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03/29/2010 08:21:11 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Anyone know why??? |
I find that interesting, though I have to say that I see a jump in 2010 even if it is a small one. For me I've done more in 2010 than any other year. Why? cause work is getting so stressful I've really been turning to photography since Dec 09 or so and I've upgraded all my gear to inspire me so to speak.
However I have to say that every time I have a photo in there is a level of stress with that. watching a score that is doing okay dropping down with no idea why. It can be disheartening to say none the less, but this year is the year of photography for me. with my goal of entering as many challenges this year as I can though i was stumped on orange, and I'm really haven't yielded anything worthwhile for exit or entrance..
I can see the argument that some make about "same old, same old", and to a degree I agree with that. I also think that there is "Photography" and then there is "Contest Photography". What I mean by that is normally some of the photos I've been taking these last few months I would never have done, almost outside of my comfort zone.
This is both good and bad. It's good cause I'm starting to see the world differently, it's bad because I take a lot of photos that I think are good (and others around me are thrilled with what I do) but then I say, "will it work on DPC?".. I'm already starting to think of the viewers that will be voting.
Someone's style may be in conflict with the majority of voters so they score low all the time, and give up and move on to other sites that are more of their interest level etc. Others may find it's time to move on because it's time for new challenges with their work. Maybe there isn't enough new coming in to replace the old moving on?
Though I've met a few people through private message, and some have been extremely useful and helped me with challenges where I've missed the mark. So in the end this is still one of my fav sites.
I know.. I probably just babbled... so for whatever it's worth. (my half cent?).
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03/29/2010 08:23:22 PM · #27 |
the downward trend of entries/registrations mirrors the downward trend in the quality and creativity of this site.
DPC is an amateur site. Many other sites I frequent offer all levels of info, challenges and forums yet DPC seems populated by hobbyists, or people just starting out, meaning the people who lead the way (like it was when I first joined) have disappeared and not been replaced by anyone.
Also, the challenges suck. Plain and simple. DPC needs more expert challenges to attract the caliber of entrant that can push boundaries and i think relaxed rules on everything would make that happen. There are so many other sites where you can participate in forums with pictures, PSd to any degree and have discussions about it- DPC makes this ridiculous, not least because the submissions rules are rigid and crap, but also because in the forums you can't really post pictures (not a thumbnail, but a pic) without being victimized.
I haven't paid for a DPC membership for a while as I felt it was gearing itself at amateurs, people who don't understand their cameras, at the sacrifice of the learned people leaving.
I participate in the Fred Miranda forums far more nowadays. I think it is designed and implemented much better and has much more scope for people wanting info, plus it runs challenges.
For example, on FM, there is a wedding photographers forum, a sports photographer forum, a landscape photographer forum, Canon, Nikon, Alternative have their own forums and theres also the general ones as well as a buy/sell. It's far better oriented to the photographer looking to learn and who wants to learn quickly from people who know what they're talking about, I wish DPC was like that, but the forum structure it has is so limited and badly designed it has been overtaken by other websites offering better information, and offering it faster.
I personally feel that the forums on DPC generally seem to be overrun by the same clique of people and this site is in a comfortable state of decay. The downturn in numbers/subscriptions is no surprise and seems rather fated. To reverse it, DPC needs a major overhaul and modernize itself- make itself more appealable to professionals as well as amateurs, include news, links, get rid of the 'league' toolbar option as it is totally irrelevant nowadays (even though hundreds of people want it to be re-introduced?), get some equipment reviews (let the members here contribute something), buying guides etc... how many times have these suggestions been made? Plenty since my time here, yet the most discussed one of recent date has been the pointless suggestion for a method to check when people were last online. Who cares about that? Is that going to attract people and make them pay $25 when other sites offer the same, and more, for free?
nope... |
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03/29/2010 08:23:31 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by PuppyDogMom:
I'm new...relatively. I do like this site. One day, likely I will enter a challenge (when I can figure out how). What's nice about this site compared to one that I did frequent is that the people here seem much nicer. You're a fun bunch. Other site? Somewhat condescending in attitude toward novice photographers.
For what it's worth... |
I agree with that, much friendly and eager to help when you ask.
