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01/28/2011 05:56:23 PM · #1 |
I've been contracted to shoot an opera ball with 300 people and several performances. I feel the time has come for me to get an external flash.
Normally I shun the flash, but in this case I don't think that my 50mm f1.8 is going to do the trick. Plus, I can't do the whole night with a fixed lens.
Sooo - all ye experts - what kind of flash (for little money) should I get? Any input, experience, thoughts, comments? And should I get one of those diffuser things, too?
Thanks! |
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01/28/2011 06:02:43 PM · #2 |
I'll let the real experts advise you on a proper flash (I have the 430exii and I love it), but I have advice on a diffuser if want to save money.
DIY Homemade flash mini-bouncer from makezine.com.
I made one of these on thick card stock and it worked beautifully. The best part is, it's so cheap they are practically free.
Most people won't notice it's not a store bought diffuser, and if they do they'll probably think you're pretty clever! |
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01/28/2011 06:20:45 PM · #3 |
Do you know what the venue is like? Is the ceiling very high? Is it white? If the ceiling is not too high (more than about 15 feet) and is white, you will get great results bouncing a flash off the ceiling. It does require more power, so recycle times are somewhat longer, and of course less flashes per set of batteries.
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01/28/2011 06:22:14 PM · #4 |
I can't speak to the Canon line of speed lights, but seems like the 430 or the 580 model would be a good bet, and you can use them in ttl mode. I suspect they may come with a StoFen type diffuser, which is not bad, but still a fairly small light source. I have and use the Rogue Flashbender in both large and small sizes. I like it better than others I have used mainly because it is versatile. It can form into a snoot, works well as a flag if I am using the speedlight as a rim light, etc. It is easy to pack/carry/and attach.
I'd recommend the large one, as I use it more than the small one. I got a small one mainly to use as a flag or snoot on my smaller speed lights when using them as hair, rim lights, etc.
Is your coverage of the event primarily the performances, or are you doing walk-around shots of guests, or a photo-booth sort of thing for guests? In other words, will you be using your speed-light on-camera for guests, but your fast lens and available light for the performances? If your light will be on a light-stand, remotely triggered, then while the Rogue unit could work okay for that, an inexpensive umbrella might be worth it. Of course, you need the mounts, a trigger, etc.
Consider renting a speed light if that is an option, too, I suppose. Not sure how much you have used them before, but practicing ahead of time with it will be helpful, and if you can get in to scout the venue and do some test shots (take a friend to model). For something where I will be moving around a lot, taking shots of people in a gathering, I'd likely start out with a ttl mode. (I haven't done much "event" coverage with my speed lights, though.) |
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01/28/2011 06:24:12 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Do you know what the venue is like? Is the ceiling very high? Is it white? If the ceiling is not too high (more than about 15 feet) and is white, you will get great results bouncing a flash off the ceiling. It does require more power, so recycle times are somewhat longer, and of course less flashes per set of batteries. |
Ditto on checking out the ceiling option as part of scouting. Double Ditto on the batteries. Carry two or three sets of batteries, minimum (I use lithium, though rechargeables will work--but carry more sets of those, as in my experience they tend to run down a lot faster) |
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01/28/2011 06:37:16 PM · #6 |
Its more expensive, of course, but Canon's Speedlite 580EX II flash is a good choice if you can afford it.
The 580 is highly flexible and you can literally point in any direction you want. If you are using Canon lenses the 580 automatically adjusts its beam for the focal length of lens you are using. That is pretty cool. I believe it was designed specifically for use with Canon's 24-105mm f/4L lens but handles others, even my 70-200mm as long as subjects are not to far away. Also, if you ever get additional flashes they will slave off the 580 wireless without doing squat!
The 430 probably has many of the features of the 580 but it is not as powerful a flash and it can only be a slave, never a master!
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01/28/2011 07:19:32 PM · #7 |
Thanks for all the advice. I didn't even consider battery life that is compromised by flash. I'll look into getting at least one other battery.
The venue is a ballroom at the Ritz Carlton in Phoenix. Ceilings will be high, and it will be fairly dark - mood lighting. Plus I'll be photographing stage performances where the flash may or may not be handy, depending on what kind of access I have to the stage.
