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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Relax... SCORES aren't supposed to make ZENse!
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Showing posts 76 - 100 of 152, (reverse)
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 04/21/2010 11:05:46 AM · #76
Originally posted by K10DGuy:


Teams can't vote on team members' entries. They are treated like your own. They are placed at the end of the challenge thumbnails in the same place as your own photo and are impossible to vote on, so that's not a problem.

IF there is underhanded voting going on, it's by people that are simply voting everything lower than they usually would. My hope, however, is that voting patterns are being carefully monitored for any real changes or trends both pre-DPL and during DPL to find and put a stop to any such types of voting trends, if they actually exist.


That is interesting--so if everyone in DPL actually KNOWS that they will be guaranteed to only be voting on Other Teams entries, and not any (anonymous) entries of their own team, one has to wonder if folks are a bit more free with low scores....... And it could, naturally, then affect the scoring for non DPL entries....
 04/21/2010 11:09:03 AM · #77
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:


Teams can't vote on team members' entries. They are treated like your own. They are placed at the end of the challenge thumbnails in the same place as your own photo and are impossible to vote on, so that's not a problem.

IF there is underhanded voting going on, it's by people that are simply voting everything lower than they usually would. My hope, however, is that voting patterns are being carefully monitored for any real changes or trends both pre-DPL and during DPL to find and put a stop to any such types of voting trends, if they actually exist.


That is interesting--so if everyone in DPL actually KNOWS that they will be guaranteed to only be voting on Other Teams entries, and not any (anonymous) entries of their own team, one has to wonder if folks are a bit more free with low scores....... And it could, naturally, then affect the scoring for non DPL entries....


definitely not an improbable theory.

I wish scores at the end would show not "participants" but an average of votes by DPL competitors
 04/21/2010 11:09:49 AM · #78
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by jagar:
Well i also thought i had a reasonably good photo this time around but as i have had mainly very low vote's and one ten apparently its not so good, the person who give me a ten also left me a very nice comment, i applaud that person with one hand. Could someone explain why this dpl thing would change the voting pattern, do people in a team know what the other team members have entered ?.


Teams can't vote on team members' entries. They are treated like your own. They are placed at the end of the challenge thumbnails in the same place as your own photo and are impossible to vote on, so that's not a problem.

IF there is underhanded voting going on, it's by people that are simply voting everything lower than they usually would. My hope, however, is that voting patterns are being carefully monitored for any real changes or trends both pre-DPL and during DPL to find and put a stop to any such types of voting trends, if they actually exist.

Personally, I'm getting absolutely hammered on a shot that I'm honestly shocked is getting hammered that hard. I kind of believed I had a finger on the pulse of this place, and while I'm not at 6.5+ shooter, I'm not a 4.5- shooter either, so I don't know what gives.


Thanks for answering my question, i also believe that my shot may not be a 6.5 but its definitely not a 4 and a four is what I'm getting nearly every vote bar one, how can it be that one guy says it is a fantastic shot and gives me a ten and everyone else is giving fours, i believe as long as this league thing is still going I'll not be entering any more challenges, its just a waste.
 04/21/2010 11:10:45 AM · #79
This is a perfect time to implement forced Commenting on sub-4 votes. At least then, almost everyone would be guaranteed a 5'er. And the snakes that are handing out those 1-4 votes on good shots would be forced to give up their anonymity in the little comment box.
 04/21/2010 11:16:06 AM · #80
Not as good as I had expected but not bad. Started this morning at 5.3 so it is going up.

Votes: 50
Views: 71
Avg Vote: 5.5200
Comments: 3
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 04/21/10 11:15 am
 04/21/2010 11:20:06 AM · #81
Seriously???
4.8511

No way this is a sub 5 shot...
 04/21/2010 11:21:50 AM · #82
Personally, I have not made up my mind on how to score this competition. ZEN is a very outlandish idea to me. I googled it, and looked at previous challenges. I would have imagined that the photo's would all be calm, minmalistic, reflective, hazy etc. That's how I picture the "transfer of an idea/wisdom without speaking/teaching". Instead they are quite "normal" looking photo's, except for the rocks. So, do the "lofty" ones get double points, or do I rate the pretty ones highest or do I abstain till Iv'e ZENNNED into my correct rating mode? Decisions, decisions...
 04/21/2010 11:31:46 AM · #83
Originally posted by herfotoman:
Personally, I have not made up my mind on how to score this competition. ZEN is a very outlandish idea to me. I googled it, and looked at previous challenges. I would have imagined that the photo's would all be calm, minmalistic, reflective, hazy etc. That's how I picture the "transfer of an idea/wisdom without speaking/teaching". Instead they are quite "normal" looking photo's, except for the rocks. So, do the "lofty" ones get double points, or do I rate the pretty ones highest or do I abstain till Iv'e ZENNNED into my correct rating mode? Decisions, decisions...


