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11/19/2010 09:59:21 AM · #1
//www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/11/coica-web-censorship-bill/

maybe if hollywood and the music industry looked at why these sites exist and worked to correct their shortfalls, rather they relying on the government to be a brute police force.

This bill is bad, really bad. You cant just let the government shut down websites without due process, you have to let the courts do their job.

Message edited by author 2010-11-19 09:59:48.
11/19/2010 10:15:27 AM · #2
The DMCA is a noble idea that is poorly implemented. I belong to a forum for office equipment technicians and a former forum member had a bone to pick with the people who were the site admins. He went off and started his own similar site and at one point decided to extract some satisfaction from knocking our site offline. He filed a DMCA takedown notice, claiming that our site had infringing material lifted from his site. It was not true, but the ISP shut down our forum until the admin could call them and straighten it out when he got off work. I was also on the second guy's forum though less active there, but after that immature stunt I told him to terminate my account there.

This bill is even worse. I'm not advocating media piracy, but granting such power is not the answer.

The government does not need to be the enforcement division for the entertainment industry. The industry needs to find business models that work with the new technology.

BTW, the RIAA also wants to put used CD, movie and game stores out of business by making it illegal to sell used media. They allege that your purchase of the media is not a purchase at all, but only a non transferable license to view or listen. If that's the case, they should be obligated to provide me with copies of the work in any form it is available in. Once I've purchased a license once, why should I have to a second time, if it is the performance I am paying for? Make it a purchase or license, but not both of them as convenient.

Message edited by author 2010-11-19 10:22:38.
11/19/2010 10:25:33 AM · #3
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Once I've purchased a license once, why should I have to a second time, if it is the performance I am paying for?


Isn't that what you do in the real world when you buy tickets to a theater or concert hall?

R.

11/19/2010 10:35:01 AM · #4
You're misinterpreting my point, Robert. If I purchased a non transferable license to listen to "Amarillo by Morning", I should have the right to listen to that on any device I choose that is is available for. But I can't sell it. On the other hand, If I have purchased the media as an LP, then I will need to repurchase it on a CD, and then as a digital file, but I can sell the old media if I choose. The media creators want it both ways. They want you to buy the media many times, but take away the right to sell it, so that they will sell more new ones. Certainly that's the capitalist way, and I can't fault them for trying to make more money, but the government does not need to be part of this.

Message edited by author 2010-11-19 10:35:50.
11/19/2010 10:37:53 AM · #5
this is a shame becuase it seemed like we were on the right track and maybe still are.

with the popularity of online steaming and business models like netflix, itunes, and the disney treasure chest (or whatever its called) it seemed like we were making progress.

I think businesses need to realize why people hack and conjure up these sites, its becuase they are unhappy with the current models.

for instance, i rip blurays. they are huge, about 20gbs a pop and take quite a while to do. why do i do this? Because i want to watch them through a computer attached to my tv. for whatever reason the MPAA doesn't like that, becuase the system is open, they fear i will share the movie. I have no intention to, i rip it becuase it don't want to be forced to sit through 6 or 7 previews everytime i watch it, and the playback software for bluray on a pc blows peanuts and costs a fortune, some of the new movies wont play, yada yada. ripping solves all that, but I need to use illegal software to break the encryption before i can rip it.

All i want to do is watch a movie or listen to music on any platform I CHOOSE, not one chosen for me.

11/19/2010 10:51:29 AM · #6
I think in the internet/digital media age, copyright law is getting nearly impossible to enforce and needs some updating. You can't throw every 12 year old that downloads or shares an mp3 in jail.
11/19/2010 10:55:04 AM · #7
This is what happens when old men control something they don't understand.
11/19/2010 11:04:18 AM · #8
Consumer rights are a thing of the past. This whole buy a license to view it crap is driving me away from movies and music and guess what, that leaves me more time to enjoy life as it should be enjoyed, by not sitting in front of a TV and getting fat. I have cut down on TV watching by 95% and am on the verge of cancelling my cable. I download everything I watch now, no ads, no previews, bliss. I have lost all feelings for any artist crying about lost revenues. boohoohoo I would love to give my money to them but it's the middle men that I have a huge problem with. Especially after seeing news like this where large corporate entities lobby OUR governments to make us buy stuff at inflated prices and listen or watch them where they want us to. Then they try to tell us that what we've bought and paid for isn't really ours but only a license to view/read/hear it. THIS IS NOT CAPITALISM, it's abuse and look at where most young people get their entertainment these days? Good for them!

11/19/2010 11:14:44 AM · #9
There will still be a few governments who won't succumb to the lobbies and these "copyright infringing companies" will set up shop there.

Next we'll see the government blocking those IPs here in the US, then we will be on our way to becoming a completely Communist states.
11/19/2010 11:32:12 AM · #10
Originally posted by mike_311:

There will still be a few governments who won't succumb to the lobbies and these "copyright infringing companies" will set up shop there.

Next we'll see the government blocking those IPs here in the US, then we will be on our way to becoming a completely Communist states.


Consumerism : the act of buying stuff without owning it. Everything belongs to corporations and we get nothing in return because it'll become illegal to sell your original to your mother or friends. Quite the business model.
11/19/2010 11:37:45 AM · #11
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by mike_311:

There will still be a few governments who won't succumb to the lobbies and these "copyright infringing companies" will set up shop there.

Next we'll see the government blocking those IPs here in the US, then we will be on our way to becoming a completely Communist states.


