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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Is it trespassing?
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 09/14/2011 03:00:18 PM · #1
There is a piece of land I'd like to go walk on. It's fairly easy to get to, and there are no 'no trespassing' signs on it that I could see. I've asked people, talked to adjacent land owners, gone down to the courthouse among other things trying to find some contact info. about the owners of the place. All I can find is the owner's name. Cottonwood Land and Farm LTD. No contact info.

Seeing I've tried so hard, is it OK just to walk on it, maybe get a few pics?

Please, only serious advice. I don't want to get in trouble!
 09/14/2011 03:03:11 PM · #2
COTTONWOOD LAND FARMS LTD
5540 CENTRAL AVE, STE 200
BOULDER, CO 80301-2998
 09/14/2011 03:04:19 PM · #3
if you made a serious attempt and you know you wont get shot at, i say go. if someone confronts you, just say you weren't sure if it was private properly, at that point, you can apologize and leave or ask permission to be there.
 09/14/2011 03:07:41 PM · #4
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. If you ask a central office, or an attorney, you know what the answer will be. If there are no big signs, then it is no big deal.
 09/14/2011 03:16:54 PM · #5
I say go until someone says otherwise.
 09/14/2011 03:31:56 PM · #6
No sign? No problem.
 09/14/2011 03:33:03 PM · #7
Thank you Strikeslip, for that info. I don't know how you found it! Unfortunately, they don't have a phone number. I guess I could send some type of letter to that physical address??

I will say, I'm extremely tempted just to go out there now. I won't be doing anything to the land (you may be able to see a few footprints :) ).

Any thing else I should think about?
 09/14/2011 03:34:28 PM · #8
No fence. No cattle. No problem. I'd go ahead and walk across. In general, if someone objects to my presence on their land, then I leave the property promptly without protest.

(Jokingly.... They only shoot Republicans in Boulder County.)

Message edited by author 2011-09-14 15:36:47.
 09/14/2011 03:34:36 PM · #9
Originally posted by ph0t0trip:
Thank you Strikeslip, for that info. I don't know how you found it! Unfortunately, they don't have a phone number. I guess I could send some type of letter to that physical address??

I will say, I'm extremely tempted just to go out there now. I won't be doing anything to the land (you may be able to see a few footprints :) ).

Any thing else I should think about?


Snakes, bugs, bear traps, land mines and pitfalls.
 09/14/2011 03:35:36 PM · #10
Every time this question is asked the responses never cease to amaze me. Private property isn't required to have No Trespassing signs on it people. Just because you can't see any, and you can't figure out how to contact the owner doesn't mean you can do what you want to.

I'm willing to bet that the large majority of people here who own houses or land don't have no trespassing signs on their property, yet most of you definitely wouldn't want some stranger walking onto your lawn or property to take a shot anytime they wanted.

People wonder why photographers are getting hassled by the police. Perhaps because this carefree attitude happens so often that every time they see a photographer doing the right thing they are still suspicious and need to check it out.

Dave

Message edited by author 2011-09-14 15:36:07.
 09/14/2011 03:42:22 PM · #11
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
Every time this question is asked the responses never cease to amaze me. Private property isn't required to have No Trespassing signs on it people. Just because you can't see any, and you can't figure out how to contact the owner doesn't mean you can do what you want to.

I'm willing to bet that the large majority of people here who own houses or land don't have no trespassing signs on their property, yet most of you definitely wouldn't want some stranger walking onto your lawn or property to take a shot anytime they wanted.

People wonder why photographers are getting hassled by the police. Perhaps because this carefree attitude happens so often that every time they see a photographer doing the right thing they are still suspicious and need to check it out.

Dave


He's got a point.. If the police aren't around, is it still illegal? Yup.
 09/14/2011 03:52:27 PM · #12
Given the litigious nature of our society, if a land owner is asked and gives permission for you to walk across his property and you get hurt, he is at fault. Which is why such permissions are either refused or result in waivers and paperwork that cost the land owners money. If you have crossed a fence, and you have no permissions, then you assume all risk for your activity (barring attractive nuisances and the like). My family owns a chunk of land, and while we try to keep cars off it (4X4 enthusiasts really rip up gravel roads like nothing else) and sign against hunting and trespassing, I could care less if someone wants to walk across it, as long as they respect the land and the things on it. Leave nothing but footprints and take nothing but pictures, but if you fall off a cliff, we told you not to go on there.
 09/14/2011 03:55:57 PM · #13
Just to be clear, I do understand exactly what you are saying, DCNUTTER. I actually just got off the phone with a ranger and a county ranger, discussing all of this. I don't want to take this lightly at all!

Thanks for the comments.

BTW, for anyone in Colorado, the state law says not to go on private property before getting permission from the owner. The ranger made it clear that he couldn't give me the go-ahead to go on the property, but said it might not be a big deal (seeing I can't locate the owner's info.). Sort of a gray area or something in my case... I'm still thinking maybe I should send a note down to boulder, though.
 09/14/2011 04:17:56 PM · #14
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Given the litigious nature of our society, if a land owner is asked and gives permission for you to walk across his property and you get hurt, he is at fault. Which is why such permissions are either refused or result in waivers and paperwork that cost the land owners money. If you have crossed a fence, and you have no permissions, then you assume all risk for your activity (barring attractive nuisances and the like). My family owns a chunk of land, and while we try to keep cars off it (4X4 enthusiasts really rip up gravel roads like nothing else) and sign against hunting and trespassing, I could care less if someone wants to walk across it, as long as they respect the land and the things on it. Leave nothing but footprints and take nothing but pictures, but if you fall off a cliff, we told you not to go on there.


not to go off topic, but i beg to differ, if someone breaks into my yard and drowns in my pool, i can get sued. if someone breaks into my house and i injure them defending my house, they can sue me.

just becuase you disallow or deter entrance doesn't resolve you of all risk.

