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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> national ad campaign
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02/19/2010 11:23:22 PM · #1
A musician friend of mine has lined me up to shoot him and his instrument for a chain of music stores, the photo/s will be used for a national print ad campaign (!!!!) I'm very excited, this is the first time I've done something like this. I'll be discussing the details with the CEO of the music chain on Monday... How do I determine what to charge? Thanks in advance for any insight!!
02/19/2010 11:30:27 PM · #2
Congrats! That is awesome!
02/19/2010 11:31:53 PM · #3
I can't help with the question, but congrats on getting the gig!
02/20/2010 12:23:14 AM · #4
Thank you both! I'm kinda freaking out about it, but I sure am happy he took such a liking to my work - he's become my biggest champion lately! I already know he's a great subject, easy as pie to shoot well - so that's in the bag! I'm just worried about the business side of it!
02/20/2010 12:41:22 AM · #5
Consider checking out these search results.
You can also refer to Alamy. You can search for a photo that is similar to what you're expected to shoot and check out the pricing estimate that they provide, given the circulation and nature of the usage. But remember, prices will vary geographically because the market bears different burdens in different areas, so don't take it as an absolute, just a reference.
02/20/2010 12:42:21 AM · #6
I wrote an article about creating proposals on here a while back.

First, ask what budget they have in mind for the shoot, see what they have set aside for marketing this year, this quarter, this month, etc. At least then you know what you have to play with.

Also, make sure you get your usage rights in order- ask where, how big and for how long this ad will appear. Factor this into your fee.

Ensure that you retain the copyright, that said firm will not license the pictures to a 3rd party and you retain the right to use any and all works for portfolio and promotions purposes.
02/20/2010 01:26:44 AM · #7
Thank you very much - I see I've got plenty of reading to do this weekend. I can also see that the most important thing will be getting specific details from them on Monday from which to build a proposal.

Thanks again!

Message edited by author 2010-02-20 01:26:55.
02/22/2010 03:29:17 PM · #8
good luck, andi!

the main thing is not to think of what you're doing as being a commodity that is priced solely on the lowest hourly rate you could charge to physically be shooting. you have to step back and consider all the ways you fit into the big picture. this is where you get paid for the relationship you've built, your experience, your vision, and your ability to execute. stuff like this is a lot bigger than a corporate event that pays a low-end hourly rate...
02/22/2010 05:24:38 PM · #9
Thank you all for your insight. I spoke to the CEO today. They plan to use 1 or 2 shots for two years in their catalogs and on their website, and he agreed that I will be given photo credit - but this will be a work for hire agreement, which means they'll own the images from the shoot outright. They can do anything they want with them, including licensing to a third party, etc etc. I'm okay with that, assuming the fee is appropriate, because of the exposure, contacts, experience, etc. But determining a dollar figure is the tough part. I'm trying to find some "standard" rates for this kind of thing now...
02/22/2010 06:00:45 PM · #10
'work for hire' means you get screwed. I'll send you a PM later when I have my references to hand but you can avoid them.

Are you being hired as a company, or as an individual? So is he hiring "Ahaze photography" or are they hiring "Ahaze to take some pictures"? There is a reason I'm asking.

A photo credit is practically meaningless. It's part & parcel to have one, but when people use it as a bargaining chip it's laughable. It doesn't pay the rent to have your name attached to something.

and you're OK with them licensing to a third party? Do you know what that means? That means your photos can be used by this firm as stock to be sold to other companies for rates they set- so you could shoot something/someone, get paid $400 for the shoot, hand over the rights and then they can license it for $4,000 for someone else to use for 1 year. Avoid this. Have it removed from the contract because you're going to get screwed. Your work should NEVER BE LICENSED by anyone other than yourself.

Then again, if they are offering a great price for it, then go for it. But have a look at getty.com and their usage rates, you'll find that a simple picture of a doctor or something generic is anywhere from $200-$6,000 depending on what they want it for. This is PER YEAR. If you want to buy an imaghe from getty, corbis, AP or anyone else, be prepared to pay $100k easy. As once you own the picture, you can sell the picture.

And what contacts do you think you'll make? What exposure? Is it the right exposure? Will people know that they can pay you to shoot, then have their own stock portfolio to license themselves? If that's the case, I'll pay you right now to do a shoot for me, and then I'll reap the benefits of an image for years to come. Just as they will.

Seriously, it sounds like I'm ranting, but when a client says they want the ability to license them to a third party, I either walk out the door or ask them what figure they had in mind for this, then I tell them that if this was an ad agency they'd pay year upon year upon year for the usage rights. I don't mind including 12 months usage in the shoot package from the start, but I know a barrel when i see one. Maybe they don't realise what it means, or what the extent of their power would be.

They will tell you that you wouldn't have the shots without them... that's true, but unless they're paying me enough that I don't hate myself, I wouldn't do this job with the stipulations they attach to it. I retain the rights. Nobody can license them but me, and they pay fair.

If they say "we have other photographers who will do this" the chances are that they're some Craigslist kid who likes the idea of being paid $500 to shoot, but doesn't realize that the pictures will earn that every year on a stock agency.

As for standard rates- these are personal. I did a portrait for a corporate client last week. I charged $440 for this shoot. It included 1.5 hrs shooting, equipment rental, DVDR delivery (I drove down there and gave it to them), transport to and from shoot and parking.

See here:

//tezmphoto.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/how-to-write-an-estimate-proposal/

It may give you some knowledge, or at least a framework.
02/23/2010 04:15:39 AM · #11
good advice, good stuff! thanks for sharing.
Originally posted by Tez:

//tezmphoto.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/how-to-write-an-estimate-proposal/
02/23/2010 12:43:57 PM · #12
Thank you very much, you gave me some specifics that I hadn't considered. I emailed the guy with an exclusive license agreement that is for the specific amount of time and uses he wanted, isn't sub-licensable or assignable, allows me to use them in my portfolio, etc - we'll see what he comes back with. Thanks again for setting me straight!!
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