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12/17/2002 07:53:35 PM · #1 |
I've been in to photography since black and white was all you could get unless you were a professional photographer. I was so excited when they came out with colored film. Now I have a question. It is a genuine question and not a sarcastic one, as I figure some would think. What is all the interest in black and white? I have seen beautiful scenery photos ruined, in my personal opinion, by making them black & white. Don't get me wrong I can see some things look good in B&W, but not beautiful scenery. I've also seen beautiful portraits in black and white. What am I missing out on? In college we didn't see this in "Art Appreciation" classes. I can understand Sepia tones to make something look old, and a few other times. What is it that black and white is supposed to do better than color. Or is it just personal preference. I sincerely need some help here and would appreciate any help anyone can give me. Even if you want to tell me I'm crazy to like color.
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12/17/2002 07:59:11 PM · #2 |
| Take a look at the Black and White Challenge for several very, very good examples of scenes that are clearly betting in B&W than they would be in color. |
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12/17/2002 08:19:18 PM · #3 |
Clyde Butcher said it best... "Color is a duplication, B&W is an interpretation".
I think that BW reflects a mood and color reflects a place in time. Don't really know how to explain it better. Go to Clydes site... www.clydebutcher.com . In color his images would take on a postcard look. In BW they take on a life of their own...
JMO...
Dave
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12/17/2002 09:08:24 PM · #4 |
| black and white is about tonal gradation and contrast. for me it's just typically more pleasant to look at. more often than not a colour photograph contains colours that aren't complimentary and are often distracting. i try not to finish in colour unless there's something spectacular or very pleasing about the colours in the shot. |
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12/17/2002 09:10:12 PM · #5 |
| I think of color photography as prose, and B/W as poetry. Sometimes the restrictions of a form are what makes it so effective. |
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12/17/2002 09:26:05 PM · #6 |
Take a look at Ansel Adams' work.
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12/17/2002 11:40:01 PM · #7 |
Brightly coloured objects will always grab a person's attention more than something that's just a muddy brown or grey. This is why road workers wear yellow and orange. This is why male peacocks and birds of paradise have such amazing plumage. This is why really poisonous snakes and spiders advertise their lethalness to predators with bright colours, so predators might avoid them and not have to be killed (nice of them, really).
In a photo, if you want all the viewer's attention to go to the object with the brightest colour, then colour photography is fine for you. Use it. But sometimes you don't want that.
Black and white photography puts everything in your scene on an equal footing, colour-wise. When you remove the colour from the scene, the viewer's attention will wander around the photo, looking more closely at things that might not have seemed interesting in a colour version. They take their time to notice patterns of light and shade, shapes and textures. This helps to show off the more subtle elements of your photo, which is why B&W works so well if you want to convey a certain mood.
B&W just for the sake of it may not work well, but when it is a deliberate decision by the artist to get you to connect with the scene in a certain way, it's just as good a tool as any other in photography.
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12/17/2002 11:42:32 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by irae:
I think of color photography as prose, and B/W as poetry. Sometimes the restrictions of a form are what makes it so effective. |
Touche...
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12/17/2002 11:57:13 PM · #9 |
Try this experiment---go back in the archives of past challennges and pick out some of the pictures you 'didn't get',drop them into your photo processing program and drop out the color making them just black and white.
You may be suprised at what new insights you get. |
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12/18/2002 12:03:53 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Digipixer:
Try this experiment---go back in the archives of past challennges and pick out some of the pictures you 'didn't get',drop them into your photo processing program and drop out the color making them just black and white.
You may be suprised at what new insights you get. |
Certain images work better in black and white than others. Not all great photos will work out nicely in duotone. When I shoot certain photos that I intend to finish in black and white, I usually expose them a little differently as well...
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12/18/2002 12:23:12 AM · #11 |
| It would be kind of interesting to pick out a photo and put it up in color and next to it B/W and ask the group to pick the one with the most impact and explain why. |
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12/18/2002 12:33:02 AM · #12 |
Interesting idea for sure... If I see a comparison like that where I like the black and white best, I would be stupid enough to ask why it was not presented in black and white originally :)
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12/19/2002 12:29:22 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Brightly coloured objects will always grab a person's attention more than something that's just a muddy brown or grey. This is why road workers wear yellow and orange. This is why male peacocks and birds of paradise have such amazing plumage. This is why really poisonous snakes and spiders advertise their lethalness to predators with bright colours, so predators might avoid them and not have to be killed (nice of them, really).