More input is welcome! |
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01/28/2011 07:33:11 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by keenon:
Thanks for all the advice. I didn't even consider battery life that is compromised by flash. I'll look into getting at least one other battery.
The venue is a ballroom at the Ritz Carlton in Phoenix. Ceilings will be high, and it will be fairly dark - mood lighting. Plus I'll be photographing stage performances where the flash may or may not be handy, depending on what kind of access I have to the stage.
More input is welcome! |
With that in mind then a flash bounce attachment of some sort would be ideal for most things second only to direct flashing the stage using a soft box to soften the shadows a little bit. I haven't kept up with the latest offerings but since your not buying for this only for this event the upper end of Canon is always a nice option with weather sealing among other things, dont believe that is a concern. On a budget the Sigma EF-530 or new 610 in the Super trim which can usually be had for around 220 bucks or less is my vote. Really depends on money.
I love my EF-530 DG Super, I bought it because Nikons best offering at the time was a feature match and possibly less powerful (Its hard to truly compare between manufacturers) SB800, I did get left out on nikon specific features like wireless communication. The SB900 came out and blew the Sigma away. I haven't ever heard anyone complain about their Canon flash but its the money that makes it a hard decision.
I shot in overcast conditions in july doing an outside venue which is brighter then you are working with but at 1/8th power I was able to strobe the stage at 3 FPS and only had to let up when my buffer was full. Your gonna end up being held back by recycle times no matter what brand and model you choose in the stage situation due to the power consumption. NiMHH rechargables offer a faster recycle time then alkalines at the cost of shots per battery, Lithium might be a good compromise.
Check out //www.lumiquest.com/products.htm as far as light modification goes. You dont need a bouncer capable of letting partial light to the ceiling just one that bounces forward. This will give you the best light your gonna get in these situations.
Message edited by author 2011-01-28 19:34:10.
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01/28/2011 08:24:20 PM · #9 |
| I got one of the small lumiquest softboxes. For me, it was an utter waste of money: while it does fold up easily, it was a PITA to install, increased the effective size of the flash in a negligible way, and ate at least a stop or more of light output. This was the little softbox thing, not a lumiquest bounce modifier--I have heard good things about those, but have never used one myself. But the little lumiquest softbox is primarily an expletive generator. I much much much prefer the Rogue, which serves as a bounce, but also can do other things. |
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01/28/2011 08:26:23 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by keenon:
Thanks for all the advice. I didn't even consider battery life that is compromised by flash. I'll look into getting at least one other battery.
The venue is a ballroom at the Ritz Carlton in Phoenix. Ceilings will be high, and it will be fairly dark - mood lighting. Plus I'll be photographing stage performances where the flash may or may not be handy, depending on what kind of access I have to the stage.
More input is welcome! |
It may well be that use of flash for the stage performance will not be allowed. That might be the fast prime lens part of your shoot. |
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01/28/2011 08:28:48 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
I got one of the small lumiquest softboxes. For me, it was an utter waste of money: while it does fold up easily, it was a PITA to install, increased the effective size of the flash in a negligible way, and ate at least a stop or more of light output. This was the little softbox thing, not a lumiquest bounce modifier--I have heard good things about those, but have never used one myself. But the little lumiquest softbox is primarily an expletive generator. I much much much prefer the Rogue, which serves as a bounce, but also can do other things. |
I agree on the soft box, while it does have results, its little more then softer edges on the shadows. Eats up between 1/4 and a full stop of light. Its a pain to install or keep right. Cant say I would ever look for it to increase the effective area however.
I never got the bounce modifier been meaning too and I think I am going to for my trip home. But I love ceiling bounces, 10 times better photos than I have ever taken using bounce flash indoors. Outdoors and high ceilings the bounce modifier is a must. Plenty of companys make em, you can even cheap out to a DIY but I don't recommend it, I did one it worked but not as effectively as a premade.
EDIT - The rogue looks like a nice option btw, a little much for simple situations but it will serve you for many more purposes than a fixed one.
Message edited by author 2011-01-28 20:29:54.
