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02/11/2010 07:52:02 AM · #1 |
I'm always browsing the web for tips and tricks on photography, and I keep coming across the same thing over and over again, "get your camera out of auto mode and use manual, it will make you so much better", I have to disagree.
My camera spends it's life in either aperture priority or shutter priority, I think I've used manual mode about twice since getting my D700. I paid a lot of money for a camera because it can do clever things like meter the light for me, calculate fill flash etc, and I just don't understand why when the camera does such a good job of those things that you would want to use manual and have to do it all yourself. I mean, I'm sure it's a great learning experience, but I would say that's about it.
If I need brighter or darker pictures, I change my exposure comp, set the aperture (or shutter) and let the camera worry about the rest, and in general, I think it does a very good job.
So, tell me why manual mode is such a wonderful thing, because honestly, I just don't get it! |
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02/11/2010 08:01:46 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity:
I'm always browsing the web for tips and tricks on photography, and I keep coming across the same thing over and over again, "get your camera out of auto mode and use manual, it will make you so much better", I have to disagree.
My camera spends it's life in either aperture priority or shutter priority, I think I've used manual mode about twice since getting my D700. I paid a lot of money for a camera because it can do clever things like meter the light for me, calculate fill flash etc, and I just don't understand why when the camera does such a good job of those things that you would want to use manual and have to do it all yourself. I mean, I'm sure it's a great learning experience, but I would say that's about it.
If I need brighter or darker pictures, I change my exposure comp, set the aperture (or shutter) and let the camera worry about the rest, and in general, I think it does a very good job.
So, tell me why manual mode is such a wonderful thing, because honestly, I just don't get it! |
I use my camera like you do most of the time. In fact often in "P". I still leaves me with all kinds of 'manual' control. But when shooting with studio lights it's a must with manual mode since auto simply doesn't work (I'm sure there are exceptions to this; but none that are practical for me). |
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02/11/2010 08:04:50 AM · #3 |
When I bought my first dslr I used it extensively in manual mode and the reason is that it taught me more about how the camera worked. I learned how aperature, shutter speed, iso and exposure worked together. I learned what I needed to do to compensate for low light, bright light, back light and how to get the DoF I wanted. Now I mostly work in aperature or shutter priority.
I think it is a great learning tool for those who use to rely completely on auto mode. |
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02/11/2010 08:08:59 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity:
I'm always browsing the web for tips and tricks on photography, and I keep coming across the same thing over and over again, "get your camera out of auto mode and use manual, it will make you so much better", I have to disagree.
My camera spends it's life in either aperture priority or shutter priority, I think I've used manual mode about twice since getting my D700. I paid a lot of money for a camera because it can do clever things like meter the light for me, calculate fill flash etc, and I just don't understand why when the camera does such a good job of those things that you would want to use manual and have to do it all yourself. I mean, I'm sure it's a great learning experience, but I would say that's about it.
If I need brighter or darker pictures, I change my exposure comp, set the aperture (or shutter) and let the camera worry about the rest, and in general, I think it does a very good job.
So, tell me why manual mode is such a wonderful thing, because honestly, I just don't get it! |
It is a lot easier to use the camera in Av or Tv mode and most of us do. The reason for shooting in M mode is two-fold. 1)As you said a great learning experience and 2) once you have learned how to shoot in M mode you control the camera instead of the camera controlling you. There are some shots that need to push the camera to its very limits and only M mode can do that. |
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02/11/2010 08:22:42 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by jminso:
When I bought my first dslr I used it extensively in manual mode and the reason is that it taught me more about how the camera worked. I learned how aperature, shutter speed, iso and exposure worked together. I learned what I needed to do to compensate for low light, bright light, back light and how to get the DoF I wanted. Now I mostly work in aperature or shutter priority.
I think it is a great learning tool for those who use to rely completely on auto mode. |
exactly.
