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03/06/2011 10:52:47 AM · #1 |
not resonate with the voters?
Given the gravitas of subject matter in the photo I felt that this needs a revisit.
Voter fatigue played a heavy hand I am sure BUT what about reasons number 4 and number 5? Going by the voters stats it seems that maybe only 13% truly understood the photo (23/172 votes) It has been weighing heavily on my mind that I feel I should bring the spotlight back for a revisit.
And no, I did not have really high hopes but did think it would score in the 5.6- to 5.7 range - which is not where it ended up.
Reasons 4 & 5:
4. Voters did not know what the shadow Auschwitz meant. Sadly not everyone knows world history. A google search I did revealed two polls that showed 63% of the population of a U.S. city could not recognize that Auschwitz was a concentration camp and in 2004 nearly half of Britons in a poll said they never heard of Auschwitz
5. Voters did not catch the detail of the shadow thus the full impact/meaning of the title "Her Stolen Steps" was totally lost on them. Voters needed greater clarification in title such as "Holocaust" to make the impact of the image understood.
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03/06/2011 11:39:12 AM · #2 |
I did not vote but in my opinion:
DPC voters vote on the quality of the photo and if it meets the challenge. "Meaning" or other "personal" feelings the photo brings to the photographer are not considered. My 2 cents anyway....
Originally posted by CNovack:
not resonate with the voters?
Given the gravitas of subject matter in the photo I felt that this needs a revisit.
Voter fatigue played a heavy hand I am sure BUT what about reasons number 4 and number 5? Going by the voters stats it seems that maybe only 13% truly understood the photo (23/172 votes) It has been weighing heavily on my mind that I feel I should bring the spotlight back for a revisit.
And no, I did not have really high hopes but did think it would score in the 5.6- to 5.7 range - which is not where it ended up.
Reasons 4 & 5:
4. Voters did not know what the shadow Auschwitz meant. Sadly not everyone knows world history. A google search I did revealed two polls that showed 63% of the population of a U.S. city could not recognize that Auschwitz was a concentration camp and in 2004 nearly half of Britons in a poll said they never heard of Auschwitz
5. Voters did not catch the detail of the shadow thus the full impact/meaning of the title "Her Stolen Steps" was totally lost on them. Voters needed greater clarification in title such as "Holocaust" to make the impact of the image understood. |
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03/06/2011 11:46:12 AM · #3 |
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03/06/2011 12:05:08 PM · #4 |
voter fatigue. Definitely. After looking at 191 pictures of shoes, I didn't notice the Star of David or the Auschwitz. I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't spend enough time looking at it, because there were just so many pictures of shoes.
It was a lesson for me. I will not vote so quickly in the future. I gave it a 6. I would have bumped it up a point for making a statement. |
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03/06/2011 12:16:32 PM · #5 |
As above,except I gave 5.
I will also take more time in future. |
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03/06/2011 12:21:39 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by CNovack:
4. Voters did not know what the shadow Auschwitz meant. |
One technical issue I have, which may subliminally undermine your meaning, is that the shadow as depicted seems to be aligned as if the person was walking out through the gate. I think if the shadow was seen from the persepctive of someone entering the camp, the letters would arc in the other direction, and be seen wrong-reading (mirror-imaged) on the ground.* However, making and photographing the sign as you did was a great idea and well-executed otherwise.
Also, I've never had much success with gritty, grainy black-and-white images.
Overall, a fine attempt and an excellent idea; I agree it deserved a better finish.
*You could try selecting the area with the letters and doing a horizontal flip to see. |
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03/06/2011 12:41:47 PM · #7 |
Certainly it finished too low. I didn't vote on the challenge, but here's my guess.
I think the grain and the "very black" areas of the shoes probably hurt this most. I think the theme was an excellent idea, but I'm not sure you carried it here. I think had you simulated what you saw in the memorial, i.e., piled up the shoes, you would have been top 10. It may also been better to show the shadow in a more readable orientation (which would fit with Paul's suggestion about entering Auschwitz.
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03/06/2011 01:05:34 PM · #8 |
To me this looked oversharpened or overcontrasty. I didn't view it for any length of time and essentially skipped past it. It did not hold my attention long enough to even notice the shadow. If I had seen it I would have understood the photo more, but I don't necessarily think I would have voted any higher. I gave it a 5 which is my benchmark for "average" - i.e. composition, focus etc are there but does nothing to grab my attention.
Message edited by author 2011-03-06 13:05:59. |
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03/06/2011 01:06:40 PM · #9 |
To score well a photograph must work on more than one level, and above all must be appealing to the eye.
