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03/15/2010 06:25:57 AM · #1 |
| I Recently had a lot of (probly uneeded) work, including a new exhaust system, break pads, spark plugs etc.. But 1/10 times i try to start the car it struggles to start and doesnt run as smoothly. Soon as i restart - fine. The mechanic told me this is down to my battery needing replacing because its not giving out enough power. I dont have a clue. Does this sound right to anyone? The car is a 2003 2.2 Vauxhaul Omega, petrol auto. |
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03/15/2010 06:27:28 AM · #2 |
| Doesn't sound right to me, I don't know a lot about cars, but I'm pretty sure that once it's running the power comes from the alternator and not the battery, the battery's only there to get it going in the first place. Might be wrong though. |
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03/15/2010 06:46:24 AM · #3 |
Carbureted or injected? Was the fuel filter changed at the same time? Did the problem show up immediately after being worked on, or is this been getting worse gradually? How many miles/kms are on it? Does it have a distributor or crank-triggered ignition?
If it showed up soon after being worked upon, smart money goes toward rechecking the work that was done, i.e., checking for loose or cracked connections at the coils/distributor cap, spark plug boots at the plugs, cracked insulator on a plug....
Also, if the line wasn't routed correctly when the filter was changed and it's a soft rubber line, it could be kinked.....
Bear in mind this could be coincidental, but it's on you to figure out the time line so you can be as helpful as possible to get the issue resolved.
The symptomology seems to me from here like it's ignition/electrical related if you can shut it off, start it right back up and it's fine, and that will simply worsen over time.
ETA: I'd bet the farm it's not the battery......when the battery dies/is dying, it will exhibit signs of cranking slowly......anyone who works on cars should know that. If it's turning over normally, that's an unlikely possibility. Plus......if it did show up right after being worked on, how does one kill a battery by touching it in a manitenance manner. FWIW, if the battery is three and a half years old, or older, and you do live in an area where there is a definite delineation of seasons, i.e., freezing winters, hot summers, it's life expectancy is about there. That doesn't mean that it *will* die in a month, just if it does, it wouldn't be unreasonable.
ETA 2: All of my supposition is based on your telling me that it sounds like it's trying to start, but won't catch.......not that it's cranking slowly.....if the second is the case, then you must go down a different path......8>)
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 06:53:16.
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03/15/2010 06:54:15 AM · #4 |
| It was like that a few months before i got the work done, it passed its mot but i knew it wasnt right so i put it in for a full service and ended up spending over £600.. And the problem is still there. Im looking to sell the car in the next few weeks so im trying to iron out the problems, im not sure about any of those questions though sorry! |
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03/15/2010 06:58:28 AM · #5 |
| What do you mean by cranking slowly? It does start during one of the 1in10 times just takes longer too do so and doesnt sound quite right. Yeah we just got through the big freeze during which the battery died and the car needed a jump start. |
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03/15/2010 07:17:34 AM · #6 |
Have the battery tested at an autoparts store. They should be able to tell you if your battery is dead or about to go dead.
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03/15/2010 07:19:02 AM · #7 |
ETA. Double post.
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 07:22:09. |
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03/15/2010 07:19:44 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by JayA:
What do you mean by cranking slowly? It does start during one of the 1in10 times just takes longer too do so and doesnt sound quite right. Yeah we just got through the big freeze during which the battery died and the car needed a jump start. |
Cranking slowly+engine spinning over with the starter.......either.....
It doesn't turn over very quickly=low battery power to starter
Or....
It spins over fine, just doesn't "catch", fire over and run.
TYhe first scenario is indicative of battery/connectivity, the second, engine management, i.e. all the stuff I talked about in the last post.
Gotta go to work, I'll check back in.....(I have agreed with my boss to *NOT* peruse DPC whilst at work!), but feel free to e-mail me as I do check that regularly if I can be of help....NikonJeb@gmail.com
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03/15/2010 07:28:42 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by JayA:
What do you mean by cranking slowly? It does start during one of the 1in10 times just takes longer too do so and doesnt sound quite right. Yeah we just got through the big freeze during which the battery died and the car needed a jump start. |
Cranking slowly+engine spinning over with the starter.......either.....
It doesn't turn over very quickly=low battery power to starter
Or....
It spins over fine, just doesn't "catch", fire over and run.
TYhe first scenario is indicative of battery/connectivity, the second, engine management, i.e. all the stuff I talked about in the last post.
Gotta go to work, I'll check back in.....(I have agreed with my boss to *NOT* peruse DPC whilst at work!), but feel free to e-mail me as I do check that regularly if I can be of help....NikonJeb@gmail.com |
Thanks Jeb, i wouldnt know where to start with cars and cant trust mechanics. The place i got all the work done did do a test on the battery and told me its putting out low power and that was the problem, Id think he would say anything to get more work though.. thats why i was checking here first.
