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10/27/2010 05:53:42 PM · #1126 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Thank you Paul for the recognition and your generous comment, the image is a personal favorite of mine. I quite enjoyed the 64 one and two votes. 64 missed opportunities to explore an image. |
Balderdash... I took the time to look at this image, studied it objectively, considered the various facets and strived to find a concept... alas I was left with a less than favourable impression and scored it a 2.
Contrary to your supposition, I did not miss the opportunity to explore this image...and sometimes, like when one wanders on a strange river, one encounters a precipice, and in this instance that was the scores meted out by some.
You and some others may not like it, but my vote is just as valid as the higher votes gleaned in this challenge...it just occupies a different range in the scale.
Ray
Message edited by author 2010-10-27 17:54:33. |
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10/27/2010 06:10:42 PM · #1127 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Thank you Paul for the recognition and your generous comment, the image is a personal favorite of mine. I quite enjoyed the 64 one and two votes. 64 missed opportunities to explore an image. |
Balderdash... I took the time to look at this image, studied it objectively, considered the various facets and strived to find a concept... alas I was left with a less than favourable impression and scored it a 2.
Contrary to your supposition, I did not miss the opportunity to explore this image...and sometimes, like when one wanders on a strange river, one encounters a precipice, and in this instance that was the scores meted out by some.
You and some others may not like it, but my vote is just as valid as the higher votes gleaned in this challenge...it just occupies a different range in the scale.
Ray |
I have no problems with your vote. I know very well that you were not the only one to stop, look, wander, and leave unimpressed, moved, etc. Keep in mind I made no mention of a vote not being valid. Just an off the cuff observation; generalizations are never accurate. If I had a problem receiving low scores I wouldn't enter images that I know will get killed in voting. |
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10/27/2010 07:43:03 PM · #1128 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Pictures of guitars (etc) are not about sound; they are about guitars.
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So well said. The pictures that required (and rewarded) close listening were, ironically, the ones that scored most poorly. Congrats to the few who were able to listen with their eyes. |
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10/27/2010 08:44:43 PM · #1129 |
I could be wrong but...from what i've noticed here, most of the top choices are the "more abstract" photos that had pretty low scores. So..if everyone here like them so much, how come they end up scoring so low? Just a thought. I'm not a big fan of abstract myself, unless if it really stands out to me and meets the challenge. So probably people like me is what brought the scores down. However, it seems that a lot of you like them, and yet most of the time they end up somewhere in the bottom.
Also since abstract is such a "love it or hate it" idea, how come people still do it when it seems that most winners are the ones with super clear, sharp images? Was there ever a challenge where an abstract photo won, where the challenge was not "abstract"? |
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10/27/2010 09:00:32 PM · #1130 |
Originally posted by violici:
I could be wrong but...from what i've noticed here, most of the top choices are the "more abstract" photos that had pretty low scores. So..if everyone here like them so much, how come they end up scoring so low? Just a thought. I'm not a big fan of abstract myself, unless if it really stands out to me and meets the challenge. So probably people like me is what brought the scores down. However, it seems that a lot of you like them, and yet most of the time they end up somewhere in the bottom.
Also since abstract is such a "love it or hate it" idea, how come people still do it when it seems that most winners are the ones with super clear, sharp images? Was there ever a challenge where an abstract photo won, where the challenge was not "abstract"? |
I don't think you've got a good sense of "a lot." |
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10/27/2010 09:04:34 PM · #1131 |
skimpin' on the ribbons this week...
body forms
 to  by  whiteroom
 to  by  herfotoman
sounds
to  by  2mccs
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10/27/2010 09:42:22 PM · #1132 |
| Thanks so much Don. That is a big honor to get one of your ribbons. |
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10/27/2010 10:30:26 PM · #1133 |
Originally posted by violici:
Also since abstract is such a "love it or hate it" idea, how come people still do it when it seems that most winners are the ones with super clear, sharp images? Was there ever a challenge where an abstract photo won, where the challenge was not "abstract"? |
People do it because they love to and wish to share their vision with others who also might appreciate it. Plus variety is the spice of life:-)
As to other challenges where an abstract won a ribbon - Yes there have been some.
Free Study 2010-02 Yellow Ribbon awarded to Ursula for Yin Yang
Shadows VI Yellow Ribbon awarded to Bear-Music for Dune Fence, Lighthouse Beach
Zen Photography III Red Ribbon awarded to Scalvert for Riverdance
Orange II Red Ribbon awarded to Ja-9 for Orange Creamsicle
Missed Focus II Red Ribbon awarded to nshapiro for Sunpressions
I am sure that there are others that would easily fall into the Abstract or Minimalist category.