Imagine that you had no notion of history; that the Star of David was just another bobble, and look at the photograph, what do you see? I see a composition who's primary element is tan bark, and the subject takes up less than twenty percent of the field; and both the subject and the field share the same tones and matte textures. Other than the concept, where is the pop in this image that would warrant a top score?
There is one other category of voters that you did not list along with those who do not know Auschwitz, are those who do now Auschwitz and are offended by it's memory being used. It isn't fair, but ask any Christian who uses an image of a cross or overt religious imagery if there are those who will vote down certain subjects no matter how well presented.
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03/06/2011 01:07:38 PM · #10 |
I looked at this image for you before the challenge, and even I didn't see the Auschwitz.
All I saw were some letters that I couldn't read. It never occurred to me to try and look at it upside down and read from the right to the left.
Ultimately, I think thats why it hurt your score. People just didn't see it |
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03/06/2011 03:32:51 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Fiora:
I looked at this image for you before the challenge, and even I didn't see the Auschwitz.
All I saw were some letters that I couldn't read. It never occurred to me to try and look at it upside down and read from the right to the left.
Ultimately, I think thats why it hurt your score. People just didn't see it |
+1 |
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03/06/2011 03:41:57 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Fiora:
I looked at this image for you before the challenge, and even I didn't see the Auschwitz.
All I saw were some letters that I couldn't read. It never occurred to me to try and look at it upside down and read from the right to the left.
Ultimately, I think thats why it hurt your score. People just didn't see it |
looking at it again, it took me a second to even figure out what it said. The first time i don't even think i noticed the letters. In fact had you not even made this post i probably would have never noticed it.
also, while there is a powerful meaning behind this image, not everyone here is emotionally tied to that event in history. I have no ties to the holocaust, while i do know and respect the history, no real emotion resonates with me.
i applaud you for trying to add that aspect to your picture, but i think it was just missed by a lot of people for a number of reason. |
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03/06/2011 04:48:27 PM · #13 |
| the contrast almost makes it painful for the eyes to look at, it does not invite the viewer to linger and try to see more |
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03/06/2011 05:15:25 PM · #14 |
Considering the mere fact that so many people do not know about Auschwitz, I seriously doubt that #7 is an issue of consideration. I gave this image a 6, which for me is a rather good score. I did find the image a tad harsh and had difficulty associating the title with the subject.
Ray |
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03/06/2011 05:18:13 PM · #15 |
I didn't vote, but at the same time, if I had, I wouldn't have added anything for any emotional resonance. I know my history, and I know what Auschwitz was but truthfully I don't much care. History is something to learn from for certain, but I am not jewish have no jewish connections and believe the world is beginning to move on. I have no emotional attachment outside of "It's too bad that happened", and even then it's tenuous at best.
I think that this is true for more people than not these days as well. A photo like that just makes me shrug. |
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03/06/2011 05:21:34 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
To score well a photograph must work on more than one level, and above all must be appealing to the eye.
Imagine that you had no notion of history; that the Star of David was just another bobble, and look at the photograph, what do you see? I see a composition who's primary element is tan bark, and the subject takes up less than twenty percent of the field; and both the subject and the field share the same tones and matte textures. Other than the concept, where is the pop in this image that would warrant a top score? |
Exactly this. |
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03/06/2011 08:31:45 PM · #17 |
wow... I'm a little floored by the people who are so cavalier about the holocaust. I actually had the same type of photo idea. When I first saw the lonely shoes in b&w, I wanted to take a trip up to DC to the holocaust museum. The whole museum was extremely moving. However, what made the most impact on me was the room of shoes. Yet, it was only a small token of the total number of shoes found in the camps at the end of the war.
Here is one of the camps:
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03/06/2011 08:57:47 PM · #18 |
wow... I'm a little floored by the people who are so cavalier about the holocaust.
Is it really any worse than trying to use it in an online photo contest?
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03/06/2011 09:04:06 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I didn't vote, but at the same time, if I had, I wouldn't have added anything for any emotional resonance. I know my history, and I know what Auschwitz was but truthfully I don't much care. History is something to learn from for certain, but I am not jewish have no jewish connections and believe the world is beginning to move on. I have no emotional attachment outside of "It's too bad that happened", and even then it's tenuous at best.
I think that this is true for more people than not these days as well. A photo like that just makes me shrug. |
Just saying...
