| Author | Thread |
|
|
04/07/2012 06:22:29 PM · #1 |
My monitor is about 5 yrs old now. What I've noticed is whenever I edit photos I have to move my head around the photos to make sure that the colors/brightness are even all around. Different angles show it darker and when I view it from my wife's computer I see I didn't darken or brighten or do something enough/too little.
I tried setting up my monitor color calibration several times. Unfortunately, when I start up Photoshop it gives me a warning that 'The color profile of the monitor is incorrectly set (Or something like that) and can't be used."
As part of my pre-summer upgrade on things, I've decided to get a monitor...not just for editing photos but video as well, gamin etc. Was wondering what people out in the DPC world use. I asked a local electronics store what was popular amongst photographers and he pointed me to a 2000USD monitor, way out of my budget range.
Anyone? |
|
|
|
04/07/2012 06:40:33 PM · #2 |
What we need to know is...
1.) What *is* your budget?
2.) What size monitor are you looking at?
3.) How hard-core are you where gaming is concerned?
Bottom line, the reason your current monitor makes you move your head around is that it's most likely a "TN" type panel. They have fast response time, so they are what gamers prefer, but they have really bad gamma shifts with viewing angle, and so they absolutely *suck* for serious photography work. They are also the cheapest panels for any given size/resolution.
The next step in the right direction for photo work are the PVA panels, which may be acceptable, and don't carry an obscenely high price. The best panels are the s-IPS panels. They have the highest prices, and also the slowest response times, so they are less desirable for gaming. On the very high end, yoiu have the "pro" monitors that have s-IPS panels, are 10-bit color capable, and have other features geared to color-critical work. These are the $2000+ monitors that your were pointed at.
You should be able to get a good 24" class monitor that will blow the doors off what you are using today for $550 or so. The Dell U2410 is one potentially good choice. Review of that one here.
|
|
|
|
04/08/2012 08:59:02 AM · #3 |
My price range is about 500USD
24 inches is what I use now, I'd like to stay within that size
I love games, but not as much as photography. I could always put my current screen to the side and plug it in to play games when I want (If a newer monitor isn't as good for gaming). I'll take a look at the Dell... |
|
|
|
04/08/2012 10:51:10 AM · #4 |
There are sub $1000 10-bit color capable monitors as well:
There's the NEC PA241w and the Asus PA246Q(sub $500). The NEC is a breeze to calibrate, but switched to the Asus as the antiglare coating was less of a bother but I miss the NEC as it was easier to tweak. They pretty much use the same LG panel (as do the $2000 Eizo's). Samsung has recently released it's own sort of panel they call PLS. Though I have no idea how well it applies as a gaming monitor. You can search for Samsung S24A850DW on www.hardforum.com.
|
|
|
|
04/09/2012 01:10:01 PM · #5 |
Asus PA246Q 24\" LCD Monitor. This P-IPS (information on PIPS can be found //en,wikipedia,org/wiki/TFT_LCD]here) screen is ideal for easy calibration and displays a ridiculous gamut. Hits just under 500 dollars too. Here\'s the \"but\", its a 6ms GTG. Meaning likely much worse BTW (information on response time technology can be found here. If you\'re not pro-gaming, this would be passable i suppose, but definitely purchase through a company with a good RMA reputation like Amazon or newegg incase thats a big issue for you. I imagine if you RTS, or FPS, it may be an issue at the top of your game.
The dell u2410 is a top contendor H-IPS panel. IT just grazes past your pricepoint and has a documented lag time of 14.4 ms i believe, which is pretty decent (6ms for the GTG). Always a good thing
One ridiculously inexpensive option from NEC is the Ea232WMI. This e-ips puppy costs about half of the other guys and for good reason. Its not in the same league. However, if you mostly work in srgb, and are seriously considering a dual monitor setup, this might be a go-to. its got a slow response time but a very decent lagtime in \"game-mode\".
I hope this information helps a little.
|
|
|
|
04/10/2012 01:09:54 PM · #6 |
I've benn using an HP LP2475W and I'm very pleased.
Should be on your budget and it's quite nice and easy to calibrate. Here's a review:
LP2475W
|
|
|
|
04/14/2012 11:34:31 AM · #7 |
Asus PA246Q offer prices - link
|
|
|
|
04/14/2012 04:21:18 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Nuno:
I've benn using an HP LP2475W and I'm very pleased.
