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03/10/2011 09:21:32 AM · #1 |
Just this morning, a little after 4:15am EST, a "new" member made a post that looked sorta like spam. I was in the process of replying to it when my operating system rebooted without warning. By the time I got back to dpc (maybe 5 minutes later), the post had been removed, probably because it had been flagged as spam...
This was what I was trying to post
Originally posted by skip:
Thanks for the post, Chris. Around these parts, a first-time post by someone with something to sell is considered spam...
You might find better reception by seeking out active board members and contacting them privately to try your product/service and then letting them introduce you to the community as something they've found that might be interesting/useful. Some communities, especially established communities, tend to be fairly tight, looking for new members that want to become part of the fold, rather than people that look like they're only going to be around to make one commercial post and then be gone.
So, if you're into photography, especially if you want to develop your skills, or if you have skills to share, this can be a pretty cool place...hope you'll become a participant rather than a drive-by. |
(As it turns out, the poster had originally joined the site in 2004, but having not been active for about four and a half years, had forgotten his username and like many, created a new account. I imagine the admins will be able to help him straighten things out.)
The thing is, he actually had something that could be interesting and useful to many people here. The problem is that our community, like other tight-knit communities, is really distrustful of "outsiders" and is rather quick to boot them out - regardless of their good intentions. There's no telling how much stuff that might be actually useful/interesting gets snuffed out in the name of spam.
What would really be useful would be to have a forum section dedicated to "New Stuff" where the things that we currently call spam could have a home. Products and services could be checked out and reviewed. People that have something to offer would be able to make announcements. And, if it turns out to be something not relevant to the site, it could be treated as spam and removed.
Also, if something turns up in the wrong forum section, an admin could easily move it to the New Stuff section where it could live and die on its own accord.
AND, if D&L wanted to get entrepreneurial about it, they could set it up so that you would have to be a member to start a thread in that section. Any posts in other sections that should be in the New Stuff section would be simply hidden and the poster would get a notice that they would have to buy a membership to publish their thread. |
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03/10/2011 09:40:23 AM · #2 |
As a 'new' member since 2007 I tried to participate in a side challenge but could not because I have no portfolio and I may not post a link because I'm not SPAM trustworthy. Kind of takes the fun out of it.
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03/10/2011 10:00:14 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by quasicamera:
As a 'new' member since 2007 I tried to participate in a side challenge but could not because I have no portfolio and I may not post a link because I'm not SPAM trustworthy. Kind of takes the fun out of it. |
It's an unfortunate result of the effort to control spam that this happens to genuine users as well. Doesn't always stop the spammers though. I've seen some of them post nonsense "me too" type responses to threads just to get the post count up so they can create a link. At least that filters out the 'bots, I think. Unless the bots have gotten smarter.
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03/10/2011 10:01:29 AM · #4 |
I agree with Skip... I see a lot of knee-jerk responses where folks see a post they perceive as SPAM, from a new user, and they turn up the flames.
We are not in a position to turn off potential new contributors to the site. We continue to lose members, and soon we will not have the "critical mass" to maintain an active, healthy community. think twice about responding with an unwelcoming post. If you think it's SPAM, take a minute to investigate. If you're pretty sure it's SPAM, just hit "Report Post" and move on. Let the SC deal with it. |
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03/10/2011 11:42:57 AM · #5 |
| sign up, introduce yourself then sell the goods. i like to be romanced. I have no tolerance for spam. |
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03/10/2011 11:49:00 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
I agree with Skip... I see a lot of knee-jerk responses where folks see a post they perceive as SPAM, from a new user, and they turn up the flames.
We are not in a position to turn off potential new contributors to the site. We continue to lose members, and soon we will not have the "critical mass" to maintain an active, healthy community. think twice about responding with an unwelcoming post. If you think it's SPAM, take a minute to investigate. If you're pretty sure it's SPAM, just hit "Report Post" and move on. Let the SC deal with it. |
The trouble with this is, we've all been burned by clicking on malicious links (or pasting them in if they aren't parsed). I'm very careful about that now :-( I need to trust the source before I follow a link.
R. |
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03/10/2011 12:13:56 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The trouble with this is, we've all been burned by clicking on malicious links (or pasting them in if they aren't parsed). I'm very careful about that now :-( I need to trust the source before I follow a link.
R. |
Oh, I agree completely... it's just that I'm not comfortable with the flaming that goes on. Makes us look bad, especially in the cases where the message was meant in good faith. |
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03/10/2011 12:19:57 PM · #8 |
I like Spam.
It's very popular in Hawaii.
My favorite way to cook it is to grill it along with pineapple rings and make a Spamburger. |
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03/10/2011 12:20:22 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by kirbic:
I agree with Skip... I see a lot of knee-jerk responses where folks see a post they perceive as SPAM, from a new user, and they turn up the flames.