Message edited by author 2010-10-27 22:46:48. |
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10/27/2010 10:41:31 PM · #1134 |
  Ursula
And in a Free Study, no less! |
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10/27/2010 10:45:53 PM · #1135 |
Originally posted by violici:
how come people still do it when it seems that most winners are the ones with super clear, sharp images? |
Because the final score is a measure only of mass appeal. It is often more satisfying to have a low or medium averaging entry that strongly appeals to a narrow group. I have quite a few of those that I consider greater successes than higher scoring entries because they nailed great comments and a few faves from the folks that saw what I did in it.
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10/28/2010 01:10:03 AM · #1136 |
Originally posted by CNovack:
Originally posted by violici:
Also since abstract is such a "love it or hate it" idea, how come people still do it when it seems that most winners are the ones with super clear, sharp images? Was there ever a challenge where an abstract photo won, where the challenge was not "abstract"? |
People do it because they love to and wish to share their vision with others who also might appreciate it. Plus variety is the spice of life:-)
As to other challenges where an abstract won a ribbon - Yes there have been some.
Free Study 2010-02 Yellow Ribbon awarded to Ursula for Yin Yang
Shadows VI Yellow Ribbon awarded to Bear-Music for Dune Fence, Lighthouse Beach
Zen Photography III Red Ribbon awarded to Scalvert for Riverdance
Orange II Red Ribbon awarded to Ja-9 for Orange Creamsicle
Missed Focus II Red Ribbon awarded to nshapiro for Sunpressions
I am sure that there are others that would easily fall into the Abstract or Minimalist category. |
The categories you described above "shadows, missed focus...etc" are subjects where abstract make sense. But for the past challenges, the people that won were those with very sharp images. I've looked. And I do understand that people will post whatever type photos they like, and I'm not against that myself. But if it is a challenge, that means one would like to win a ribbon, no? Otherwise, what is the point of entering a challenge at all if the abstract photos keep getting low scores? I'm only saying this because I have checked, and most of the time it is true. I was curious on what the majority would vote highest on, and lowest.
I'm just saying, if we're doing this for ribbons, then we most likely know what kind of photos we should take, right? But it doesn't seem like everyone is doing it to win, they just want their idea out there, which is cool, it's just something I found interesting I guess. Hope I didn't upset anyone. |
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10/28/2010 01:14:10 AM · #1137 |
Originally posted by violici:
I'm just saying, if we're doing this for ribbons, then we most likely know what kind of photos we should take, right? But it doesn't seem like everyone is doing it to win, they just want their idea out there, which is cool, it's just something I found interesting I guess. Hope I didn't upset anyone. |
You may have answered your own question. Not every one enters to win a ribbon. After all, they only give out three. And not everyone can take/make the kind of picture that wins here. You'd think it should be easy, but for a lot of us it is not. So either we don't enter at all, or we do our best and enter what we enjoy. |
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10/28/2010 01:23:03 AM · #1138 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by violici:
how come people still do it when it seems that most winners are the ones with super clear, sharp images? |
Because the final score is a measure only of mass appeal. It is often more satisfying to have a low or medium averaging entry that strongly appeals to a narrow group. I have quite a few of those that I consider greater successes than higher scoring entries because they nailed great comments and a few faves from the folks that saw what I did in it. |
Ok, and I completely understand that. However...if only a few people can appreciate and see what you see in the certain photo, why is that more satisfying then taking a photo that the majority goes "wow", and obviously if you get a ribbon that means the majority liked it. In the real work, if you work as a photographer for .. say..a magazine, wouldn't you have to take photos that the majority find appealing rather then just a few? |
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10/28/2010 01:26:15 AM · #1139 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Ursula
And in a Free Study, no less! |
That is a wonderful "abstract" photo, if it's considered abstract. i don't know much about photography, but i always figured "abstract" is something where you have no idea what's going on in the photo, where this one looks like water waves, wonderfully done. However, the two before this one and the many after it, in the top 10..or 15, are not abstract. So the chances of an abstract photo winning I believe to be much less then others. |
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10/28/2010 01:41:01 AM · #1140 |
Originally posted by violici:
i don't know much about photography, but i always figured "abstract" is something where you have no idea what's going on in the photo, where this one looks like water waves, wonderfully done. |
I think it might help if you realise that of the images celebrated in this thread, even by the eponymous posthumous, most are not abstract. What they do tend to be is less obvious, less explicit, which is not the same thing as abstract. They nearly always reflect different, more adventurous (and so less 'safe') thinking on the part of the photographer. And thus they require some spirit of adventure from the viewer/voter. Naturally this results in low scores overall for those images, but if you look at the distribution of votes for those images (the voting histogram) you will see how it all works out to everyone's satisfaction.
Edit to add: The opposite case is also true. Lots of 'real' ribbon winning images have post challenge comments expressing amazement and indignation (sometimes forcefully) that anyone could have given this image a low score. Yet I nearly always score the ribbon winners very low, for the reverse of the reasoning explained above (i.e. too obvious, too explicit, too safe, etc). It's just a reflection of what different people are looking for in a photograph.