Should be on your budget and it's quite nice and easy to calibrate. Here's a review:
LP2475W |
I use this monitor (HP LP2475W) as well. I bought mine as my Christmas present in 2010, and have had zero issues with it in the last 16 months. I love it, and I calibrate it with my Spyder3Studio kit every month. It holds its calibration extremely well. Rather than go through the full calibration from scratch each month I first run the "Check Current Calibration" utility first to see if it's changed. I really never does....it's that good.
Dave
Message edited by author 2012-04-14 16:21:35. |
|
|
|
04/14/2012 06:50:04 PM · #9 |
| I was in your same boat about 6 months ago, wanting to upgrade my monitor and needed it for gaming as well. After reading several positive customer reviews from other photographers, I gave THIS one a try. It's used exclusively for CS5 and SWTOR ;) and I really like it. LED, 5 ms response time, and 3mil contrast ratio. |
|
|
|
04/14/2012 08:18:02 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by OverflowStudios:
I was in your same boat about 6 months ago, wanting to upgrade my monitor and needed it for gaming as well. After reading several positive customer reviews from other photographers, I gave THIS one a try. It's used exclusively for CS5 and SWTOR ;) and I really like it. LED, 5 ms response time, and 3mil contrast ratio. |
FWIW, this monitor has a TN panel. Great for gaming, not so great for critical color work. It's not in the same class as some of the other monitors discussed above... but it is about 40% less money. It also has LED backlighting which in a television is fine, but in a monitor results in reduced color gamut. Again, nice for energy efficiency, not so nice for color accuracy.
|
|
|
|
05/16/2012 12:47:45 PM · #11 |
I was reading through the monitor posts and came across this recent one.
I have a couple questions...
What criteria defines "not good for" or "great for" gaming? My system is built for photo/video processing and general office type work and very little gaming. I would say there is one 'game' I play in which I'm at full screen utilizing the processing of the SINGLE graphics card I have (single should tell you that its not a gaming computer).
What would be the effect of playing a game (utilizing 3D rendering) on a monitor that is "not good for" gaming? I suppose to answer that you need the frame rate of the game. If so, I can get that later.
So, in reading a little more here (haven't gone outside yet), am I right in understanding that LED screens are brighter which make them better for video and gaming? Are the standard LCD screens fluorescent backlit and therefore better for photo?
I understand the best way to see is to compare. But when comparing, what specifically am I looking for?
Thanks. |
|
|
|
05/16/2012 01:18:44 PM · #12 |
In brief:
- A good gaming monitor has a very fast refresh rate, in order to minimize motion blurring. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. All else is secondary. TN type LCD panels have the fastest refresh rates, and are also the cheapest.
- All flat-screen computer monitors (currently) are LCD panels, of three main types: IPS (in-plane switching)PVA (Patterned vertical Alignment) and TN (Twisted Nematic). For a more complete discussion go here.
- LCD panel backlights are either fluorescent or LED.
- A monitor may have any combination of panel type and backlight type
The linked page gives some good information as to the advantages/disadvantages of the various main panel types, and also there is discussion of the recent "flavors" of the main types that have been marketed.
With regard to backlights, LED backlights are more power-efficient, but almost all of them use "white" LEDs, not a combination of R, G and B LEDs. The emission spectrum of hte white LEDs is not as good as a fluorescent backlight, and therefore the gamut of an LED-backlit monitor will normally be smaller than the gamut of a fluorescent-backlit monitor.
|
|
|
|
05/16/2012 01:32:03 PM · #13 |
| Thanks. With respect to my aging 5 year old CRT, is refresh rate on an LCD the same as on the CRT? How to they compare? |
|
|
|
05/16/2012 03:53:00 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by PGerst:
Thanks. With respect to my aging 5 year old CRT, is refresh rate on an LCD the same as on the CRT? How to they compare? |
CRT refresh rates were about 60Hz (sometimes a little higher, up to about 75Hz). That's approximately equal to a 16-millisecond refresh rate. So most any LCD will refresh faster than a CRT.
Remember that an LCD monitor does not need to refresh line by line, so the achievable "frame rate" with an LCD is only limited by how fast the panel responds to input.
|
|
|
|
05/16/2012 06:48:22 PM · #15 |
Thanks for the comparison. For me, on a CRT, I can't view anything less than 100Hz without significant eye strain. I have a MultiSync FE992 that goes as high as 100Hz at 1024x768 and 85Hz at higher resolution. I keep this at 1024x768 because any higher becomes unbearable for me after a short while. So, it will be important for me I take it to have better than 10ms.
So, if I'm used to any game I play on my CRT, would I notice any real impact on a LED or standard LCD?