This is pretty much where I'm at so far too, my thoughts on Zen would be the same, calm & minimal. Voting is pretty subjective as it is, how one feels about obtaining zen will definitely reflect their voting as well, hopefully, DPL scores will not, but that may be a lofty expectation ;)
 04/21/2010 11:35:29 AM · #84
Originally posted by jminso:
Seriously???
4.8511

No way this is a sub 5 shot...


Im riding that car right along with you and I am shocked. My first scorer this morning gave it a 6. Now its in the 4's? :<( *screams and pulls out hair*

Message edited by author 2010-04-21 11:37:22.
 04/21/2010 11:38:58 AM · #85
Originally posted by jagar:
i believe as long as this league thing is still going I'll not be entering any more challenges, its just a waste.

There was some similar hand wringing over voting on the last DPL season (and WPL before that). Analysis of the voting showed that the fears were unwarranted, and that'll likely be just as true this time around. While there will always be some small fraction that engages in such behavior, ironically the ones who do it often turn out to be the same people who fear others are doing the same (even if they aren't), and they're trying to "even the score" by returning a perceived injustice.

Incidentally, this happens with buddy voting, too. The worst cases in the last buddy voting roundup claimed that they were unfairly punished because "everybody does it." ISTR a team caught for abnormal voting in an earlier round of WPL claiming the same defense.

Just vote normally and lead by example. I've got one entry scoring WAY below expectations, and another doing the opposite. In the end, they'll both finish where they deserve to even if I don't agree. A challenge like Zen will be almost impossible to predict because the topic is so subjective and "fuzzy." An image that feels like Zen to you might be DNMC for someone else. Even the portrait challenge could be subject to unusual results since the additional "requirements" of studio and modeling portfolio might mean different things to different people.

Message edited by author 2010-04-21 11:43:25.
 04/21/2010 11:43:00 AM · #86

Votes: 44
Views: 66
Avg Vote: 4.9545
Comments: 4

Exactly what I expected.
 04/21/2010 11:44:21 AM · #87
My guess (and that's all it is) is that with challenges that have a lot of entries (such as this one) voters tend to be stingier and use the whole scale. I don't think voters are voting low (i.e. 1,2,3) so much as they are handing out a lot more 4's and 5's. Add in a challenge topic that can be interpreted in a lot of different ways and is quite abstract and you see a further drop in scores. Again just a total guess.

Message edited by author 2010-04-21 11:45:51.
 04/21/2010 11:49:09 AM · #88
Originally posted by Citadel:
My guess (and that's all it is) is that with challenges that have a lot of entries (such as this one) voters tend to be stingier and use the whole scale. I don't think voters are voting low (i.e. 1,2,3) so much as they are handing out a lot more 4's and 5's. Add in a challenge topic that can be interpreted in a lot of different ways and is quite abstract and you see a further drop in scores. Again just a total guess.


Yep... all the more reason to just rate the photo and not compare it to others in the challenge.
 04/21/2010 11:55:11 AM · #89
Originally posted by Citadel:
My guess (and that's all it is) is that with challenges that have a lot of entries (such as this one) voters tend to be stingier and use the whole scale. I don't think voters are voting low (i.e. 1,2,3) so much as they are handing out a lot more 4's and 5's. Add in a challenge topic that can be interpreted in a lot of different ways and is quite abstract and you see a further drop in scores. Again just a total guess.


Just to prove your point, I was at 5.41 after 44 votes, then received a 5, then a 3, then a SEVEN AVERAGE FROM 6 VOTES IN A ROW!

Who do I see about an early closing of the voting period?
 04/21/2010 11:55:25 AM · #90
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Citadel:
My guess (and that's all it is) is that with challenges that have a lot of entries (such as this one) voters tend to be stingier and use the whole scale. I don't think voters are voting low (i.e. 1,2,3) so much as they are handing out a lot more 4's and 5's. Add in a challenge topic that can be interpreted in a lot of different ways and is quite abstract and you see a further drop in scores. Again just a total guess.