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01/28/2011 08:39:09 PM · #12 |
I don't think flash for the stage performance is a good idea if you're doing that at the same time people are being entertained. It would ruin the experience. Also, someone may be videoing it and this would create bursts of light through the performance.
Definitely a case for fast glass and higher ISO I'm thinking. |
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01/28/2011 08:51:44 PM · #13 |
| look at the yongnuo yn560 its like 60 bucks on amazon and its pretty awesome |
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01/29/2011 02:30:25 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by keenon:
Thanks for all the advice. I didn't even consider battery life that is compromised by flash. I'll look into getting at least one other battery. |
For flash batteries I recommend two sets(or more for big projects) of re-chargeables with a 15-minute recharging unit always on hand for quick recharges. Throw away batteries are not only expensive but a major pain when they get mixed up with dead or low batteries.
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01/29/2011 03:29:35 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Artifacts:
Originally posted by keenon:
Thanks for all the advice. I didn't even consider battery life that is compromised by flash. I'll look into getting at least one other battery. |
For flash batteries I recommend two sets(or more for big projects) of re-chargeables with a 15-minute recharging unit always on hand for quick recharges. Throw away batteries are not only expensive but a major pain when they get mixed up with dead or low batteries. |
I agree--at least two sets.
Actually, I had poor luck with rechargeables lasting very long at all on a shoot (I have not tried the eneloops yet, which I hear are pretty good). So I use lithiums out of the packaging (to tell they are the fresh ones). When I notice the recycle time on the flash slowing down too much for my needs at the shoot, I swap em out for fresh, drop the partially used ones into a pocket on my bag, or in a ziploc. These then get used for remote controls at home, calculators, etc. where they last a lot longer. Normally I use rechargeables in those, but when I have leftover lithiums from a shoot, they get put to good use. And then I put all dead batteries in a container--when it gets full, I recycle them. (they have recycle buckets for batteries at work). |
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01/29/2011 03:45:33 AM · #16 |
If you don't already have a canon flash that would be the first to buy. It's always good to have a flash that can be used in ettl. Get yourself the 580exII and this will open a whole new world of photography - bounce flash, fill flash, etc. It really is worth the money for at last one flash that matches your camera.
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01/29/2011 09:06:29 AM · #17 |
no one has mentioned the Gary fong tupperware. it might be useful for you.
Gary Fong |
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01/29/2011 01:18:29 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
... When I notice the recycle time on the flash slowing down too much for my needs at the shoot, I swap em out for fresh, drop the partially used ones into a pocket on my bag, or in a ziploc. ... |
Funny battery story from last weekend...
I took pictures of a fashion show during a wedding vendor show last weekend. They had lighted runways and the whole nine yards. It definitely isn't my type of photography but I did it anyway.
At the last second I decided to slip a fresh set of re-chargeables into the ol' 580EX II even though there was a pretty good charge still left on the batteries it had. I put the ones I took out into my pocket in case I needed them.
Of course, being distracted by the great bodies... Uhhh, I mean while totally absorbed in intense, efficient and sterling professionalism ... I neglected to take note that I also had change in my pocket too.
While down on one knee my leg suddenly got REALLY hot. At first I thought it was because... welll... modesty prevents me from saying. But then I realized the batteries were shorting across my change and burning my leg!
All I can say about that is those little suckers get really hot, really fast!
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01/29/2011 01:49:39 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Artifacts:
All I can say about that is those little suckers get really hot, really fast! |
LOL Steve! Gives new meaning to the term "hot pants"! |
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01/30/2011 02:40:47 AM · #20 |
| I'm going through this as well. I have little budget (see: 0) so I am trying to do all my homework, and get the most bang-for-my-buck. While the canon 580ex looks sweet, no way can I afford it as my first flash. Also I want to be able to use it off-camera easily and Canons lack of PC ports seems annoying. I'm sort of contending between the LumoPro LP160, or one of the Sigma EF DG super models. anyone have any opinions? things to look out for? |
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01/30/2011 04:02:57 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by activeradioactive:
I'm going through this as well. I have little budget (see: 0) so I am trying to do all my homework, and get the most bang-for-my-buck. While the canon 580ex looks sweet, no way can I afford it as my first flash. Also I want to be able to use it off-camera easily and Canons lack of PC ports seems annoying. I'm sort of contending between the LumoPro LP160, or one of the Sigma EF DG super models. anyone have any opinions? things to look out for? |
This is coming from the nikon side. I have only had two problems with the EF-530 DG Super. If the flash gets pushed just a little too far into the front of the shoe, it wont communicate. Im talking half a mm, it can be a life or death for a pro, unnacceptable but no bother to me just have to check it before tightening it all the way. After awhile I also had to adjust the plate on the battery door, no complaint about it things like this need adjustment sometimes. The shoe alignment might not be any problem on the Canon version.