Message edited by author 2010-10-28 02:04:43. |
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10/28/2010 02:06:09 AM · #1141 |
| All right, thank you all for clarifying some things for me. Now I understand and it's nice to know other people's idea and perspectives on things that I probably just see as black and white. |
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10/28/2010 02:10:41 AM · #1142 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by violici:
i don't know much about photography, but i always figured "abstract" is something where you have no idea what's going on in the photo, where this one looks like water waves, wonderfully done. |
I think it might help if you realise that of the images celebrated in this thread, even by the eponymous posthumous, most are not abstract. What they do tend to be is less obvious, less explicit, which is not the same thing as abstract. They nearly always reflect different, more adventurous (and so less 'safe') thinking on the part of the photographer. And thus they require some spirit of adventure from the viewer/voter. Naturally this results in low scores overall for those images, but if you look at the distribution of votes for those images (the voting histogram) you will see how it all works out to everyone's satisfaction.
Edit to add: The opposite case is also true. Lots of 'real' ribbon winning images have post challenge comments expressing amazement and indignation (sometimes forcefully) that anyone could have given this image a low score. Yet I nearly always score the ribbon winners very low, for the reverse of the reasoning explained above (i.e. too obvious, too explicit, too safe, etc). It's just a reflection of what different people are looking for in a photograph. |
Now I understand why the ribbon winners have some low scores while the furthest from the ribbon have high scores. I thought it was a conspiracy theory, but it's all about perspective. I still think the majority of winners are the more "clear, crisp" images taken with a very nice camera, but...maybe more people like the obvious then the hidden. |
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10/28/2010 02:16:52 AM · #1143 |
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10/28/2010 02:21:18 AM · #1144 |
Originally posted by violici:
Now I understand why the ribbon winners have some low scores while the furthest from the ribbon have high scores. I thought it was a conspiracy theory, but it's all about perspective. I still think the majority of winners are the more "clear, crisp" images taken with a very nice camera, but...maybe more people like the obvious then the hidden. |
I like your attitude! Thanks. This might give some insight into how to approach the unfamiliar. Hope to see your work appearing in this thread sometime soon! |
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10/28/2010 02:55:47 AM · #1145 |
Sooooo..... how about challenging each side of the spectrum: have a side challenge for sharp or colourful abstracts?:D I know that I have a couple to submit!
The good Mr Yo_Spiff stated my own position exactly.
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10/28/2010 03:13:00 AM · #1146 |
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10/28/2010 09:20:52 AM · #1147 |
Originally posted by violici:
if only a few people can appreciate and see what you see in the certain photo, why is that more satisfying then taking a photo that the majority goes "wow", and obviously if you get a ribbon that means the majority liked it. In the real work, if you work as a photographer for .. say..a magazine, wouldn't you have to take photos that the majority find appealing rather then just a few? |
Several reasons, I think.
-Once an individual learns how to take those sharp, mass appeal shots, they often want to stretch and try to do something different. If you can achieve mass appeal with it, so much the better, but people like to try new things and it is sometimes fun to try a riskier shot. I know a number of members who have proven their chops here and snagged a few ribbons, then their averages tanked when they started coloring outside the lines and doing what appealed to them personally. On a related note, I just looked over my ribbons and top 5, and only a couple of those are among my personal favorites from my own work.
-As far as a magazine goes, I see a lot of examples in some of the photography mags, as well as National Geographic, that would probably come in as "meh" shots on DPC. But they illustrate their subject appropriately for the purpose. Not all shots are fine art, nor do they need to be.
-Consider that you have prints for sale in a gallery, would it be better for everyone to agree they are good and move on, or to appeal more strongly to a handful of people, who love it enough to buy it for their homes?
-A professional photographer does not always have to have broad appeal. They only have to have appeal to the person that is paying for their work.
Message edited by author 2010-10-28 09:24:04.
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10/28/2010 09:54:14 AM · #1148 |
Originally posted by briantammy:
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Thank you! |
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10/28/2010 11:36:13 AM · #1149 |
Wow, just noticed my work was mentioned, what an honor! :)
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10/28/2010 11:37:29 AM · #1150 |
Thinking over all the things I wanted to say in response to comments on this thread, I fell asleep. In the end, I think it is much more important for me to know & understand what I stand for than it is for me to try to explain it for others to understand. Besides, I don't seem to be able to stay awake long enough to write it all down.
Abstractions are not for everyone. If my work was for sale in a gallery, I would rather have a buyer who wants it for reasons they can't explain than I would a buyer who wants it because it's the perfect size & color to hang over the sofa. If my work was for sale in a gallery, I wouldn't really have any choice in the matter, but still, that's the kind of client I would prefer.
Of course, the most difficult client to satisfy, the most demanding, the most elusve, is always Me.
Check this out.
Message edited by author 2010-10-28 11:40:52. |
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