Originally posted by kirbic:
CRT refresh rates were about 60Hz (sometimes a little higher, up to about 75Hz). That's approximately equal to a 16-millisecond refresh rate. So most any LCD will refresh faster than a CRT.
Remember that an LCD monitor does not need to refresh line by line, so the achievable "frame rate" with an LCD is only limited by how fast the panel responds to input. |
|
|
|
|
09/16/2012 02:05:19 AM · #16 |
Aimed at the owners of a Dell U2410, did you calibrate your monitor as soon as it was installed? I have just installed mine, and the colours look a bit oversaturated, like the reds/oranges, for example.
I wanted to check before calibrating (if needed), unless there is something else I should do?
|
|
|
|
09/16/2012 01:30:13 PM · #17 |
*bump*
Message edited by author 2012-09-16 20:10:28. |
|
|
|
09/18/2012 01:55:08 PM · #18 |
| i own the asus, which apparently uses the same screen from LG? Mine was great out of the box. Infact, when i calibrate using my spyder, it shifts to yellows... so i just use the preset on that. Gotta call up spyder up one of these days to askem watup and how i can fixit |
|
|
|
09/18/2012 10:21:47 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Devinder:
i own the asus, which apparently uses the same screen from LG? Mine was great out of the box. Infact, when i calibrate using my spyder, it shifts to yellows... so i just use the preset on that. Gotta call up spyder up one of these days to askem watup and how i can fixit |
What settings are you using. Set it up using temp 6500, gamma 2.2 and brightness 120. Those are standards and your screen shouldn't look overly warm with those.
Dave |
|
|
|
09/18/2012 10:35:14 PM · #20 |
I've tried exactly those settings. I actually prefer my brightness a bit lower given my room settings. I've tried under controlled lighting, the spyder seems to shift to yellow. I've tried it on 2 more screens since, and its happening each time. For now i m using the standard default mode on my main monitor. For my laptop, (which shifts heavily to blue, i use the spyder settings because the yellow is not terribly bad. for my third monitor, i use spyder settings shifted slightly back to blue.
i've tried recalibrating, I've tried printing under the given settings, I've tried everything short of a colorpassport print against it. I figure its the calibration unit? i m really not sure. The spyders definitely getting something a bit off... just havent got around to fixing it yet. If you've got any suggestions, ild be happy to hear em! |
|
|
|
09/18/2012 11:41:18 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Devinder:
I've tried exactly those settings. I actually prefer my brightness a bit lower given my room settings. I've tried under controlled lighting, the spyder seems to shift to yellow. I've tried it on 2 more screens since, and its happening each time. For now i m using the standard default mode on my main monitor. For my laptop, (which shifts heavily to blue, i use the spyder settings because the yellow is not terribly bad. for my third monitor, i use spyder settings shifted slightly back to blue.
i've tried recalibrating, I've tried printing under the given settings, I've tried everything short of a colorpassport print against it. I figure its the calibration unit? i m really not sure. The spyders definitely getting something a bit off... just havent got around to fixing it yet. If you've got any suggestions, ild be happy to hear em! |
A few things to consider first:
1) I'm not sure what OS you run. I run Windows 7 Pro, with my HP LP2475w monitor. The gamut on this monitor is also large as it's an IPS monitor more than capable of displaying Adobe RGB. The windows OS itself does not recognize color management so even though I work in sRGB whenever I save a photo to my desktop the icons are generally over saturated compared to what the actual photo will look like in a color managed browser or my photo editing software. Due to the extra color gamut in Adobe RGB you will normally see more obvious saturation in the Reds and Yellows. Since your monitor apparently is an IPS as well keep that in mind when looking at your photos outside of any color managed software. This also effects system icons, desktop wallpapers etc.
2) One thing that people should do before calibrating their monitors that is often over looked is to shut off and/or remove any other programs that come with the monitor or are included in the operating system that effect color management. You do not want to try and calibrate a monitor that some other utility program already considers calibrated because it will skew the results. This includes the built in color management of Windows 7. TURN IT OFF. This includes any OEM configuration utilities for your driver card that store color management info. Turn that portion of the driver off or uninstall it entirely if it's a stand alone app specifically installed for this purpose. Once you do this...you also have to go into your graphics card properties and under the color management tab REMOVE any color space profile that may be loading into your graphics card at start up. You want to start your calibration with ZERO adjustments make by the OS, Color Management Profiles or third party utilities. Only after you have done this then:
Reset your monitor to factory defaults...even if the brightness is burning your retinas....leave it where it is. Contrast should normally be set to 50 percent as the starting point.