Also another thing i should mention is that when the problem occurs, a light comes on in the dashboard, Its a car with a spanner through it.. The manual says something about "exhaust emissions" but the garage said it was the battery problem.. |
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03/15/2010 11:52:21 AM · #10 |
Sounds like a computer issue to me.
When you cycle the power it "resets" the computer, and runs fine.. Could you possibly find a totaled vehicle of the exact same model? If so, see if you can cheaply buy (or maybe try!!) the computer from that vehicle..
(The computer is usually in a front kick-panel or under one of the front floors (usually passenger side)). |
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03/15/2010 12:02:51 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by JayA:
Also another thing i should mention is that when the problem occurs, a light comes on in the dashboard, Its a car with a spanner through it.. The manual says something about "exhaust emissions" but the garage said it was the battery problem.. |
The car has an engine management problem. That's what the wrench light is.....generally a yellow light.
The battery light will usually be red, and have a rectangle with a "+" or "-" sign in it, or even the abbreviation "CHG".
I would definitely consider a "second opinion". |
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03/15/2010 12:03:20 PM · #12 |
If it usually cranks slowly the first try in the morning, then it could be the battery or a bad terminal connection in the battery cables. If it cranks fine the first time of the day, and then cranking is sluggish when the motor is fully warmed up, then it could be the starter getting worn out. A tired starter can put a huge load on the battery, causing voltage sags and spikes that are tough on the electronics. If the alternator is ok, and the battery tired, then the first start in the morning will usually be sluggish, with subsequent starts being just fine.
I would take it to another shop and have a computer scan done. That may reveal the problem. Here in the States, many parts places will scan the system for free.
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03/15/2010 12:06:18 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Sounds like a computer issue to me.
When you cycle the power it "resets" the computer, and runs fine.. Could you possibly find a totaled vehicle of the exact same model? If so, see if you can cheaply buy (or maybe try!!) the computer from that vehicle..
(The computer is usually in a front kick-panel or under one of the front floors (usually passenger side)). |
Buying used engine management computers is generally a *really* bad idea unless you're a trained, competent professional and have a very good working relationship with the salvage facility due to high mortality rates. |
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03/15/2010 12:06:40 PM · #14 |
| If you can take it to a place that sells batteries they will usually run some tests on the battery and can tell you if it is good or bad. If you are getting an error code have the code read, it can be a bad sensor that gives readings that will make the computer make bad adjustments. I had a coolant sensor go bad once and the engine would not adjust for the cold making it hard to start in cold weather but it would run fine after it warmed up, mechanic read the code replaced the sensor and it ran and started fine after that. Recommend finding a good shop, it can save you lots of guessing and needless expense. |
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03/15/2010 02:32:48 PM · #15 |
| In a recent discussion on Car Talk regarding a somewhat similar-sounding problem, they seemed to think the most likely source was dampness in the spark-plug wires, especially if, when they changed the plugs and did that other stuff, they didn't change the wires at the same time. This would also be consistent with it being worse in cold/damp weather. You can probably do some more research, or ask for opinions from "car people" (like the 49 mechanics currently on-line) at that website. The radio show is both informative and funny ... |
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03/15/2010 03:32:11 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
In a recent discussion on Car Talk regarding a somewhat similar-sounding problem, they seemed to think the most likely source was dampness in the spark-plug wires, especially if, when they changed the plugs and did that other stuff, they didn't change the wires at the same time. This would also be consistent with it being worse in cold/damp weather. You can probably do some more research, or ask for opinions from "car people" (like the 49 mechanics currently on-line) at that website. The radio show is both informative and funny ... |
It'd be *really* cool if we could ascertain whether it cranks slowly, or if it cranks fine, but is recalcitrant about firing off.
Also, the light with the wrench is inconsistent with a battery issue, but definitely consistent with engine electronics.
