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03/21/2011 09:01:11 AM · #1 |
Hi Forum,
I am pretty new to digital photography, especially off camera lighting. I understand the principles of 5 variants:- aperture, shutter speed, ISO, Flash Power and light to subject distance, and have come up with some well exposed images. But, what I am struggling to work on at the moment is positioning/angling of the light source in relation to the subject and how this affects the way the light falls on the subject and creates nice or nasty shadows/highlights.
I am learning to create and control the light and I understand the difference between soft and hard and what can create this, i.e. bigger the softer etc. But, I am still getting, in my view crappy images because of where I place my light source.
There are wonderful tutorials on the 5 variants, I have seen some great example lighting setups, i.e. birds eye views, and I have seen advise on posing a model. I have tried to find a simple setup, i.e. one 28" softbox with speed light and then recreate that image as a trial.
Where I am getting a headache is understanding how positioning/angling the light source with various modifiers on the horizontal and vertical planes, in relation to the subject and camera affects the look of the image by the way the light & shadow falls.
I guess the easiest way is to get a model and run each modifier at various angles, heights etc, etc, but I was hoping to find some resources to give me a head start.
Any ideas.
Gratefully
Matt |
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03/21/2011 09:23:10 AM · #2 |
I've seen some catalogs people have made online, but I can't for the life of me find one for you.
No need for a model though, just make your own. Set timer sit down. But remember that pose, as well as facial structure, is going to make a huge impact on this. This relates heavily to the use of hard vs soft light- hard light is going to accentuate anything, soft is going to gloss over things a bit more.
Mentally I just think of the angle of projection for the light to see where shadows would fall, but I'm a really spatially oriented person. |
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03/21/2011 09:36:03 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
I've seen some catalogs people have made online, but I can't for the life of me find one for you.
No need for a model though, just make your own. Set timer sit down. But remember that pose, as well as facial structure, is going to make a huge impact on this. This relates heavily to the use of hard vs soft light- hard light is going to accentuate anything, soft is going to gloss over things a bit more.
Mentally I just think of the angle of projection for the light to see where shadows would fall, but I'm a really spatially oriented person. |
Thanks for your comments. I do appreciate them.
As I am starting out and just having some fun, I know I have a lot to learn and plan to improve by each image I take. When thinking about a portrait I am sure there is a million and two things I need to be thinking about, and the images I took the other day, I found myself tweaking out and forgot most of the things that went through my head when I was planning it. Fortunately it was with a friend of mine who was helping me out.
I have focused mostly on getting the 5 variable understood, whilst remember composition etc. Posing isn't a strong point in my understanding yet, its something that I haven't quite yet worked on, as with everything else too LOL. At the top of my list is understanding the impact my kit has,i.e modifiers and focal length etc.
One of the things I have been trying to work out is direction of light based on the height and angle etc. I understand that a light high at the front with look differently hugely different based on how I post a model. So, should i really just think of light goes in a straight line until it hits something then that something will create a shadow, therefore, manages the shadows? Or again am I being too simplistic?
Matt
Matt
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03/21/2011 09:47:53 AM · #4 |
Matt, if you haven't already, check out the lessons over at Strobist.com
//strobist.blogspot.com/2007/06/lighting-102-unit-11-position-angle.html
You really have to play with the position until you find one that works for you and the subject. But do the exercise first to see how the different angles and heights look.
This is a composite that I made when I was starting out.
Strobist Lighting 102 Position (Angle) by alohadave, on Flickr
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03/21/2011 10:03:11 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by matt_d_uk:
One of the things I have been trying to work out is direction of light based on the height and angle etc. I understand that a light high at the front with look differently hugely different based on how I post a model. So, should i really just think of light goes in a straight line until it hits something then that something will create a shadow, therefore, manages the shadows? Or again am I being too simplistic?
Matt
Matt |
Nah, you're not being too simplistic. That's how I've viewed it for setting up a shot. It gets harder to do the more light sources you're dealing with. Light does just follow a linear path until it hits something else, so it's fine to view it like this. Going through the strobist photos and seeing how he instructs you to dissect photos to determine the lighting is really helpful in my opinion. As Zack Arias says, "light is light."