Message edited by author 2011-09-14 16:48:12.
 09/14/2011 04:24:35 PM · #15
Originally posted by mike_311:
they can use me.

just becuase you disallow or deter entrance doesn't resolve you of all risk.


How do you like to be used?
 09/14/2011 04:24:39 PM · #16
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Given the litigious nature of our society, if a land owner is asked and gives permission for you to walk across his property and you get hurt, he is at fault. Which is why such permissions are either refused or result in waivers and paperwork that cost the land owners money. If you have crossed a fence, and you have no permissions, then you assume all risk for your activity (barring attractive nuisances and the like). My family owns a chunk of land, and while we try to keep cars off it (4X4 enthusiasts really rip up gravel roads like nothing else) and sign against hunting and trespassing, I could care less if someone wants to walk across it, as long as they respect the land and the things on it. Leave nothing but footprints and take nothing but pictures, but if you fall off a cliff, we told you not to go on there.


not to go off topic, but i beg to differ, if someone breaks into my yard and drowns in my pool, i can get sued. if someone breaks into my house and i injure them defending my house, they can use me.

just becuase you disallow or deter entrance doesn't resolve you of all risk.


It all depends on what state you are in.. In NY If you have a fence around your pool and the gate is closed, if someone were to jump the fence, break it and drown in your pool. You are not liable. (I believe, don't quote me on this).

Anyone a lawyer here???
 09/14/2011 04:25:05 PM · #17
Originally posted by mike_311:
... just becuase you disallow or deter entrance doesn't resolve you of all risk.

That's why I've erected an electrified, razorwire fence around my property. It'll mess anybody up before they can get onto my property.
 09/14/2011 04:30:25 PM · #18
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by mike_311:
... just becuase you disallow or deter entrance doesn't resolve you of all risk.

That's why I've erected an electrified, razorwire fence around my property. It'll mess anybody up before they can get onto my property.


And when someone tries to get on your property and they get messed up by your fence, they can now sue you :)
 09/14/2011 04:31:55 PM · #19
Originally posted by mike_311:
if someone breaks into my yard and drowns in my pool, i can get sued. if someone breaks into my house and i injure them defending my house, they can use me.


The pool is classified as an attractive nuisance and special care must be protected as such. Here in California that means a 6 foot non-scalable fence, with a self closing door, and a knob 48" off the ground. As for the rest of it, yes they can sue, and they will lose. Anyone can sue anyone. You have to have the law on your side to win (or a much better lawyer).
 09/14/2011 04:33:20 PM · #20
Originally posted by IAmEliKatz:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by mike_311:
... just becuase you disallow or deter entrance doesn't resolve you of all risk.

That's why I've erected an electrified, razorwire fence around my property. It'll mess anybody up before they can get onto my property.


And when someone tries to get on your property and they get messed up by your fence, they can now sue you :)

Not if I shoot them first! [[ETA.... KIDDING, KIDDING !!!]] ;-D

Message edited by author 2011-09-14 16:34:01.
 09/14/2011 04:54:08 PM · #21
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
(or a much better lawyer).


that's my whole point. NJ has the same laws but even though i got permits and my yard meets every code, i still maintain all risk.

personal accountability has been thrown entirely out the window and it sucks.

i know of someone that got sued becuase he shot someone who broke into his house. They would be burgler sued him and won, the homeowner got dropped by his insurance carrier and had to pay enormous premiums just to stay insured with high risk underwriters.

if someone breaks into your house, shoot for the head.
 09/14/2011 05:01:36 PM · #22
Originally posted by ph0t0trip:
It's fairly easy to get to...


I can just see the lawyer now..."and so you considered the fence you walked through to fall under the domain of 'fairly easy access'"?

Questions like this are posted when the OP knows the answer already. It is tresspassing. Period. Will you get in trouble for it? That's the better question. You roll the dice you takes your chances. Nobody on this site can give you much helpful advice because nobody knows the area, the owner, the land, etc.

Let's put it in these terms. Let's say you go on the land and then someone does stop you and gets the law involved. What leg are you going to stand on? A bunch of advice from DPC? :) The lie you didn't know it wasn't private property?
 09/14/2011 05:48:29 PM · #23
Calm down. :) When I said, "It's fairly easy to get to", I mean that on one side of the property there isn't a fence, and on the rest, the fence is a little here and a little there.

I do agree that it would be best to talk to people who have seen the land. Just don't make huge assumptions about what I am thinking. The last thing I would do is lie about what I'm doing to an officer or the owner. I entered this post because it seem there are a lot of experienced landscape photographers on this site who might know how to go about certain things like this...
 09/14/2011 06:17:38 PM · #24
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
(or a much better lawyer).


that's my whole point. NJ has the same laws but even though i got permits and my yard meets every code, i still maintain all risk.

I believe that's why you (and possibly your bank) pay to have some insurance company assume the risk ...
 09/14/2011 07:10:18 PM · #25
Originally posted by ph0t0trip:
I entered this post because it seem there are a lot of experienced landscape photographers on this site who might know how to go about certain things like this...


There are. And a lot of them tresspass. :)

Actually I've been in your exact situation. Wanted to shoot some pictures in a poplar stand grown in nice rows (not the one I have on my profile). I had no idea who owned the property so I knocked at the nearest farmhouse. The lady was hilarious and said she thought the owners lived down the street somewhere but if anybody stopped me, "tell 'em Vickie said it was ok!"

So, you know, odds are you'd be just fine. But I'm a little more cautious these days as I know of at least one DPC photographer who got in real trouble with the law for tresspassing and he wasn't doing anything that hasn't been done a zillion times before by others. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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