I would have liked the shoe that nikon flashes use rather then the plastic the sigma uses. I have had myne for two years and I lay my camera on its side with pressure on the flash, Yet to break it but it will eventually. The rest of the build quality is normal, but still no where near that of the SB900 or your end of the stick the 580EX. The flash comes with a case and a stand for use off camera, either on a cord or wireless and can be screwed into a tripod.
There is the new 610 model and I am not sure if it communicates with the 530 but depending I am picking up another 530. Bank for the buck I say the sigma, but if you have the money the Canon is the smarter buy. No PC sync port and since I have hotshoe cables not a big deal. Depending on how fast your camera shoots you can strobe between 1/4 and 1/8 but if you get past 6fps forget about it.
I just looked at the lumo pro, it seems the only advantage to it is the sync capabilities. Actual Retail is about the same and the interface on the back looks horrible. I woulnd't buy it just because of the interface. The SIGMA has a greater range of manual power control, might not matter to you it does to me. The Sigma also has the ability to strobe as a modeling light to check shadows and what not. I dont see that on this one.
Message edited by author 2011-01-30 04:16:07.
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01/30/2011 06:04:25 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by LVicari:
no one has mentioned the Gary fong tupperware. it might be useful for you.
Gary Fong |
The powersnoot is cool does a good job
Message edited by author 2011-01-30 06:05:42. |
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01/30/2011 07:57:56 AM · #23 |
| I would suggest the 580 EX II or the 580 EX (used) over the 430 EX I or II for the following reason. The 580 accepts an external battery pack - Canon CPE4 or 3rd party (personally I have had a great experience with the Yongnuo SF-18). The battery pack does 2 main things, it gives you much more time between battery changes and usually more importantly cuts the recycle time - so much so that at anything less than full power on the flash, there is no recycle time, the light is always on. |
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02/02/2011 12:43:19 PM · #24 |
As far as modifiers go, you might want to check out the LumiQuest product. In this case I would say that the quik bounce or promax system is the best option. With either of these, your getting the flash further off camera, and enlarging it to soften shadows. These are Directional products which is good for shooting in large rooms. Avoid anything that distributes the light every direction in a large room or you'll only suffer power loss. They also allow you to bounce most of the light off the ceiling (if it's low enough) while retaining enough light forwards to fill in the eyes and other areas that become dark when the flash is bounced off ceiling.
Just remember that with any modifiers that aren't HUGE, you'll need to be in fairly close to your subject for any light softening.
BTW... LumiQuest has a foldable option to gary fong's power snoot, and it actually telescopes so that you can make it smaller or larger with ease. It's called the Snoot XTR.
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02/02/2011 03:39:43 PM · #25 |
Chromeydome, we’re sorry for your disappointment with the LumiQuest SoftBox. It’s hard to address your issues very precisely, since you could be referring to any of four different models. However, the way light works still applies in all cases.
Whether you are bouncing or diffusing the light, the larger light source it produces, the softer the shadows. If the devices are roughly the same size, they will produce roughly the same (softer) shadows. This is the case whether it is a LumiQuest, Rogue, or for that matter, a paper plate. Beyond the size/softness issues, it is a matter of personal preference which other features you desire. Our light modifiers direct the light in very predictable directions; we obviously prefer this condition for complete creative control and predictability rather than the Rogue “Infinitely Variable” approach, especially in unplanned or on-the-fly situations.
Regardless, as it says on the package, we stand behind all of our products, and if you write me, Quest@LumiQuest.com, we’ll figure out a way to “make it right.”
Quest
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