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03/29/2010 08:24:53 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by SDW:
I was talking with the site about the DPL and hoping it would return but I guess they have stopped discussing the idea. I did have access to a thread of discussion about the dpl but it kept changing and would lock me out. So I don't know where that stands. |
Sooner than you think... ;-) |
Ooh!!! *little squeal* |
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03/29/2010 08:35:46 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Lonni:
Originally posted by scalvert:
[quote=SDW]I was talking with the site about the DPL and hoping it would return but I guess they have stopped discussing the idea. I did have access to a thread of discussion about the dpl but it kept changing and would lock me out. So I don't know where that stands. |
Sooner than you think... ;-) |
Took long enough... |
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03/29/2010 08:36:56 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Tez:
Also, the challenges suck. Plain and simple. DPC needs more expert challenges to attract the caliber of entrant that can push boundaries and i think relaxed rules on everything would make that happen. There are so many other sites where you can participate in forums with pictures, PSd to any degree and have discussions about it- DPC makes this ridiculous, not least because the submissions rules are rigid and crap... |
I actually applaud DPC's rules. I would love to see expert challenges every once in awhile, to see what people can do. But I love the fact that this is a photography site. I'm impressed with what people can do with photoshop, but I'm mostly interested in what I can do with my camera. It's nice from a learning perspective to realize that some of the impressive abstracts and other interesting shots are done basically with the camera and very little photoshopping. On other sites, it's not so clear-cut.
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03/29/2010 08:49:05 PM · #32 |
You're most interested in what YOU can do with your camera. Why does that have any bearing on DPC, or the rules here? You can look at expert editing, at composites and learn what to do with your camera, in ways you never thought possible, why restrict yourself to the belief that basic editing is showing you what to do with your camera? It doesn't, it just gives more limitations by allowing people to do less. And please don't cite the 'photoshop is not photography' defense.
When i just want to see what I can 'do with a camera' I shoot my Holga, or my Yashica, or my Pentax 35mm so I don't have the option of then being limited in photoshop or worrying that this adjustment layer is illegal.
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03/29/2010 08:55:16 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by Tez:
Also, the challenges suck. Plain and simple. DPC needs more expert challenges to attract the caliber of entrant that can push boundaries and i think relaxed rules on everything would make that happen. There are so many other sites where you can participate in forums with pictures, PSd to any degree and have discussions about it- DPC makes this ridiculous, not least because the submissions rules are rigid and crap... |
I actually applaud DPC's rules. I would love to see expert challenges every once in awhile, to see what people can do. But I love the fact that this is a photography site. I'm impressed with what people can do with photoshop, but I'm mostly interested in what I can do with my camera. It's nice from a learning perspective to realize that some of the impressive abstracts and other interesting shots are done basically with the camera and very little photoshopping. On other sites, it's not so clear-cut. |
Well said! Excellent perspective, which matches my opinion. |
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03/29/2010 09:08:55 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Aarthek:
Originally posted by SDW:
Anyone know why??? |
I find that interesting, though I have to say that I see a jump in 2010 even if it is a small one. |
Actually if you look at Jan-2010 vs. Jan-2009 there were less entries.
2010 2009 2008 2007
Jan 2227 2726 3484 4869
Feb 1847 2423 2710 3726
March -- 3505 2914 2979 Note: In Mach 2009 we had the 1000th challenge.
April -- 2599 3351 3210
May -- 1649 2257 4487
Jun -- 2245 2263 4000
July -- 2056 2834 2955
Aug -- 1934 2316 3771
Sept -- 2051 2338 2171
Oct -- 2036 2275 3260
Nov -- 1837 2188 2024
Dec -- 1713 2089 2185
If you compare month-to-month (2010 back to 2007) almost every month has seen a reduction in entries from year-to-year. |
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03/29/2010 09:10:07 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by SDW:
I was talking with the site about the DPL and hoping it would return but I guess they have stopped discussing the idea. I did have access to a thread of discussion about the dpl but it kept changing and would lock me out. So I don't know where that stands. |
Sooner than you think... ;-) |
Believe it when I see it. |
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03/29/2010 09:12:57 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by Tez:
Also, the challenges suck. Plain and simple. DPC needs more expert challenges to attract the caliber of entrant that can push boundaries and i think relaxed rules on everything would make that happen. There are so many other sites where you can participate in forums with pictures, PSd to any degree and have discussions about it- DPC makes this ridiculous, not least because the submissions rules are rigid and crap... |
I actually applaud DPC's rules. I would love to see expert challenges every once in awhile, to see what people can do. But I love the fact that this is a photography site. I'm impressed with what people can do with photoshop, but I'm mostly interested in what I can do with my camera. It's nice from a learning perspective to realize that some of the impressive abstracts and other interesting shots are done basically with the camera and very little photoshopping. On other sites, it's not so clear-cut. |
Well said! Excellent perspective, which matches my opinion. |
Me too! :-) |
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03/30/2010 10:02:16 AM · #37 |
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03/30/2010 10:20:26 AM · #38 |
wow, it sounds to me like all of you are basically just complaining because what appears on the front page isn't what appeals to you. I got one word for all of you: tough.
