealth of knowledge!!! Keep on adding... I don't know why "flashs" are the bane of our exsistance but they seem to be, I've got a 3 light studio strobe set up that I feel more comfortable with than that little scarey box I can put on my camera, oooo gives me the willies just thinking about it...

One thing I can never figure out with out shooting a dozen or so is dial it too much dial it down too little... this is ok if you've got a static stubject BUT shooting a horsey or dog or CAT eeeeks.... sooo is there a rule of thumb on how many stops to add light with out blowing n getting shadows... Hubby bought me a little attach to the head of the flash little soft box... I can say this thing although looks kinda stooopid works wonders ... espically on up close shots, faces, FEET... LOL

More Ideas I want MORE IDEAS....
01/21/2013 01:30:35 PM · #19
+1 on the Strobist recommendation. I am really glad I was able to pick up the Lighting in Layers DVDs so reasonably back in December! I attended the FlashBus Tour and found it extremely informative. Of the two presenters, David Hobby's philosophy to be best in line with my mindset (read control-freak, LOL).
01/21/2013 01:34:03 PM · #20
Originally posted by snaffles:

...Tried bouncing the flash off both walls, ceiling, even floor and STILL got flash shadow.


Probably what was happening was that the flash was still directly "visible" to the subject, thus you got some direct lighting from it. The shadow should then have been sharp, but much lighter than without the bounce. Even a lighter shadow can be very distracting though!
To avoid the shadow altogether, you have to eliminate the direct point-source light.
01/21/2013 01:44:38 PM · #21
Originally posted by kirbic:

+1 on the Strobist recommendation. I am really glad I was able to pick up the Lighting in Layers DVDs so reasonably back in December! I attended the FlashBus Tour and found it extremely informative. Of the two presenters, David Hobby's philosophy to be best in line with my mindset (read control-freak, LOL).


LOLOL. I spent a couple of years going through the strobist website, reading it like a fiend, trying things, buying videos, reading "Light, Science and Magic," and trying more things. I got pretty good at lighting stuff. Then I got burned out, got busy with other things, and didn't shoot anything that required a flash for 3 years. Now when I need flash, I put up a single shoot through umbrella with an SB-600 in ttl mode, and whack away, and get similar results to what I had with all that painstaking manual work...go figure. I'd still recommend strobist, though.
01/21/2013 01:46:12 PM · #22
Can you post an example at all? It would be good to see the issue. As everyone has said bouncing the flash away from the subject works quite nicely, just be aware of color casts caused by different colored walls, etc.

I'm not sure if someone mentioned, but the omni-bounce diffuser is pretty nice when you are really trying to fill in every shadow. I mean, it does a very good job of filling in a subject, background, etc, sometimes to the flaw where the image looks flat. But, just like anything else, its another tool with its own purpose.
01/21/2013 01:50:22 PM · #23
Originally posted by Ann:

...Now when I need flash, I put up a single shoot through umbrella with an SB-600 in ttl mode, and whack away, and get similar results to what I had with all that painstaking manual work...go figure. I'd still recommend strobist, though.


Ah, but you know how to use that single light to best effect, and you recognize what you are (and are not) giving up with the simple set-up. I too tend to the simple side of lighting things. In fact, I'm pretty much a natural light kind of guy in situations where that's possible... but I need to know how to get great results when that's not possible.
01/21/2013 01:53:17 PM · #24
Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by Ann:

...Now when I need flash, I put up a single shoot through umbrella with an SB-600 in ttl mode, and whack away, and get similar results to what I had with all that painstaking manual work...go figure. I'd still recommend strobist, though.


Ah, but you know how to use that single light to best effect, and you recognize what you are (and are not) giving up with the simple set-up. I too tend to the simple side of lighting things. In fact, I'm pretty much a natural light kind of guy in situations where that's possible... but I need to know how to get great results when that's not possible.


Indeed, I totally agree. It's all that work I put in before that makes it possible to get good results without much effort now.
01/21/2013 05:44:17 PM · #25
STOOOPID QUESTION 101 I just went thru a lot of strobist sight... I've got books n books on lighting... YET there is one question for which I've NEVER found the answer (well maybe two) 1) How do you determine how much light to add to a shot... yeah I know that's subjective but, where do I start.... 2) My flash has TTL (which I friggin always use cause Ihave no idea how to use) Mh or Ml I'm sure you can set the manual modes some how, it's a sigma ef-530 dgst but ???????????? Anyone .... point me to the direction that has How to figure out the simple junk....
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