Problem is......all the computer engine management in the world won't do anything for a cracked insulator in a brand new spark plug.....8>) |
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03/15/2010 03:47:36 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
In a recent discussion on Car Talk regarding a somewhat similar-sounding problem, they seemed to think the most likely source was dampness in the spark-plug wires, especially if, when they changed the plugs and did that other stuff, they didn't change the wires at the same time. This would also be consistent with it being worse in cold/damp weather. You can probably do some more research, or ask for opinions from "car people" (like the 49 mechanics currently on-line) at that website. The radio show is both informative and funny ... |
I just noticed the 49 mechanics thing is an ad -- don't know if it's free ... :-(
However, they do have regular user forums too ... :-) |
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03/15/2010 03:49:31 PM · #18 |
| Did you have the catalytic converter replaced when you had all the exhaust work done? A plugged converter can cause starting and running issues. Not sure if those are required in the UK but if so a easy test is while the vehicle is running check the exhaust output. If it's plugged there won't be much coming out... |
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03/15/2010 03:52:07 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by JayA:
I Recently had a lot of (probly uneeded) work, including a new exhaust system, break pads, spark plugs etc.. But 1/10 times i try to start the car it struggles to start and doesnt run as smoothly. Soon as i restart - fine. The mechanic told me this is down to my battery needing replacing because its not giving out enough power. I dont have a clue. Does this sound right to anyone? The car is a 2003 2.2 Vauxhaul Omega, petrol auto. |
You may have mentioned the mileage, I could have missed it?? What is current mileage? |
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03/15/2010 07:29:57 PM · #20 |
| I dont think it is the battery either, its booked in for a battery test on Wednesday The millage is around 50 000. |
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03/15/2010 08:05:51 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by JayA:
I Recently had a lot of (probly uneeded) work, including a new exhaust system, break pads, spark plugs etc.. But 1/10 times i try to start the car it struggles to start and doesnt run as smoothly. Soon as i restart - fine. The mechanic told me this is down to my battery needing replacing because its not giving out enough power. I dont have a clue. Does this sound right to anyone? The car is a 2003 2.2 Vauxhaul Omega, petrol auto. |
Your mechanic don't know what he is talking about. You may well have a weak battery but if your car starts and runs well nine out of ten tries it ain't the battery. As others have already said, you may have a loose connection somewhere (spark plug wire, any one of a number of other wires he might have loosened, if it is computer controlled there may be a problem there.....fuel delivery, etc.
Intermittent problems you have described are sometimes hard to locate. You have already spent more than I would on a car I was selling so be careful spending too much more. If you want, put a new battery in her and when the problem isn't fixed, take her back to the mechanic and get him to fix what he screwed up. It didn't have this problem before did it? If it did, why didn't he fix it before he let you leave with it?
Good luck mate.
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 20:06:37. |
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03/16/2010 05:53:15 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by JayA:
I dont think it is the battery either, its booked in for a battery test on Wednesday The millage is around 50 000. |
Okay, I had a Vectra that had only done 50K+ at 9 years old, it threw a cam belt and I got hit by a £1300 repair bill. The next year it started doing just what your Omega is doing, it was EM computer(engine management). One day it would run as sweet as a nut, next day, it chugged. Got rid of it!
My son had a 5 year old Vectra 2.5 at the same time, same mileage and same problems. That was why, much as I regret having to, I got a Ford. Although, I am tempted to get a Zafira SRI:))
Message edited by author 2010-03-16 17:53:38. |
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03/16/2010 05:54:28 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Originally posted by JayA:
I dont think it is the battery either, its booked in for a battery test on Wednesday The millage is around 50 000. |
Okay, I had a Vectra that had only done 50K+ at 9 years old, it threw a cam belt and I got hit by a £1300 repair bill. The next year it started doing just what your Omega is doing, it was EM computer(engine management). One day it would run as sweet as a nut, next day, it chugged. Got rid of it!
My son had a 5 year old Vectra 2.5 at the same time, same mileage and same problems. That was why, much as I regret having to, I got a Ford. Although, I am tempted to get a Zafira SRI:)) |
Did you get the Vectra repaired? Its up for sale now anyway. |
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03/16/2010 05:56:25 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by JayA:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Originally posted by JayA:
I dont think it is the battery either, its booked in for a battery test on Wednesday The millage is around 50 000. |
Okay, I had a Vectra that had only done 50K+ at 9 years old, it threw a cam belt and I got hit by a £1300 repair bill. The next year it started doing just what your Omega is doing, it was EM computer(engine management). One day it would run as sweet as a nut, next day, it chugged. Got rid of it!
My son had a 5 year old Vectra 2.5 at the same time, same mileage and same problems. That was why, much as I regret having to, I got a Ford. Although, I am tempted to get a Zafira SRI:)) |
Did you get the Vectra repaired? Its up for sale now anyway. |
Nope, I wasn't prepared to chuck more money at it as it was only worth £600. Took £300 from an Ebay buyer and cut my loses. My son traded his one in for a Ford C-Max.
Message edited by author 2010-03-16 17:56:38. |
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03/16/2010 05:58:58 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Originally posted by JayA:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Originally posted by JayA:
I dont think it is the battery either, its booked in for a battery test on Wednesday The millage is around 50 000. |
Okay, I had a Vectra that had only done 50K+ at 9 years old, it threw a cam belt and I got hit by a £1300 repair bill. The next year it started doing just what your Omega is doing, it was EM computer(engine management). One day it would run as sweet as a nut, next day, it chugged. Got rid of it!
My son had a 5 year old Vectra 2.5 at the same time, same mileage and same problems. That was why, much as I regret having to, I got a Ford. Although, I am tempted to get a Zafira SRI:)) |
Did you get the Vectra repaired? Its up for sale now anyway. |
Nope, I wasn't prepared to chuck more money at it as it was only worth £600. Took £300 from an Ebay buyer and cut my loses. My son traded his one in for a Ford C-Max. |
Hmm thing is i've got mine up for sale for £2295 |
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