Deal with it, that's the nature of this site, I've, still-to-date have never achieved even a third place ribbon... but it's not stopping me, currently my photo is doing the best it ever has in any challenge. I'm stoked, and at times I'm quite dismayed by what makes it to the top, and indeed it can feel like a high school election, but I understand that means that I have to raise the bar and try some new things.
After reading some comments on this very thread I've found that there are people who are part of the DPC community but have no idea how to even upload a photograph to the site... this right here is a problem. It makes me wonder if there's some other DPC'ers who are getting their friends and family to join just so they can vote for their photo. Which might explain why sometimes (emphasis on the word 'sometimes') you have run-of-the-mill images making the front page.
Maybe they could simply change it so you just can't be part of the DPC community unless you submit, and would lose that place if you weren't active in 5 or 6 months. Just a thought. |
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03/30/2010 10:38:43 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Wildfire9:
wow, it sounds to me like all of you are basically just complaining because what appears on the front page isn't what appeals to you. I got one word for all of you: tough.
Deal with it, that's the nature of this site, I've, still-to-date have never achieved even a third place ribbon... but it's not stopping me, currently my photo is doing the best it ever has in any challenge. I'm stoked, and at times I'm quite dismayed by what makes it to the top, and indeed it can feel like a high school election, but I understand that means that I have to raise the bar and try some new things.
After reading some comments on this very thread I've found that there are people who are part of the DPC community but have no idea how to even upload a photograph to the site... this right here is a problem. It makes me wonder if there's some other DPC'ers who are getting their friends and family to join just so they can vote for their photo. Which might explain why sometimes (emphasis on the word 'sometimes') you have run-of-the-mill images making the front page.
Maybe they could simply change it so you just can't be part of the DPC community unless you submit, and would lose that place if you weren't active in 5 or 6 months. Just a thought. |
I like your enthusiasm for entering. It's something I'm trying to recapture, myself. But it isn't fair to point fingers at new users and claim illicit voting. The question of troll voting and evil voting and "whatever isn't your cup of tea voting" has been gone over plenty times. What it really boils down to, however, is people becoming complacent and uninterested in DPC as a whole. I'll admit, I've done that myself, and primarily take part in the forums these days trying to help out new people instead of doing everything the site offers. That's all good and dandy, but I should also be voting, commenting, and entering more, so I've endeavored to do that lately.
What I mean by all of this is that DPC is what we, as a collective, make of it. I know that a lot of people have been asking for improvements from Langdon, and have been disappointed by the lack thereof. Regardless of improvements, however, the fact remains that the best website in the world is nothing without quality members. I think we have some real quality members here, and it'd help everybody if we all tried to make things a little bit better.
I hear you on the inactive period. But if our issue is dealing with people who are becoming less active, how will kicking those borderline people off the boat accomplish anything?
The whole issue of decreasing activity is, quite honestly, horrendously complex I fear, but I still think that members are what make this site what it is and members are what can improve this site. Regardless of what Langdon does or does not do, many people flocked to DPC because of how available and supportive the forums and members in general were. What comprises this? The community. I'm not giving management the pass on issues that members have, but I'm also not abdicating my own, personal, responsibility in the whole matter. |
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03/30/2010 10:56:08 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by Wildfire9:
Maybe they could simply change it so you just can't be part of the DPC community unless you submit, and would lose that place if you weren't active in 5 or 6 months. Just a thought. |
I've often wondered how much "fixed" voting goes on, interesting idea..