Consumerism : the act of buying stuff without owning it. Everything belongs to corporations and we get nothing in return because it'll become illegal to sell your original to your mother or friends. Quite the business model.


a business model is a business model, and more power to them if it works. Just don't do crying to the government if the masses don't like it and revolt against it.
11/19/2010 11:58:37 AM · #12
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

You're misinterpreting my point, Robert.


I don't think I am. I'm just trying to point out a parallel that muddies the waters a little, I don't think your point's as strong as you do.

Still, I will concede that when you go to a theater you *know* you're buying a "license" to watch a movie once, and once only. When you buy a DVD, it's not exactly crystal-clear that you're buying the right to watch the media in perpetuity, but not the media itself. So, basically, they're saying all those folks at swap meets with tables offering "used" recordings for sale are in violation of copyright law, right?

Good luck enforcing that one LOL.

I do agree with you, and everyone else who thinks this is getting ridiculous. I just thought it was an interesting parallel I had pointed out...

R.
11/19/2010 12:07:38 PM · #13
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

You're misinterpreting my point, Robert.


I don't think I am. I'm just trying to point out a parallel that muddies the waters a little, I don't think your point's as strong as you do.

Still, I will concede that when you go to a theater you *know* you're buying a "license" to watch a movie once, and once only. When you buy a DVD, it's not exactly crystal-clear that you're buying the right to watch the media in perpetuity, but not the media itself. So, basically, they're saying all those folks at swap meets with tables offering "used" recordings for sale are in violation of copyright law, right?

Good luck enforcing that one LOL.

I do agree with you, and everyone else who thinks this is getting ridiculous. I just thought it was an interesting parallel I had pointed out...

R.


think the confusion is coming form decades of being able to do what you want with physical media, now all the sudden they change rules becuase it hurts their pocket books.

For the longest time if i bought a cd or record or piece of software i could sell it, now i supposedly can't.

Even under your definition, If i purchase the right, albeit perpetually, to watch or listen to a form of media, why can't i sell (transfer if you prefer) that right, so long as i give up my right to it?

Its becuase they don't want me to transfer my right, they want someone else to buy another right from them and someone else, and someone else.

They are taking away our rights under the guise of copyright infringement.

Damn the man, save the Empire.

Message edited by author 2010-11-19 12:13:51.
11/19/2010 04:54:58 PM · #14
Originally posted by LoudDog:

You can't throw every 12 year old that downloads or shares an mp3 in jail.

Hmmm... if combined with a prison work / manufacturing program, this may just be our solution to reducing Chinese imports.
*adding that to my economic solutions platform for my upcoming campaign*
11/19/2010 05:19:31 PM · #15
Originally posted by mike_311:

Even under your definition...


Whoa, it's not MY definition. I don't have a horse in this race. I was just probing the concepts here, seeing how OP might distinguish between "tickets" and "licenses", it seems an interesting point to me.

Personally, I'm stunned at the idea I might not have the right to sell ANYTHING that I have paid for, once I don't need it any longer.

R.
11/19/2010 08:53:51 PM · #16
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by mike_311:

Even under your definition...


Whoa, it's not MY definition. I don't have a horse in this race. I was just probing the concepts here, seeing how OP might distinguish between "tickets" and "licenses", it seems an interesting point to me.

R.


ok, under your example...

11/19/2010 10:25:19 PM · #17
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by LoudDog:

You can't throw every 12 year old that downloads or shares an mp3 in jail.

Hmmm... if combined with a prison work / manufacturing program, this may just be our solution to reducing Chinese imports.
*adding that to my economic solutions platform for my upcoming campaign*


Careful where you go with that...

With the looks of your old campaign ads, I'm sure you've thought of infringing on Shepard Fairey's work ;)

Originally posted by Jac:

Consumer rights are a thing of the past. This whole buy a license to view it crap is driving me away from movies and music and guess what, that leaves me more time to enjoy life as it should be enjoyed, by not sitting in front of a TV and getting fat. I have cut down on TV watching by 95% and am on the verge of cancelling my cable. I download everything I watch now, no ads, no previews, bliss. I have lost all feelings for any artist crying about lost revenues. boohoohoo I would love to give my money to them but it's the middle men that I have a huge problem with. Especially after seeing news like this where large corporate entities lobby OUR governments to make us buy stuff at inflated prices and listen or watch them where they want us to. Then they try to tell us that what we've bought and paid for isn't really ours but only a license to view/read/hear it. THIS IS NOT CAPITALISM, it's abuse and look at where most young people get their entertainment these days? Good for them!

Definitely the same with me. I'm all for paying for my music when it goes to the people who make it. One thing that's been interesting about the evolution of digital media is that it's allowed artists to easily create their own marketplace and sell downloads directly to customers, eliminating the price gouging. Granted, this model has largely only been adapted by small to medium size artists and a few big acts that want to shake things up (Radiohead, for example), but I think that it has been a positive shift in that respect.

Message edited by author 2010-11-19 22:25:46.
11/19/2010 10:30:04 PM · #18
here is another artcle, looks like is not going to have many legs, but still scary none the less..

//www.pcworld.com/article/211162/senator_threatens_to_block_onl....html

this part really bothers me:

The bill would allow the U.S. Department of Justice to seek expedited court orders requiring U.S. domain-name registrars to shut down domestic websites suspected of hosting infringing materials. The bill would also allow the DOJ, through court orders, to order U.S. ISPs to redirect customer traffic away from infringing foreign websites.




Message edited by author 2010-11-19 22:36:20.
11/20/2010 05:01:02 AM · #19
Well if I own the license to the media I should be able to download for free all of the CDs that are boxed up in a basement in Seattle. That'd save me a lot of moving costs, for sure.

ETA the liner notes as well.

Message edited by author 2010-11-20 05:02:03.
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