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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> TTL or manual flash?
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05/27/2010 01:41:00 PM · #1
I would like to know if you guys prefer manual flash or TTL more? I use TTL on camera and manual off camera. Any tips when to use manual or TTL would be great!! Still trying to understand Nikon CLS fully.
05/27/2010 02:17:23 PM · #2
I follow a lot of portrait forums. Most, if not all of the really great work is done using manual everything. The advice given to newbies is always the same ... "learn manual flash". They all admit that for fast moving events such as weddings - ttl is the way to go because of time constraints.

Having said that ... I use TTL 100% of the time. Mostly because I still consider myself a newbie. My goal this year is to feel comfortable using all manual controls.
05/27/2010 02:34:22 PM · #3
Originally posted by hopper:

I follow a lot of portrait forums. Most, if not all of the really great work is done using manual everything. The advice given to newbies is always the same ... "learn manual flash". They all admit that for fast moving events such as weddings - ttl is the way to go because of time constraints.

Having said that ... I use TTL 100% of the time. Mostly because I still consider myself a newbie. My goal this year is to feel comfortable using all manual controls.


I've been mainly using TTL and don't really feel the need to go to manual. You can set flash exposure on camera and meter off any part of your subject with TTL. With the Canon Speedlites (at least the 580EX II) you can set lighting ratios, trigger wireless, etc.

05/27/2010 02:35:47 PM · #4
well yeah its good to learn manual, however dont forget teh automated stuff, youve paid your money for all this technology so may aswell give it a try, if results arent what you like then nothing lost really, plus loads of people rave about Nikon CLS.
05/27/2010 02:40:16 PM · #5
TTL flash won't give you the same exact result twice. The flash power will be tweaked a touch every time you shoot depending upon very slight changes in the scene. So if you take "the perfect photo" .. you won't be able to repeat the lighting if you aren't in manual.
05/27/2010 02:40:32 PM · #6
//strobist.blogspot.com is a great resource for learning off camera flash. I can't stress that enough. (You'd think I was buddies with David Hobby or something.) Anyways, the strobist approach is all manual.

Message edited by author 2010-05-27 14:41:33.
05/27/2010 02:41:45 PM · #7
Usually TTL-enabled flashes off-camera with TTL-enabled wireless communication is an expensive proposition. But If your flashes are capable of TTL, by all means use it - especially in a fast-moving situation.

In the end, balancing various light sources (including ambient) is the key to great flash pictures. Whether TTL or manual, this is your goal. If TTL restricts you in this, use manual. I guess it depends on the system, but even using TTL you should be able to control the relative powers of each flash, right? Though if you get used to setting flash powers manually, then you'll be able to switch between flashes and larger studio strobes with little headache.
05/27/2010 03:01:00 PM · #8
Joe McNally seems to embrace TTL. I have yet to take a good photo with TTL. But, I guess you can compare it with manuel or aperture priority on the camera. One year ago I didn't know what to do with aperture pri. Today I don't shoot with any other setting unless I have to. When you now how the system thinks and work, the system is usually the best aproach.

I felt like saying this, because TODAY I was thinking: "Maybe I'll look at TTL abit more, find out how it works and such". And here you are...

Originally posted by Citadel:

//strobist.blogspot.com is a great resource for learning off camera flash. I can't stress that enough. (You'd think I was buddies with David Hobby or something.) Anyways, the strobist approach is all manual.


The strobist is a great blog. Learned alot from him. But if I remember correctly he uses SB-28 flashes and triggers them with pocket wizards, so he have no other choice but to be in manual the all time. TTL can save you alot of time and effort. Still, everynow and then the system will fail on you. When that happenes, it's good to know how to work it anyway.

The best way to figure it out is to drag someone or something out in changing ligthing conditions and do some tests. Find an old teddybear and ducktape it to a tree or something. Voila, you have a model.

Message edited by author 2010-05-27 15:10:28.
05/27/2010 03:03:38 PM · #9
I keep trying TTL on occasion but often revert to manual as I get better exposures that way.
05/27/2010 03:31:52 PM · #10
Originally posted by PhotoDave:

I keep trying TTL on occasion but often revert to manual as I get better exposures that way.


This may be a silly question, but what spot are you metering from? I believe the 7D default to the center point but can be set to use any focus point. I never changed mine so I preflash with the center point to set exposure, then compose, focus and shoot. I'll usually choose a cheek, chin, whatever and it seems to work fine.

Message edited by author 2010-05-27 16:17:51.
05/27/2010 04:11:11 PM · #11
Originally posted by BJokerud:



Originally posted by Citadel:

//strobist.blogspot.com is a great resource for learning off camera flash. I can't stress that enough. (You'd think I was buddies with David Hobby or something.) Anyways, the strobist approach is all manual.


