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10/18/2010 12:20:15 AM · #1 |
Can someone please explain what's the difference between fill flash and Flash photography?
I'm was under the impression that fill flash was used to even light on the subject from natural light or a back light.
Am I totally off?
Not a gripe, just want to understand.
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10/18/2010 12:22:36 AM · #2 |
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10/18/2010 12:23:49 AM · #3 |
| That was always my take on fill flash...it was used to fill in, not totally light the subject as the subject should already be lit somewhat. I'm curious to know, too. |
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10/18/2010 12:25:07 AM · #4 |
Fill flash, in a studio setting, is used to soften the harshness of the main lights. It's really the "original" use of fill flash, I think. Before there were softboxes and all that, it was pretty critical to use fill.
The only ones in the challenge I felt were DNMC were the ones that seemed to use the flash as the ONLY light source...
R.
Message edited by author 2010-10-18 00:25:44. |
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10/18/2010 12:30:50 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
Can someone please explain what's the difference between fill flash and Flash photography?
I'm was under the impression that fill flash was used to even light on the subject from natural light or a back light.
Am I totally off?
Not a gripe, just want to understand. |
That's my take on it. Fill flash to me is what I use when I'm taking shots into the setting sun and still want a nicely lit subject.
To be completely honest, now that you mention it, yours, 10, 11 and 13 were the only shots in the top 20 that fulfilled my interpretation of fill flash. |
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10/18/2010 03:13:25 AM · #6 |
| Why is it that all the top results had dark backgrounds, to me it is more difficult to show the use of fill flash with a light background bring the subject to stand out as well, there is water with sunlight on my photo and the fill enhanced the subject to be blended, not one comment was left by any voter with thier thoughts,or was the technical side to much for them to comment? |
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10/18/2010 03:27:21 AM · #7 |
Fill Flash is any flash that is used to light a subject that would otherwise be too dark as the main light source is not lighting the camera side of them. This is why I have included a non flash example from my shoot to show that, as the sun is behind my subject there is no light on his front side. Obviously that can be fixed without flash by adjusting the exposure but then the sky would be blown out and the shot would be rubbish. So to combat this off camera flash is added as a fill.
Here are the images, you can make your own mind up but I think this is perfectly valid fill flash?
Entry
No Flash
Message edited by author 2010-10-18 03:29:01.
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10/18/2010 03:43:19 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by kevip6:
Fill Flash is any flash that is used to light a subject that would otherwise be too dark as the main light source is not lighting the camera side of them. This is why I have included a non flash example from my shoot to show that, as the sun is behind my subject there is no light on his front side. Obviously that can be fixed without flash by adjusting the exposure but then the sky would be blown out and the shot would be rubbish. So to combat this off camera flash is added as a fill.
Here are the images, you can make your own mind up but I think this is perfectly valid fill flash?
Entry
No Flash |
This is not fill flash photography, it's a flash photography. I see your subject as only silhouette, can't see anything on his face or body, so your flash is NOT filling anything, but lighting the whole subject... so it is flash photography.
Fill flash "fills" the areas darker next to some visible areas, it is not suppose to lid the whole thing. |
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10/18/2010 06:41:09 AM · #9 |
the fill flash was supposed to "fill" some shadows caused by the harsh main light. as someone had pointed out in the other thread, when does it start filling, and when does it start acting like a main light?
To me, when the flash starts to cause harsh shadows, like the blue ribbon entry, then it is not fill flash anymore.
The photo was perfectly executed. It came out very nicely. I as a beginner would surely have had a difficult time setting up a shot like that. The blue ribbon entry has a lot of technical merits. But it is not fill flash. |
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10/18/2010 07:26:31 AM · #10 |
Now you see I disagree with the generalisation that fill flash is just to reduce harsh shadows from a main light. Fill flash is very often used (in particular weddings) to allow strongly backlit subjects to be brightened up and visible against the strong backlighting. This is where the key light is behind the subject and there is no lightsource lighting the subject themselves.
In this case the sun was directly behind the subject and so I needed a Fill Flash to highlight them in the shot. Now the intensity of this fill light appears to be subject to some controversy but as I see it that intensity is not really relevant (but I can understand why this might cause some debate over the fill flash execution) as it is all the same technique for highlighting strongly backlit subjects.
I hope this explains my side of the story for this particular image and obviously the majority of voters saw this as a valid entry due to a blue ribbon and a PB score for me.
I was in no way trying to shoe horn this image into the challenge though, I took this for the Fill Flash challenge and I still believe it's a valid fill flash entry?
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10/18/2010 07:35:58 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by kevip6:
Now you see I disagree with the generalisation that fill flash is just to reduce harsh shadows from a main light. Fill flash is very often used (in particular weddings) to allow strongly backlit subjects to be brightened up and visible against the strong backlighting. This is where the key light is behind the subject and there is no lightsource lighting the subject themselves.