Its great for learning. |
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02/11/2010 08:23:38 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by jminso:
When I bought my first dslr I used it extensively in manual mode and the reason is that it taught me more about how the camera worked. I learned how aperature, shutter speed, iso and exposure worked together. I learned what I needed to do to compensate for low light, bright light, back light and how to get the DoF I wanted. Now I mostly work in aperature or shutter priority.
I think it is a great learning tool for those who use to rely completely on auto mode. |
That's where I am right now. I use Manual almost exclusively. When I get better and learn then I might use the other settings and I will know if the camera is doing what I want it to do. I have learned so much just by shooting something, tweaking the Manual settings and shooting it again. |
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02/11/2010 08:36:26 AM · #7 |
The only time I use manual mode is whenever I do anything related to off camera flash. My triggers are very cheap, so no TTL for me. This way, I just go into Manual mode and then adjust the settings as I go.
Other than that I use mainly Aperture priority or shutter if I need any special thing.
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02/11/2010 08:43:23 AM · #8 |
Only three of about 25 lenses that I use will work in auto modes, or meter at all with the camera that I use, so all manual settings and focus is the way I have to get most of my photos. When I use the auto lenses, I normally shoot aperture priority to control DOF.
Message edited by author 2010-02-11 08:43:53.
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02/11/2010 09:16:45 AM · #9 |
I generally use aperture priority, but will use manual under special circumstances where the camera is incapable of picking the correct settings (such as fireworks) or when I am using my cheapo optically triggered strobes.
I do agree that using manual mode is probably the fastest way to understand exposure. |
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02/11/2010 09:31:12 AM · #10 |
If it involves a flash I use manual exclusively. To me, there isn't really a single valid reason NOT to other than lack of knowledge (which isn't really valid either). As  Yo_Spiff noted, I'll also use it for very specific things- anything with a long exposure or for special blurring/lighting effects. Generally I prefer aperture priority. Using manual does, as others have noted, give you a better feel for understanding what exactly an exposure value is and how to react quickly/interpret a scene before you even hit the shutter. It becomes subconscious knowledge (I'm definitely still getting this part... it's sorta slow but definitely related to how often you use manual).
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02/11/2010 09:35:02 AM · #11 |
| I only use manual when I am lightpainting rest of the time i am stuck on P mode |
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02/11/2010 09:49:01 AM · #12 |
| I used to use Ap mostly, and used exposure compensation for times I knew the camera was going to over or under expose. I started finding that I was getting inconsistent results, not enough continuity in my exposures. See the problem with the auto mode is it relies on the metering, so if you meter off of the groom one second the camera thinks dark and over exposes to compensate, then the bride the next, who is in white, and it under exposes to compensate. If I use manual, I can meter the whole scene, determine how I want the exposure and set the camera accordingly and then shoot away at the bride or groom or whatever and get "consistent" results with exposure precisely where I want them,not close to where I want them. This also helps in PP in lightroom when a group of photos are all the same exposure I can do group adjustments with more consistency as well. Don't get me wrong, I still you Ap,there just seems to be more and more times I'm finding it less work and creatively more controllable to do it myself. Oh, and anything flash related, on camera or off, is strictly Manual mode. |
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02/11/2010 09:49:39 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity:
I'm always browsing the web for tips and tricks on photography, and I keep coming across the same thing over and over again, "get your camera out of auto mode and use manual, it will make you so much better", I have to disagree.
My camera spends it's life in either aperture priority or shutter priority, I think I've used manual mode about twice since getting my D700. I paid a lot of money for a camera because it can do clever things like meter the light for me, calculate fill flash etc, and I just don't understand why when the camera does such a good job of those things that you would want to use manual and have to do it all yourself. I mean, I'm sure it's a great learning experience, but I would say that's about it.
If I need brighter or darker pictures, I change my exposure comp, set the aperture (or shutter) and let the camera worry about the rest, and in general, I think it does a very good job.
So, tell me why manual mode is such a wonderful thing, because honestly, I just don't get it! |
When many people say "get the camera in manual mode," what they actually mean is one of the three manual modes, as opposed to M itself - Av, Tv, and M are all generally considered "manual" as compared to the Auto modes, where the camera does ALL the thinking.