But remember that it isn't exactly "straight." The light from an umbrella is going to spray in a cone shape, for instance. The path of the photons is straight but it's not unidirectional, it's rather omnidirectional. Snoots/grids make things ACTUALLY linear/directional though.
Overall though, I'd say it's not hard to figure out where the light is going, but it IS hard to know beforehand what will LOOK GOOD. Knowing a shadow will fall in X place is not the same as knowing that aesthetically one should be there. Shadows/light define and sculpt a face, define the features. Think of it like a positive/negative image- which is going to look better and why? That's the true struggle, in my opinion- matching a lighting scheme with a structure, and I haven't found anything better than practice to improve that. |
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03/21/2011 10:13:04 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by matt_d_uk:
One of the things I have been trying to work out is direction of light based on the height and angle etc. I understand that a light high at the front with look differently hugely different based on how I post a model. So, should i really just think of light goes in a straight line until it hits something then that something will create a shadow, therefore, manages the shadows? Or again am I being too simplistic?
Matt
Matt |
Nah, you're not being too simplistic. That's how I've viewed it for setting up a shot. It gets harder to do the more light sources you're dealing with. Light does just follow a linear path until it hits something else, so it's fine to view it like this. Going through the strobist photos and seeing how he instructs you to dissect photos to determine the lighting is really helpful in my opinion. As Zack Arias says, "light is light."
But remember that it isn't exactly "straight." The light from an umbrella is going to spray in a cone shape, for instance. The path of the photons is straight but it's not unidirectional, it's rather omnidirectional. Snoots/grids make things ACTUALLY linear/directional though.
Overall though, I'd say it's not hard to figure out where the light is going, but it IS hard to know beforehand what will LOOK GOOD. Knowing a shadow will fall in X place is not the same as knowing that aesthetically one should be there. Shadows/light define and sculpt a face, define the features. Think of it like a positive/negative image- which is going to look better and why? That's the true struggle, in my opinion- matching a lighting scheme with a structure, and I haven't found anything better than practice to improve that. |
Again thank you for your comments.
What is driving this post is a shoot I did last night with a friend of mine. It was just for fun, and for me to use it as a practice experience based on the learning have have done on the 5 variables, mostly taken from Zack Arias.
I really enjoyed what I did last night and was happy with the results at this stage of my work. What i want to do now is workout how to improve them if I re-shoot, or what to learn for next time. I have been looking over the images today and working out what I like, don't like, etc, and what I could/should/need to consider next time.
The images have not come out how I expected (i guess any tog say they seldom do), but what I want is to why they look like they do, and then learn from them. I put some images for critique on another forum a while and the comments I got back were of no real help at all. I don't mind being told they are boring, flat etc, as long as some tells me where/how to improve them. Or the other unhelpful comments are, I like number 3, etc. I think it is hard to get some good people to critique on beginners work.
I will go and check out Strobist.com
Matt |
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03/21/2011 10:28:17 AM · #7 |
If you're on the up with Arias, if you don't already have the One Light fieldguide it's useful. I saw one of Arias' CreativeLive workshops, but didn't watch the OneLight DVD, and found the fieldguide worth my while. The image on his blog there shows all the pages in miniature.
One thing you might consider trying is finding a photo you like and recreating it without knowing the details (knowing how many lights were used is beneficial, though). I think going backwards like that works better than being told to put light X here/there.
Since you're a member here, you could always post them up here, too.
Also, what sort of lighting scheme are you using? How many and in a studio or what? |
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03/21/2011 10:45:36 AM · #8 |
I caught some of Zack's creativelive workshop which prompted me to buy his Onelight DVD, I also have the field guide which is brilliant. Basically I am trying to applying his teachings and then learning from my stuff.
I joined this site because I want to have a go at the challenges now I am up and running. Which forum thread is best for posting for critique from members?
I terms of lighting, I have a mobile studio, or in other words, any location I can find that I like, or my living room LOL. I have 2 hot shoe flashes, a 28" SB, 60" umbrella, and 5-1 reflector (freebie), with 2 off camera triggers RF-602's. Thought this would be a good starting point to learn Zack's theory etc.
Matt |
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03/21/2011 10:49:46 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by matt_d_uk:
Which forum thread is best for posting for critique from members? |
Use the Individual Photograph Discussion area if you want feedback on a particular photo or set of photos. |
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