Also, make sure your monitor is set to the color space you will be calibrating in. I normally set my monitor to sRGB since I do my calibration and work in that color space. Make sure your monitor does have some default setting that auto adjustes ANY value or your display. For instance, some monitors have presets such as Dynamic, Sports, Movies, etc. that auto configure for the type of work or play you will be doing. Turn it off. YOU are going to tell the monitor how it needs to work to keep your calibration accurate. While I'm on that subject..remember that once you have it calibrated you NEVER want to adjust the brightness, contrast, color etc. after that. If you have a display that dims when you turn the lights down..shut that feature off. If you have a laptop that dims while on battery power to save energy etc. you should not be using it for any photography work. You want your display, and ambient light to be consistent all the time to match the lighting you will be working in. You mentioned you like to go a little darker than 120 due to your lighting. This means you like to work in a relatively darkened room. While this is your preference and you can certainly calibrate it that way keep in mind that once you do you need to always work in that same lighting for your calibration to remain accurate.
I have the whole Spyder studio kit that also does my printer, and has the ambient light meter etc. I don't normally use that feature because the lighting near my computer is always the same. If you have the ambient light sensor on yours you can keep it plugged in and the system will tell you when the light has changed too much either way for your current calibration. While that's cool...that also means that you either have to recalibrate your monitor or you have to save multiple profiles of varying degrees of lighting environments and switch to that profile when needed. In other words...if you calibrate with all the lights on normally you will need a profile for that. If you decide that at night you want the lights off or even lower, then you will have to calibrate your monitor under those conditions and save as a seperate profile that you would need to manually load into your card at that time. It's possible, but a bit tedious. I just prefer the consistent lighting. It's actually a pain, because each profile probably requires you to set your brightness (hardware wise) of your monitor to a different value to each profile so you would have to keep those numbers listed somewhere. As the monitor ages and starts to loose some of it's luminescence abilities...and they all do...constantly adjusting your brightness might no longer be a real option because the slightest difference in setting might throw off the profile data too much even if you set it back to where it was with the correct profile. Components weaken, and values start to slip. So to me...it's not worth it.
So anyway, do everything above, and then try those standard settings again. Make sure you're doing a full calibration, and I even have it check the grays as well. Make sure there is no direct light shining on your LCD. I would also try to avoid mixed lighting as well such as tungsten lamps along with CFL's etc. Remember, you were serious enough about your photography to get a good monitor and a calibration kit so all this small stuff really matters.
BTW...After removing all that software and making sure there is no color profile loading at start up into your graphics card I would reboot your system, and right before calibration check your color management tab again to make sure nothing loaded. Obviously, once you complete your calibration save it with a name that represents the date and time as well so you can remember which was the most recent in the future etc.
Hopefully some of this helps.
Dave |
|
|
|
09/18/2012 11:50:35 PM · #22 |
| Wow, I thought this was "What's a good monster?" Maybe as good as a banana. |
|
|
|
09/19/2012 10:21:17 AM · #23 |
Im running home premium. The main monitor is Asus PA246Q. the calibration unit is the spyder4pro.
The yellows have been fairly consistent across two different systems between 3 different models of monitors. Its more extreme on a factory laptop screen after calibration, but its there on all three. On the main monitor, the Asus, standard+srgb modes (really the only two i use on the monitor-usually just srgb) under factory settings don't display the yellows i see post spyder calibration. This makes me think its not a wide gamut issue.
My lightings pretty consistent- i try to be borderline nuts about the small things, but my ambient sensor does get use and is on for the heck of it. I recal when my lights are changed, and they\'re replaced entirely if one light goes out - no swapping. My monitors are all still in srgb, because I\'ve been getting consistent results and i keep in there. All settings are set to default when first calibrating, i adjust brightness during the process to keep in in close to that 100 cd/m2(rather than 120-this is after taking into account my ambient measure so its part of the calibration process- and thankfully easier on the eyes)
i\'ve not looked into disabling a graphics or OS color profiles. Will look into that when i get home - if this solves my yellows, i may owe you a beer.
Thanks for all your help so far! |
|
|
|
09/20/2012 09:50:38 AM · #24 |
somehow managed to not make it at home last night.... will do this tonight!
Message edited by author 2012-09-20 09:50:53. |
|
|
|
09/21/2012 10:40:42 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Devinder:
somehow managed to not make it at home last night.... will do this tonight! |
Spend the night in jail did ya? LOL!
Dave |
|