We are not in a position to turn off potential new contributors to the site. We continue to lose members, and soon we will not have the "critical mass" to maintain an active, healthy community. think twice about responding with an unwelcoming post. If you think it's SPAM, take a minute to investigate. If you're pretty sure it's SPAM, just hit "Report Post" and move on. Let the SC deal with it. |
The trouble with this is, we've all been burned by clicking on malicious links (or pasting them in if they aren't parsed). I'm very careful about that now :-( I need to trust the source before I follow a link.
R. |
i know exactly what you mean, bear, and it's fine line. that's why i would hope that requiring a poster to have a paid membership to start a thread might help weed out some of the maliciousness. it might even require a separate, special form for starting the thread that captures some verifiable data.
i just think it's a shame to throw someone or something out just because they haven't romanced mike enough or earned their stripes by performing enough community service.
(fwiw, the post in question related to a photo presentation service. you can check out their youtube video to see what it's all about.) |
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03/10/2011 12:37:45 PM · #10 |
| I think the New Stuff forum section is a good idea |
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03/10/2011 12:38:36 PM · #11 |
Skip and Fritz, I do share your position with regards to how it's a shame the way the site rallies against newcomers who seem to have something to sell or promote. It seems rather short-sighted to me. But I can see the other side of the equation as well; if we become known as a place that encourages, or even tolerates, self-promotion, we might soon be awash in it, and if you get too much of that stuff then the "real" members lose interest.
I think the idea of a separate forum for this sort of thing is an excellent one. But still, if the forum posts are visible on the front page, this can drive out meaningful content. It's not enough to have the forum be "ignorable", because by default it would still be visible. What I'm thinking of here, particularly, is what sort of impression does the site's front page give to a first-time visitor?
I even worry about that with regards to the social networking we all engage in here. Sometimes the front page is so un-photographic that I cringe; what would a hypothetical, serious-about-learning photographer make of us if his first impression of the site was of rant threads on religion and homosexuality bracketed by a lame-joke thread and a complaining-about-management thread? And I'm as guilty as anyone of participating in those sort of threads, pretty much :-(
Perhaps we, collectively, need to spend a little less time treating the place as a private club for our personal indulgence, and a little more time thinking about issues like "How can I help make DPC more attractive to the world's photographers, so it remains a vital and thriving website?" A couple years ago Doc and I tried to spearhead an effort focused on that issue, and it had a limited positive effect, but it kind of has petered out.
I guess I'm rambling :-(
R. |
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03/10/2011 12:56:36 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Skip and Fritz, I do share your position with regards to how it's a shame the way the site rallies against newcomers who seem to have something to sell or promote. It seems rather short-sighted to me. But I can see the other side of the equation as well; if we become known as a place that encourages, or even tolerates, self-promotion, we might soon be awash in it, and if you get too much of that stuff then the "real" members lose interest.
I think the idea of a separate forum for this sort of thing is an excellent one. But still, if the forum posts are visible on the front page, this can drive out meaningful content. It's not enough to have the forum be "ignorable", because by default it would still be visible. What I'm thinking of here, particularly, is what sort of impression does the site's front page give to a first-time visitor?
I even worry about that with regards to the social networking we all engage in here. Sometimes the front page is so un-photographic that I cringe; what would a hypothetical, serious-about-learning photographer make of us if his first impression of the site was of rant threads on religion and homosexuality bracketed by a lame-joke thread and a complaining-about-management thread? And I'm as guilty as anyone of participating in those sort of threads, pretty much :-(
Perhaps we, collectively, need to spend a little less time treating the place as a private club for our personal indulgence, and a little more time thinking about issues like "How can I help make DPC more attractive to the world's photographers, so it remains a vital and thriving website?" A couple years ago Doc and I tried to spearhead an effort focused on that issue, and it had a limited positive effect, but it kind of has petered out.
I guess I'm rambling :-(
R. |
I've mentioned it before, but why does this site not have a presence on Facebook or Twitter. It seems like such a simple thing to do to generate new members. I for one would love to be able to "like" DPC on my Facebook page. Think of how much more exposure our photos could get from something like this. I try to promote it as much as possible on my own facebook page, but there is only so many people that reaches.
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03/10/2011 12:59:21 PM · #13 |
If you think a post is SPAM, hit the "Report This Post As Spam" link -- that's why it's there.
• Do not "investigate."
• Do not reply to the user.
• Do not post your suspicions in the thread.
The general rule for dealing with any violations around here is for you to report your concerns, and then stay out of it completely. Vigilance is good, but vigilantism is bad ...