In a photo, if you want all the viewer's attention to go to the object with the brightest colour, then colour photography is fine for you. Use it. But sometimes you don't want that.
Black and white photography puts everything in your scene on an equal footing, colour-wise. When you remove the colour from the scene, the viewer's attention will wander around the photo, looking more closely at things that might not have seemed interesting in a colour version. They take their time to notice patterns of light and shade, shapes and textures. This helps to show off the more subtle elements of your photo, which is why B&W works so well if you want to convey a certain mood.
B&W just for the sake of it may not work well, but when it is a deliberate decision by the artist to get you to connect with the scene in a certain way, it's just as good a tool as any other in photography. |
This helps me a understand a lot more. I appreciate the way you explained it. This makes a lot of sense to me, about the viewers eye wandering around the photo and seeing things they wouldn't have noticed before - the things that are so important to me in color, details. These are little things that most people miss, but catch your eye, especially in color if they are off; in B&W if they are different. This also will help me in scoring a B&W better. Thanks for your time.
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12/19/2002 12:31:05 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Davenit:
Clyde Butcher said it best... "Color is a duplication, B&W is an interpretation".
I think that BW reflects a mood and color reflects a place in time. Don't really know how to explain it better. Go to Clydes site... www.clydebutcher.com . In color his images would take on a postcard look. In BW they take on a life of their own...
JMO...
Thanks. I understand what you mean. Hadn't thought about that before. Makes sense though.
Dave |
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12/19/2002 12:38:09 PM · #15 |
I personally love black and white images. True PTL some images are disserved by the BW format. But to me, BW lends a subdued mood to an image that, if consistent with the rest of the image, compliments it. I hear ya...color is king. But I am a blues, dark moods person. Personally, BW images are my preference. Sometimes, I'll admit, I "force" a BW format on an image that should be color. And guess what?...it shows up in comments and scoring.
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12/19/2002 04:32:24 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Digipixer:
It would be kind of interesting to pick out a photo and put it up in color and next to it B/W and ask the group to pick the one with the most impact and explain why. |
This I would like...someplace you could post both color and B&W of the same shot and let people score them by balanceing one against the other. Besides then people could chose for themselves which works for them on that particular shot. Since so much of photography is in the eyes of the beholder. That's why we have so many different kinds of photographers and artists. Since my love of photography runs towards scenery, animals, including insects, and people, this is probably why I like it in color? I know you've seen, and probably gotten, my comments such as good BUT would like to see it in color. Does your taste of subject dictate the finish you like? Let's see them both side by side.
As for my going back into the archives and dropping them into my system, I hate to admit my stupidity, but I don't know how to do that. Would love to try it, when I learn how. Thanks for the suggestion
Message edited by author 2002-12-19 16:34:29.
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12/20/2002 12:13:26 AM · #17 |
If the color isn't actually contributing to the image then I usually try it out in B&W or some sort of quadtone. Sometimes the color is just a distraction. I've also used B&W to downplay some very bright areas in photos - b&w sometimes makes them less obvious somehow.
I chose to use B&W in my photojournalism pic, for instance, for two reasons:
1. You often see photojournalism shots in black and white so it just seemed to make sense.
2. The photo had some bright colors competing for the viewer's attention (pink and red side-by-side in the center of the shot).
A couple of people did suggest that color would have helped, but those who saw the two shots side by side agreed with my decision. |
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12/20/2002 01:08:31 AM · #18 |
Don't get me wrong, I like color pictures, love 'em as a matter of fact. However, color is they easy way out.
When I used to build race cars, the old saying was "If it don't go, chrome it." Much the same could be said of photos. Fabulous color is pleasing to the eye, and covers a myriad of technical/composition sins. A really great picture will look great in black and white, and in color. A so-so picture is one that requires color to make it work.
Me, I take bad-bad pictures, so you won't see much black and white from me. This week is about as close as I will probably get.