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03/30/2010 12:19:32 PM · #41 |
| I stopped entering cause my membership ran out. I lost my job right when the economy tanked and just haven't renewed it yet. I have a hard time not being allowed to clone out imperfections so I almost never enter into basic editing challenges. To be honest I think I enjoyed the forums more than the challenges. |
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03/30/2010 01:25:53 PM · #42 |
I think DPC still has a LOT of potential to grow..
Like it or not but DPC is an ideal website for the growing photographer and we need to facilitate them to increase traffic
We need to make the equipment pages a lot more detailed and helpful. So many people come to DPC looking for help over new equipment or what lenses to buy. The User Rating needs to become functional because we have a wealth of knowledge (the participants) who week after week demonstrate their camera and photoshopping skills. To not somehow use their comments, suggestions and tips on equipment pages is so wrong. I would prefer each brand of lens, camera, filter, monopod to have their own liitle place so knowledge isn't cluttered about in the forums.
Same goes with Sports, Wedding, Street Photography etc.. We need information about them to be a lot more streamlined so they are useful to people not familiar with dpc.
Well, that covers my portion for newbies but what should be the changes for the pros? Regular master free studies with their own special ribbons? :P
Oh, and we NEED to have a makeover. I once heard that dpc looked like it was for old people. Not pros.. old. I prefer grey over anything else but we severely need to push things up.
/random rant over.
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03/30/2010 01:39:52 PM · #43 |
re: DPC being an ideal website for beginners.
There are many sites offering the same info- photo.net, Fred Miranda, Imaging Resource, Digital Photography School, Better Photo etc etc, the list goes on. DPC if anything makes it harder to find this info as you need to go into the forums and then trawl through debris to find the info you want.
I realize that first and foremost, this was about the challenges, and maybe not the training of beginners, but there are more and more sites out there offering more and more and leaving DPC in their dust as the challenge aspect is no longer unique here.
I said a long long time ago this place needs to get its forums sorted and basically make it like Fred Miranda's system, which in my eyes is the best forum around- in terms of content and organization. As for changes for pros? I'd be interested to find out how it came to pass that the old pros we had here (Larus, Heida, Librodo et al) all left and only sporadically return. If they're the people you want to attract, you need to find out what put them off. |
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03/30/2010 01:40:35 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
I think DPC still has a LOT of potential to grow..
Like it or not but DPC is an ideal website for the growing photographer and we need to facilitate them to increase traffic
We need to make the equipment pages a lot more detailed and helpful. So many people come to DPC looking for help over new equipment or what lenses to buy. The User Rating needs to become functional because we have a wealth of knowledge (the participants) who week after week demonstrate their camera and photoshopping skills. To not somehow use their comments, suggestions and tips on equipment pages is so wrong. I would prefer each brand of lens, camera, filter, monopod to have their own liitle place so knowledge isn't cluttered about in the forums.
Same goes with Sports, Wedding, Street Photography etc.. We need information about them to be a lot more streamlined so they are useful to people not familiar with dpc.
Well, that covers my portion for newbies but what should be the changes for the pros? Regular master free studies with their own special ribbons? :P
Oh, and we NEED to have a makeover. I once heard that dpc looked like it was for old people. Not pros.. old. I prefer grey over anything else but we severely need to push things up.
/random rant over. |
I can't agree with you more about the info on equipment. How many times have we seen it hashed up in the forums? What do you think of XXX lens? The only issue I have with implementing a straight review method is how worthless online reviews tend to be. They are so stupidly opinionated that any worth is deleted by the second line of text. I'm not trying to be argumentative; in fact, I want to discover a way that will work and not degrade into such madness. We do not and cannot tolerate super fanboy/fangirlism. It doesn't do good for our memebers and it isn't something that I think our body of members partakes in. But how do we legitimately avoid this?