As for M vs. Av/Tv, that's a whole long debate. Personally, I use M much of the time because it's the mode I'm most comfortable with; I can make changes quickly and dial in on the exact setting I want. But I have been trying to use Av + Exposure Comp. more often of late, since I've heard many people suggest that it's a good way to go. For situations where the light varies depending on where you point the lens, I find it to be helpful, and often quicker than M.
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02/11/2010 10:06:56 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity:
I'm always browsing the web for tips and tricks on photography, and I keep coming across the same thing over and over again, "get your camera out of auto mode and use manual, it will make you so much better", I have to disagree.
My camera spends it's life in either aperture priority or shutter priority, I think I've used manual mode about twice since getting my D700. I paid a lot of money for a camera because it can do clever things like meter the light for me, calculate fill flash etc, and I just don't understand why when the camera does such a good job of those things that you would want to use manual and have to do it all yourself. I mean, I'm sure it's a great learning experience, but I would say that's about it.
If I need brighter or darker pictures, I change my exposure comp, set the aperture (or shutter) and let the camera worry about the rest, and in general, I think it does a very good job.
So, tell me why manual mode is such a wonderful thing, because honestly, I just don't get it! |
I use my camera like you do most of the time. In fact often in "P". I still leaves me with all kinds of 'manual' control. But when shooting with studio lights it's a must with manual mode since auto simply doesn't work (I'm sure there are exceptions to this; but none that are practical for me). |
Ok, manual mode was and still is used as a teaching tool. When I went through photo school some 20 yrs ago, all other modes were so new that the technology wasn't that great. When learning photography I'm a huge proponate of learning manual. You need to know what your camera is going to do and how everything relates to getting a good exposure. What I've found is that with the new bells and whistles that cameras have now are great, however its made us, including me lazy. Keeping this in mind I've started shooting in manual again just to keep in practice. When shooting jobs I will shoot in either Apeture or shutter mode depending on what I'm shooting. When shooting sports I'm almost always in shutter mode, this allows me the control the action. Most everything else will be in apeture mode. My lensbaby forces me to shoot in manual and I love experimenting with it.
Message edited by author 2010-02-11 10:07:22. |
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02/11/2010 10:18:30 AM · #15 |
| yeah, manual is great for getting to know stuff, ive got two ai lenses for my d60 and manual is the only way to use them, also i use an old flash with an optical trigger so i have to use the built in flash or my sb600 in manual mode to all ow that to work, but it does make sense to not underestimate Auto, although i use either aperture or shutter priority mostly my best photos were done on auto, you do pay a fair whack to get all the features so you may as well use them! |
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02/11/2010 10:28:22 AM · #16 |
For me I think I do need to shoot manual more. Firstly, it forces you to slow down and actually think about how you are going to expose your image creatively. There's usually at least six ways of changing shutter speed, aperture and ISO to get a "correct" exposure. But which one fits your vision?
I also like to use manual with contrasty scenes where I am not able to do HDR. I'll meter for the bright areas, meter for the shadows and make a decision based on that how to expose the whole scene.
Finally, I'd like to point out that the whole reason I bought an SLR was for the control. Going with the "camera takes pictures just fine" attitude you may as well shoot in JPG with a point and shoot. A point and shoot will take pictures just fine. Its when you decide that as nice as that P&S picture is, its not what I had in mind that you need to gain that control. To use a car analogy, an automatic transmission will move you car from point a to point b with no problems. How many race cars however have automatic transmissions? None that I've heard of..because the drive wants the control.
For a further explanation (which would be far better than anything I'll write here) check out the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson
Message edited by author 2010-02-11 10:29:50.
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02/11/2010 11:02:55 AM · #17 |
To me Av and Tv are not automatic modes, they could be classified as semi-auto since the camera is setting some of the parameters for you.
To get the correct exposure (as you the photographer sees it), in these modes you accept what the camera is telling you or dial in some exposure compensation.
In manual mode you make your settings to get the exposure needle at zero (if you accept the camera's metering) or you change one of the parameters to over/under expose as you want. This is the same as using exposure compensation for Av/Tv IMO.