In this case the sun was directly behind the subject and so I needed a Fill Flash to highlight them in the shot. Now the intensity of this fill light appears to be subject to some controversy but as I see it that intensity is not really relevant (but I can understand why this might cause some debate over the fill flash execution) as it is all the same technique for highlighting strongly backlit subjects.
I hope this explains my side of the story for this particular image and obviously the majority of voters saw this as a valid entry due to a blue ribbon and a PB score for me.
I was in no way trying to shoe horn this image into the challenge though, I took this for the Fill Flash challenge and I still believe it's a valid fill flash entry? |
I agree. I think you just used a lot more "fill" than some of the other entries, but the result is stunning. |
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10/18/2010 07:40:00 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by kevip6:
Now you see I disagree with the generalisation that fill flash is just to reduce harsh shadows from a main light. Fill flash is very often used (in particular weddings) to allow strongly backlit subjects to be brightened up and visible against the strong backlighting. This is where the key light is behind the subject and there is no lightsource lighting the subject themselves.
In this case the sun was directly behind the subject and so I needed a Fill Flash to highlight them in the shot. Now the intensity of this fill light appears to be subject to some controversy but as I see it that intensity is not really relevant (but I can understand why this might cause some debate over the fill flash execution) as it is all the same technique for highlighting strongly backlit subjects.
I hope this explains my side of the story for this particular image and obviously the majority of voters saw this as a valid entry due to a blue ribbon and a PB score for me.
I was in no way trying to shoe horn this image into the challenge though, I took this for the Fill Flash challenge and I still believe it's a valid fill flash entry? |
imho and understanding this is fill flash as the exposure it set for the background scene and the fill flash to light the subject ... if the background was not there at all then the flash would be the only light source, as it is there is the natural light source and the flash light source |
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10/18/2010 09:04:37 AM · #13 |
 Original from the camera.
As you can see from the original there is a high key back light reflecting off the water behind the subject, this caused a shadow effect on the forground that required fill flash to bring the forground into perspective with the background and remove the shadows, this is my understanding of fill flash following research before doing the shoot with high key background light. with out detracting from the higher positioned entries I believe most are Flash photography as the flash only highlighted the like a flash should under normal cercumstances, where as fill flash photography brings the forground and background together still allowing contrast.
 Submission after some processing
Message edited by author 2010-10-18 09:07:19. |
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10/18/2010 09:39:50 AM · #14 |
I honestly think the top three were the best images from the challenge even if I have my doubts that they fit the challenge, they have their merits that I can say.
Im in agreement with BrianR on what I thought Fill Flash was. Something that the background is so bright that one must use flash to even the light on the subjects.
To me if the background is dark or darker than the subject then its really just flash.
If youre manipulating shadows and its just flash.
If I had known that I would have used one of these images instead of the one I entered:
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10/18/2010 09:44:24 AM · #15 |
Jaime, I thought your entry was better then those three anyway! I had yours in my top votes in the challenge, as I commented during voting.
I thought your entry was excellent!
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10/18/2010 10:31:47 AM · #16 |
Google "Define: fill flash" and get the following:
Definitions of fill flash on the Web:
Fill flash is a photographic technique used to brighten deep shadow areas, typically outdoors on sunny days, though the technique is useful any time the background is significantly brighter than the subject of the photograph. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_flash
Where the flash is used to help balance areas of the exposure or to remove harsh shadows. See Lighting section for more details.
www.tribalcog.com/learn/glossary.shtml
A technique to brighten dark shadow areas, often used when the subject is located in the dark shadow.
www.scrapjazz.com/topics/Photography/Lessons/1046.php
(Also known as flash-on.) Flash mode in which the camera fires the flash for every shot. Fill flash can be used to soften shadows in bright outdoor light by filling them with light.
www.frommers.com/articles/353.html
For whatever that's worth. Based on the above, every image being discussed in this thread uses fill flash :-) |
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10/18/2010 05:43:27 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Google "Define: fill flash" and get the following:
Definitions of fill flash on the Web:
Fill flash is a photographic technique used to brighten deep shadow areas, typically outdoors on sunny days, though the technique is useful any time the background is significantly brighter than the subject of the photograph. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_flash
Where the flash is used to help balance areas of the exposure or to remove harsh shadows. See Lighting section for more details.
www.tribalcog.com/learn/glossary.shtml
A technique to brighten dark shadow areas, often used when the subject is located in the dark shadow.
www.scrapjazz.com/topics/Photography/Lessons/1046.php
(Also known as flash-on.) Flash mode in which the camera fires the flash for every shot. Fill flash can be used to soften shadows in bright outdoor light by filling them with light.
www.frommers.com/articles/353.html
For whatever that's worth. Based on the above, every image being discussed in this thread uses fill flash :-) |
By those definitions, any use of flash is necessarily fill flash, since you're applying light to fill an area that you want to be brighter. Personally, I can't decide if I agree with this very wide approach or a narrower criteria.
Message edited by author 2010-10-18 17:44:02. |
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