I also agree that an additional wedding/sports/what have you would be a good idea. We see questions about that often enough to warrant it, and I'm really happy to see the recent tutorial style threads started for a variety of photography fields, but the fact remainds these questions boil up often enough to warrant something other than long-time members interest. |
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03/30/2010 02:09:35 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Tez:
As for changes for pros? I'd be interested to find out how it came to pass that the old pros we had here (Larus, Heida, Librodo et al) all left and only sporadically return. If they're the people you want to attract, you need to find out what put them off. |
I've always assumed they outgrew this website. The 'challenge' to be challenge winner probably ceases for them since they seem to hit the mark every single time and when you're winning challenges outside of the website with more than virtual ribbons then who can blame them
Whenever a Ribbon hoarding photographer wins a ribbon and their comments suggest the photo was taken for some shoot and they put the picture in the challenge as an afterthought you know their time here is coming to an end.
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03/30/2010 02:22:23 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Wildfire9:
Maybe they could simply change it so you just can't be part of the DPC community unless you submit, and would lose that place if you weren't active in 5 or 6 months. Just a thought. |
The option your suggesting would be the downfall of DPC. I haven't entered in a year, not because I don't want too, because I can't without a camera. Financial hardship has hit several people here but they still want to participate in other ways. How would I be able to post stats, FSM and more under that rule. :( LOL |
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03/30/2010 02:22:41 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
I can't agree with you more about the info on equipment. How many times have we seen it hashed up in the forums? What do you think of XXX lens? The only issue I have with implementing a straight review method is how worthless online reviews tend to be. They are so stupidly opinionated that any worth is deleted by the second line of text. I'm not trying to be argumentative; in fact, I want to discover a way that will work and not degrade into such madness. We do not and cannot tolerate super fanboy/fangirlism. It doesn't do good for our memebers and it isn't something that I think our body of members partakes in. But how do we legitimately avoid this?
I also agree that an additional wedding/sports/what have you would be a good idea. We see questions about that often enough to warrant it, and I'm really happy to see the recent tutorial style threads started for a variety of photography fields, but the fact remainds these questions boil up often enough to warrant something other than long-time members interest. |
I agree about the nonsense people can put up in straight forward reviews but I probably had more faith in our members when I was thinking about this. Right now I would probably faint if we ended up with even a star rating process or something.
Honestly DPL is the only thing I can think of that'll make old-timers stick around.
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03/30/2010 02:34:33 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
I agree about the nonsense people can put up in straight forward reviews but I probably had more faith in our members when I was thinking about this. Right now I would probably faint if we ended up with even a star rating process or something.
Honestly DPL is the only thing I can think of that'll make old-timers stick around. |
You know, when I think about it... there isn't a lot of difference, though, between what we currently have (do you like such and such lens) and a star rating category. Or at least an area where we could post an actual review? I guess everybody is going to provide the same experience regardless, and will be just as honest and straightforward. Implementation would be good in general, I feel. |
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03/30/2010 02:41:23 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
We need to make the equipment pages a lot more detailed and helpful. So many people come to DPC looking for help over new equipment or what lenses to buy. The User Rating needs to become functional because we have a wealth of knowledge (the participants) who week after week demonstrate their camera and photoshopping skills. To not somehow use their comments, suggestions and tips on equipment pages is so wrong. I would prefer each brand of lens, camera, filter, monopod to have their own liitle place so knowledge isn't cluttered about in the forums.
Oh, and we NEED to have a makeover. I once heard that dpc looked like it was for old people. Not pros.. old. I prefer grey over anything else but we severely need to push things up. |
Regarding this and other similar comments made in the course of this thread. My impression has been that this site is a part time labor of love for  Langdon. This would mean he just does not have the time or resources to implement all the great ideas. In order to accomplish such improvements, the reins would have to be given over to someone else, and that could change things in way that might be good or bad. I don't seen Langdon pop his head into the forums but ocassionally, however I would be surprised if he were not well aware of all the opinions. Just some observations and assumptions. |
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03/30/2010 10:00:23 PM · #50 |
A second chart that shows what was going on at the time of peak entries.
During the WPL and DPL that only lasted for 16 months, users submitted 61869 entries to challenges. To give you an idea how many entries that is, from the conception of the site till the WPL (4 years - 2 months) DPC only had 89750 entries.
I'm not saying the WPL and DPL had everything to do with the high amount of entries but I do feel it contributed to the escalating entries during that time. Which was good for the site.
Message edited by author 2010-03-30 22:22:26. |
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