The strobist is a great blog. Learned alot from him. But if I remember correctly he uses SB-28 flashes and triggers them with pocket wizards, so he have no other choice but to be in manual the all time. TTL can save you alot of time and effort. Still, everynow and then the system will fail on you. When that happenes, it's good to know how to work it anyway.


He is quite anti-TTL on his blog. Still..he had one post where he uses it. (a recent post even - //strobist.blogspot.com/2010/05/dave-honl-goes-soft-on-us.html ) The reason he went with it was a good one. You can use higher sync speeds if you go TTL. Basically the flash fires a lower power output throughout the whole shot rather than one burst. (On the Nikon you need to put your camera into Auto FP mode). Something I need to try out...now where is that teddybear? :)
05/27/2010 09:53:40 PM · #12
thanks to all that reply. You guys are the best!!!!
05/27/2010 10:50:28 PM · #13
I just started to experiment and learn with two nikon flashes. I almost exclusivly use manual. The TTL rarely produces what I want.
05/28/2010 02:40:19 AM · #14
Played around tonight with commander mode using my sb600 and my Sigma (in slave mode). I now realize that this ain't gonna work. The D90 fires a preflash for the ttl stuff which of course triggers the Sigma. The camera takes a reading of the scene which of course is lit by the Sigma and sets the power of the SB600 to nothing resulting in a straight black image. Dang.

Still experimenting to see if I can disable TTL AND still use commander mode on the D90 to trigger the SB600.
05/28/2010 07:43:53 AM · #15
Originally posted by Citadel:



Still experimenting to see if I can disable TTL AND still use commander mode on the D90 to trigger the SB600.


The built in flash commander mode is the same on the D90 and D300 I think, and I have no trouble firing flashes set to manual. I'm pretty sure you can change from TTL to M in the commander mode.
05/28/2010 08:18:39 AM · #16
I'm no expert but I think M is the way to go although at an event TTL, for the most part, will give you a little more consistency.



I took both of those yesterday with a HONL Softbox paired with an SB-900 on TTL (off-camera Remote). They're ok shots, imo but certainly could have used some better tempered lighting. Machine/Computers never make the best decisions...kinda like the uneven exposures you get when shooting in A or P modes...nothing beats taking full control of the camera or Flash unit, in this case.

Message edited by author 2010-05-28 08:22:59.
05/28/2010 08:59:55 AM · #17
[not flash-related]

pawdrix, I just noticed that your user ID is 32767. What a cool number to have.

[/not flash-related]
05/28/2010 09:26:22 AM · #18
[not flash-related]

You got me staring at the number...but I don't get what's cool? Splain...

[/not flash-related]
05/28/2010 09:40:47 AM · #19
[NFR]

Oh, 32767 is the highest value that a signed integer variable can have in certain programming languages. (The range is from -32768 to 32767.) The total range--65,536--is 2^16 for the two bytes (sixteen bits) required to store that information. Exceed this range of values and you need more than sixteen bits, which some languages can't do. An attempt to assign larger values than 32767 to integer variables led to a program crash.

So 32767 was a very important number when I was messing around with programming. And I thought it was cool that you got that user ID.

[/NFR]

ETA: That may be a pretty lousy explanation, but I'm not sure I could do better.

Message edited by author 2010-05-28 09:47:33.
05/28/2010 09:52:18 AM · #20
Originally posted by mycelium:

[NFR]So 32767 was a very important number when I was messing around with programming. And I thought it was cool that you got that user ID.

[/NFR]

ETA: That may be a pretty lousy explanation, but I'm not sure I could do better.


So, in other words according to that number, I'm very important AND not to be fucked with...? A person of high value...
05/28/2010 09:55:13 AM · #21
actually, he may have called you a menacing limitation that causes crashes
05/28/2010 09:55:31 AM · #22
Judging by your age and profile pic at DPC, you don't need IMBA numbers....
05/28/2010 10:27:46 AM · #23
Originally posted by hopper:

actually, he may have called you a menacing limitation that causes crashes


Oh. Well, that's no good then... (bummer)

Let's talk about Flash, in that case. lolololol



I shot The Drama Desk Awards After Party (this past Sunday night), mostly in M but in one particular room TTL seemed to work better due to changing light conditions in certain areas. So, the deal imho, is to mix things up accordingly. Learn the equipment.

BTW that's the Bon Jovi dude (Keyboardist-David Bryan) who won an award for the score of Memphis.

Message edited by author 2010-05-28 11:55:50.
05/28/2010 11:18:52 AM · #24
I agree with Steve. In a situation like this, it's probably best to pick a shutter speed and ISO that'll let in enough ambient to see the surroundings, then allow the TTL flash to figure out how to properly light the subject.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

TTL seemed work better due to changing light conditions in certain areas

05/28/2010 11:39:50 AM · #25
... or where properly to fit an adverb in your syntax ...

(runs)
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