Yep... all the more reason to just rate the photo and not compare it to others in the challenge.


For me, when there are this many entries - my scale of 'below average drops from a 4 to a 3 or 2 simply because I need more range for a scale. I decide going in what my lowest score will be (barring a obvious dnmc which I don't feel zen has as it's really interpretive) and I build from there. I do not compare the images to one another but I definitely give out more 4's and 3's because my scale has been broadened.
 04/21/2010 03:31:41 PM · #91
Votes: ??
Views: 102
Avg Vote: ??????
Comments: 8

The bliss of having scores turned off :)
 04/21/2010 03:47:16 PM · #92
Originally posted by ti_evom:
This is a perfect time to implement forced Commenting on sub-4 votes. At least then, almost everyone would be guaranteed a 5'er. And the snakes that are handing out those 1-4 votes on good shots would be forced to give up their anonymity in the little comment box.

And then we'd compress the voting scale and deem half of it worthless because nobody wanted to hurt somebody else's feelngs.
:\
This constant finger pointing at the intangible is ludicrous. Accept that people dont' like your photo, in whatever sense. Big deal.
I think those damn Pinko's are voting me down, personally....
 04/21/2010 04:13:44 PM · #93
Originally posted by citymars:
To the Zen voters...

May God release you to your highest good. Oh yeah... and you can blow me.


Thanks Larry - I really needed to laugh today :) lol
 04/21/2010 04:52:10 PM · #94
Not very Zen scores being given out right now. Maybe a few people need to discover their Buddha-nature within. ;-)
 04/21/2010 05:16:09 PM · #95
Holy crap these scores are horrendous.....

Sorry if I sound "out of the loop", but I am new here. Can someone please explain to me how the DPL could affect the scores?

04/21/2010 05:35:24 PM · #96
We're grouped into teams, and it's head-to-head competition. You can't vote on your teammates' photos, so you could just rate everyone down and hope to get through on that.

This of course hadn't occurred to me until I saw my mid-4 scores and didn't think they were that bad. I haven't voted, and probably won't. Just a guess as to what's up.

Also, there are a lot of entries. My view-to-vote ratio in Zen is nearly 1:1, which tells me people are drive-by-voting because there are so many. If they would just spend a bit more time they would notice tomorrow's winning lotto numbers in the bottom right corner. Zen is not for the impatient.
 04/21/2010 05:38:43 PM · #97
Tell me if I am wrong, but down voting other entries to have the benefit of hopefully having your team score better is pretty contradictory to the spirit of the challenge process. Especially for those of us not involved in DPL.

How do I find out if the challenge is part of DPL so I won't bother entering next time!?

edit:

Or perhaps, the SC can add something to each photo to distinguish whether it's part of DPL or not. Being part of a voting game does not interest me whatsoever.

Message edited by author 2010-04-21 17:42:27.
 04/21/2010 05:41:59 PM · #98
I practised Zarzen, the practice of sitting(Zar) thinking(Zen) for quite a few years in the '90's onwards. Most people don't have a clue what Zen is or what the practice is. They are just voting on pruddy pictures.

Stones and lines in gravel, Zen? A tree in the mist, Zen? Nope, Zen is within you and around you, it becomes you and you become it. Still, perhaps the scoring is something to think about:)

04/21/2010 05:49:45 PM · #99
Originally posted by bohemka:
If they would just spend a bit more time they would notice tomorrow's winning lotto numbers in the bottom right corner. Zen is not for the impatient.


Please tell me which one is yours so that I don't have to spend more time than I have to on every entry that I vote on.

Oh, that was the point, huh? ;)
 04/21/2010 05:50:50 PM · #100
Originally posted by glockguy:
Tell me if I am wrong, but down voting other entries to have the benefit of hopefully having your team score better is pretty contradictory to the spirit of the challenge process.

Yep, which is why the vast majority don't do that. Any time there is a team competition, related side challenge, or anything else unusual, some people will attribute low scores to that. The paranoia is not justified, though. We've looked into team voting and lowball scoring after similar accusation in earlier seasons and there really wasn't much at all— the impact was negligible. Sometimes the nature of the topic itself (especially with "nebulous" terms) leads to somewhat lower voting, but a scores thread with people complaining about lots of "unexpected" 4-5 averages is very common.
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