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12/20/2002 01:36:30 AM · #19 |
| I absolutely LOVE color photos. Strong colors usually draw me, and I find that they get high scores from me both here and on photosig. However, I've noticed recently that almost all of the framed photographs in the homes of Country Living, Metropolitan Home, House Beautiful etc. are black and white!! Maybe it is just easier that way because they won't clash with the decor, but I think it's also because they often look more classic and sophisticated. |
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12/20/2002 07:57:46 AM · #20 |
I love both color and b&w.. I think they both have their place when used effectively. I know what you are saying though --- I think maybe you are saying it is overused in some situations. That may be true... or not.. depends on what the photog is trying to say. Have they used color or b&w to portray their feelings effectively? Could be subjective, could be they really have or haven't.
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12/20/2002 09:25:53 AM · #21 |
This has been a wonderful discussion. It has explained the differences in B/W and color and has been helpful for the readers.
Out of it I have an idea. Considering we now have two challenges each week, why not have one be "Color" and the other be "Black & White". You could enter the same picture in each one. That should put the wheels of imagination in motion.
Autool |
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12/20/2002 09:40:47 AM · #22 |
That's an interesting suggestion autool. Maybe the rules could be 'bent' a bit to allow for the 'same' photo to be entered twice... even though it would be in two different challenges.
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12/20/2002 10:55:18 AM · #23 |
My take is that colour is just another compositional tool. If it is used well it can be the main component in an image, or it can really detract from the actual subject. It can enhance the mood the photographer is trying to capture or it can destroy it. Black & white photography just removes this compositional element and focuses on the tonal arrangement.
Whether or not it is easier to express yourself successfully in black and white because of the restriction in the use of colour to make a point is an interesting question.
Are more options better or worse ? Depends on the person and the particular photograph. I often try black & whites when I'm taking a picture of something where the colour either doesn't enhance the image or the subject was interesting in the first place because of its texture/ patterns. I find it hard to 'see' in black and white though. |
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12/20/2002 08:55:26 PM · #24 |
As I was looking in my portfolio the other day, I realized that 90% of my images were B/W or duotoned. I also noticed that my top 5 were ALL notable due to their absence of color. Interesting.
When I started with this site I was a complete novice snapshot photographer. I didn't have a very good camera, and used it mostly to capture memories and things that I thought were "funny." Now that I've really made it a point to immerse myself in photography as a hobby, I'm noticing that the pictures that really leap out at me are the ones with most simple color -- or no color. The starkness just makes so many details pop out to me. I can't explain it, but it's definitely a trend I have seen myself developing -- and it's natural that that's seeped into the way that I'm shooting.
Perhaps it's as simple as the preference between vanilla and chocolate ice cream. Certain things appeal to certain people. I've found my voting style has changed lately as well -- I've spent less time judging based on what my immediate reaction is and more time thinking about each image, why the photog tried to do it, and why they might not have done it "the way I would have." The member's challenges and the critique club especially have helped that.
I thought that spending time on this site would make me a better photographer. What I didn't anticipate was that spending so much time here would make me a better photograph viewer.
Rob
Message edited by author 2002-12-20 20:56:25.
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12/20/2002 10:24:42 PM · #25 |
I find I'm also a better photograph viewer and, I think, better at scoring them, especially since I've raised this question. I've read what all of you have said and have learned a lot. I also learned, or re-emphasized, it's really a matter of personal opinion or likes. But I now score photo not so much on my personal like, B&W vs color, as what is the photo. I'm beginning to think the nail was hit on the head with "B&W is more sophisticated looking", and that is something I ain't, sophisticated. I'm not into abstract art and find it actually makes me kinda up-tight the longer I look at it. Also the intentionally out of focus ones tear (tare, tair?) me up. I guess my likes in photography reflect me; who I am, what makes me happy, what I like, etc. I'd be happy living in a log cabin in the country surrounded by family, friends, and animals. Doesn't take much to make me happy. I guess what I'm thinking is my kind of photographs won't score too high here; cute kids, cute pets, landscapes, etc. I'm more interested in learning how to make those better, than learning how to make a photo look like modern art. Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say? Of course I don't want to get all 2s and 3s but I don't expect to be in the top 10. What chances do I have? And I know only a few of you have seen any of my work, personal e-mails for them to critique. I haven't gotten enough courage to submit my kind of pictures yet. But thanks to all of you for taking the time to answer and help me. I really appreciate it, and who knows maybe someone else out there needed this too.
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