People use whichever mode they feel will allow them to get the shot. If you can't get the shot then what's the point.
P mode could even be used here which can be equated more to full auto than others but the photographer has the option to change a lot which you can't change when in full auto. Also, a lot of cameras have what is called 'program shift' which allows the photographer to change up the av/tv setting pair to get the affect they want. Exposure compensation can also be used in this mode. |
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02/11/2010 11:21:22 AM · #18 |
I prefer to use Manual cause I'm a control freak! :-) May sound silly but I feel like I'm cheating if I use a mode that gives the camera a say in the settings. Sometimes I'll switch to Auto just to see what the camera will do on its own in a particular situation, then return to Manual and work off of those settings.
I have a nodding acquaintance with both A and P settings, so wouldn't hurt to shoot a little more with them. Just so long as I can return to my comfort zone of Manual....and the comfort zone of the manual for the cam, too. All those new menus and sub-menus. |
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02/11/2010 12:42:02 PM · #19 |
| I will use whatever mode is appropriate for the shot I'm taking (between A, S & M), but the important thing about Manual mode is that we recognise when we need to use it. As long as we understand the modes and what they offer, and how to use them in the right circumstances, then I can't consider it cheating! |
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02/11/2010 12:51:38 PM · #20 |
Aperture priority or shutter speed priority + using the exposure adjustment dial to kick up or dial down the exposure is pretty much the same as manual mode.
Where manual mode really kicks in is with the use of a spot meter or other external metering device, or when using off camera flash like the strobists do. |
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02/11/2010 01:37:04 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:
Aperture priority or shutter speed priority + using the exposure adjustment dial to kick up or dial down the exposure is pretty much the same as manual mode. |
This is not really true. When you're in Tv or Ap, the metering is making changes all the time, changes in the exposure, until you achieve exposure lock by whatever means suits you best. When you're in full manual, the exposure remains exactly the same (x aperture, 1/y shutter speed) forever, unless you change it, regardless of what the light meter is seeing.
This is both a blessing, and a curse...
If you're shooting "reactive" type shots, action, say, or wedding candids, or if you're just cruising along grabbing snapshots, then one of the priority modes is great. But for more studied work, where you have time to compose and contemplate, full manual just makes more sense.
Look at it this way: I'm framing up a scene that has a broad landscape with the foreground filled with a field of yellow wildflowers and the sky a brilliant blue with many white clouds scudding through. Now, in an averaging meter mode, the indicated exposure is going to change depending on how much foreground I include in the shot and how many clouds happen to be in the sky at the given time of metering, right? But in reality, Regardless of those two factors I want the exposure to stay the same. I can't rely on EV compensation to maintain the same exposure, 'cuz it's compensating from a different baseline.
The difference gets even more extreme if you're shooting into the sun, say, with a bright "mirror" of ripples on the bay in the foreground. The meter is going to show radically different exposures for a shot that's 75% sky vs one that's 75% water, but in reality the optimum exposure would be the same for both shots.
Now, it's very important for photographers to *understand* this issue, and this is why we say manual is the preferred teaching mode, but it goes way beyond that.
That's my opinion, anyway, and I'm sticking to it.
R. |
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02/11/2010 01:41:19 PM · #22 |
| Where do I find those options (M,Tv,Av) on my camera? |
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02/11/2010 01:47:09 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by LVicari:
Where do I find those options (M,Tv,Av) on my camera? |
It's usually a little wheel/dial on the top. |
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02/11/2010 01:48:46 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by LVicari:
Where do I find those options (M,Tv,Av) on my camera? |
You`re kidding right? |
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02/11/2010 01:51:30 PM · #25 |
Bear's right. In the circumstances like he describes I often use the camera like a spot meter, using it to get a reading on part of the scene then adjusting and locking it in in M mode. But for the majority of my work, Av or Tv + Ev works just as well. The key, as he points out, is understanding what the meter is doing and recognizing elements in the scene that require you to take more control from it.
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