Originally posted by sjhuls:
I've mentioned it before, but why does this site not have a presence on Facebook or Twitter. It seems like such a simple thing to do to generate new members. I for one would love to be able to "like" DPC on my Facebook page. Think of how much more exposure our photos could get from something like this. I try to promote it as much as possible on my own facebook page, but there is only so many people that reaches. |
Why don't you submit a DPC Administrative Ticket so your suggestion goes straight to  Langdon, since he's the one who would have to deal with it anyway.
Message edited by author 2011-03-10 13:01:27. |
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03/10/2011 01:26:04 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
If you think a post is SPAM, hit the "Report This Post As Spam" link -- that's why it's there.
• Do not "investigate."
• Do not reply to the user.
• Do not post your suspicions in the thread.
The general rule for dealing with any violations around here is for you to report your concerns, and then stay out of it completely. Vigilance is good, but vigilantism is bad ...
Originally posted by sjhuls:
I've mentioned it before, but why does this site not have a presence on Facebook or Twitter. It seems like such a simple thing to do to generate new members. I for one would love to be able to "like" DPC on my Facebook page. Think of how much more exposure our photos could get from something like this. I try to promote it as much as possible on my own facebook page, but there is only so many people that reaches. |
Why don't you submit a DPC Administrative Ticket so your suggestion goes straight to Langdon, since he's the one who would have to deal with it anyway. |
Good idea maybe I will start a thread and get a few of us together to send a message at the same time. Hopefully if enough of us express interest in this we can get it started.
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03/10/2011 01:42:16 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Why don't you submit a DPC Administrative Ticket so your suggestion goes straight to Langdon, since he's the one who would have to deal with it anyway. |
Because anyone who follows this site understands that Langdon has very little interest or interaction with the site anymore. It's generally on autopilot and administration tickets takes weeks-months to get answered if they ever do. Lets be honest the members of this community care more about the site then the owner/operator does now. We have beat our heads on the wall long enough and many have decided the fight isn't worth fighting anymore.
Matt |
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03/10/2011 01:45:54 PM · #16 |
| FYI - there is (at least an unofficial) DPChallenge facebook page. |
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03/10/2011 02:48:24 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Why don't you submit a DPC Administrative Ticket so your suggestion goes straight to Langdon, since he's the one who would have to deal with it anyway. |
Because anyone who follows this site understands that Langdon has very little interest or interaction with the site anymore. It's generally on autopilot and administration tickets takes weeks-months to get answered if they ever do. Lets be honest the members of this community care more about the site then the owner/operator does now. We have beat our heads on the wall long enough and many have decided the fight isn't worth fighting anymore.
Matt |
Well I guess my point is that none of us on the Site Council can do anything more than you yourself can -- we don't have access to the code, the servers, or much of anything else; bitching about posting it in the forums isn't going to generate any more action than sending in a ticket, only bitter, sarcastic replies ... ;-) |
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03/10/2011 02:50:10 PM · #18 |
Hmmm, now I wonder who in the world could have started that.
(Yes, of course I signed up.) |
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03/10/2011 02:55:19 PM · #19 |
and people wonder why people leave this site or don't join in the first place...
( s i g h ) |
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03/10/2011 03:03:31 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
posting it in the forums isn't going to generate any more action than sending in a ticket, only bitter, sarcastic replies ... ;-) |
Sounds good enough to me lol. I saw the post the guy did and I can't say I cared. If its photography related then it is not random internet spam and should be dealt with as it is. It was a valid and legitimate and verifiable product and it should stand a much better chance of staying than something we can not research. |
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03/10/2011 07:06:16 PM · #21 |
What I've found over the years is that every site with a community has its own dynamioc. If you don't investigate it a little, lurk if you will, then you're bound to ruffle someone's feathers. You have to learn to be somewhat thick-skinned if you're going to post to a forum cold. I don't think this site is any more intolerant than any other when it comes to NOOBs posting off the wall stuff.
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03/10/2011 07:43:29 PM · #22 |
| does anyone know the OP, can we trust this guy? |
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03/10/2011 07:46:03 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
I like Spam.
It's very popular in Hawaii.
My favorite way to cook it is to grill it along with pineapple rings and make a Spamburger. |
For some reason that just sounds fabulous right now. deep fried coated spam as well. We used to have that at school , slabs of it on a late. |
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03/10/2011 08:13:59 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
does anyone know the OP, can we trust this guy? |
i don't *know* him, but he's been a member since 2004  jinjer, and his company and work credentials look legit. as i mentioned previously, he hadn't been active for a while and forgot his original user id...
check out the youtube video... |
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03/10/2011 08:47:30 PM · #25 |
I have been in contact with him. As I told him:
It's against the site rules to open a second account.
Opening a new account and posting something that looks and smells like spam is going to get removed and the account deleted. If we don't act on those quickly, we'll all be eating SPAM for breakfast.
We permit some self promoting posts from members, as long as their participation is weighted towards real participation.
Message edited by author 2011-03-10 20:47:58. |
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