People killed in the Holocaust included Jehovah's Witness, Gypsies, German citizens in the Underground Army, priests, Nonconformists, homosexuals, Muslims, Communists, Socialists, freemasons, prisoners of war, Slavs, asians, french, africans, criminals, disabled, mulattos, couples of interracial marriage, Poles, and a few more groups.
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03/06/2011 09:07:43 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by alohadave:
wow... I'm a little floored by the people who are so cavalier about the holocaust.
Is it really any worse than trying to use it in an online photo contest? |
I thought about that, as well, when I was considering the shoes in the holocaust museum. My reason was because they made such an incredible impact on me, I wanted to show people who perhaps hadn't had a chance to see it.
It's an interesting question, but when you read the photographer's comments on the picture in question, it sounds like it was also the case  cnovack being deeply moved by something, and wanting to move other people as well. When history is forgotten, it tends to be repeated. It is repeated. Genocide is still a problem. There's nothing wrong with trying to make people remember and care.
Message edited by author 2011-03-06 21:08:41. |
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03/06/2011 09:17:01 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I didn't vote, but at the same time, if I had, I wouldn't have added anything for any emotional resonance. I know my history, and I know what Auschwitz was but truthfully I don't much care. History is something to learn from for certain, but I am not jewish have no jewish connections and believe the world is beginning to move on. I have no emotional attachment outside of "It's too bad that happened", and even then it's tenuous at best.
I think that this is true for more people than not these days as well. A photo like that just makes me shrug. |
Just saying...
People killed in the Holocaust included Jehovah's Witness, Gypsies, German citizens in the Underground Army, priests, Nonconformists, homosexuals, Muslims, Communists, Socialists, freemasons, prisoners of war, Slavs, asians, french, africans, criminals, disabled, mulattos, couples of interracial marriage, Poles, and a few more groups. |
Thanks for bringing that out, the fact that it wasn't just jews. I'm not siding with anyone, but if you are going to argue a point atleast know your facts. |
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03/06/2011 09:25:14 PM · #22 |
| This was one challenge where I found commenting really prevented the voter fatigue. It forced me to look at photos a little bit longer and really understand them. I thought this was really well done and I gave it a 7. |
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03/06/2011 09:28:42 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by CNovack:
4. Voters did not know what the shadow Auschwitz meant. |
One technical issue I have, which may subliminally undermine your meaning, is that the shadow as depicted seems to be aligned as if the person was walking out through the gate. I think if the shadow was seen from the persepctive of someone entering the camp, the letters would arc in the other direction, and be seen wrong-reading (mirror-imaged) on the ground.* However, making and photographing the sign as you did was a great idea and well-executed otherwise.
Also, I've never had much success with gritty, grainy black-and-white images.
Overall, a fine attempt and an excellent idea; I agree it deserved a better finish.
*You could try selecting the area with the letters and doing a horizontal flip to see. |
On the technical - yes, beginning to see how that angle played into it. I took a long look on a laptop computer rather than my PC. Brighter screens shows more 'grit' more 'grain'. The image is certainly not a clean backdrop but it is not supposed to be given the nature of what happened. HOWEVER - I do see what  RayEthier, smardaz, and lawrysimm. The difference in monitor calibration (laptop) and also the angle (as I moved the screen a few degrees back and forward) can make a world of difference.
Paul and Neil  nshapiro (hopefully I did not leave anyone else out) the idea to invert the words such that it would be akin to what a person entering the gates is a valid point. It would have been more readable. And I did think upon that when creating the 'gate' but then the shadow would read right but not the actual gate casting the shadow. Hmmm, if the gate was behind her with the sun shining and casting the shadow in front of the shoes it would be correct....well that could have worked showing that I shot myself in the foot from that angle.
Message edited by author 2011-03-06 23:11:18. |
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03/06/2011 09:32:54 PM · #24 |
| actually, the horizontal flip would have been good, because it would have emphasized the letters more. The eye has a tendency to start at the left and move to the right. It moved quickly to the shoes and the shadow was missed in many cases. If the shadow was on the right, the eye would have noticed it a bit more. |
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03/06/2011 10:26:10 PM · #25 |
Here is a rough schematic of how I think you could have arranged the shadow of the gate for a more realistic/accurate effect:
I think the composition from the perspective of entering the gate is important; it yields many ironical contrasts (e.g. the opposite of the Yellow Brick Road, the light at the end of the tunnel, etc.).
The idea is really good. I often look at challenge entries -- posted for a first look under a tight deadline -- as the same "rough" or "first draft" I'd be showing a design client for feedback before creating a final version. I encourage you to consider re-doing this image under less constrained conditions. |
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