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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Michael Vick renews faith in Christ
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02/09/2010 07:41:41 PM · #1
I heard about this on the radio today and I looked up some news articles when I got home. Apparently Vick became a Christian in high school but then lost his faith as he became famous. While in prison, Tony Dungy helped him turn around and Michale Vick renewed his faith in Jesus Christ. Here's a few links:

Michael Vick's Redemption, and Ours
Michael Vick Shares First-Ever Testimony

What are your thoughts?
02/09/2010 08:13:34 PM · #2
Tony Dungy is a stud? and if we are in need of role-models or "heroes" he might be on the short list.

The words to Amazing Grace actually came to my mind before the essayist quoted them. :)
02/09/2010 08:34:57 PM · #3
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Tony Dungy is a stud? and if we are in need of role-models or "heroes" he might be on the short list.

The words to Amazing Grace actually came to my mind before the essayist quoted them. :)


Yea, Amazing Grace is right. This is just another remarkable example of how Christ can turn a life around.

ETA: This is also a prime example of the clear difference between a person who calls themselves a Christian but has no faith, and the person that has strong faith. Calling yourself a Christian doesn't change you any more than calling yourself a Democrat does. The change that happens in your life is a result of what you believe. Vick's faith has caused him to change his life for the better and I don't think anyone can refute that.

Message edited by author 2010-02-09 20:42:01.
02/09/2010 08:54:05 PM · #4
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Vick's faith has caused him to change his life for the better and I don't think anyone can refute that.

Incarceration tends to do that, too.
02/09/2010 09:01:08 PM · #5
not to mention facing bankruptcy, having his name dragged through the mud from Mexico to Greenland and all but throwing away a storybook football career.

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Vick's faith has caused him to change his life for the better and I don't think anyone can refute that.

Incarceration tends to do that, too.
02/09/2010 09:05:14 PM · #6
anything but Christ, right guys?
02/09/2010 09:08:15 PM · #7
Originally posted by karmat:

anything but Christ, right guys?

No, but you can't cry foul at a religious conclusion in one thread and then turn around and make a similar claim in another.

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

there are many factors involved. You can't just pick one of those factors and say, "That's it!
02/09/2010 09:24:23 PM · #8
Odds are he would not have turned to Christ had he not gotten himself into trouble to begin with. So it really is Everything and Christ. It was a series of bad things that lead him back to his faith, just like most born again christians.

Originally posted by karmat:

anything but Christ, right guys?
02/09/2010 09:29:50 PM · #9
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Vick's faith has caused him to change his life for the better and I don't think anyone can refute that.

Incarceration tends to do that, too.


Actually a fair number of former inmates return to prison. Google it. Rehabilitation programs tend to help people turn around, but incarceration alone doesn't necessarily do it.
02/09/2010 09:31:24 PM · #10
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Vick's faith has caused him to change his life for the better and I don't think anyone can refute that.

Incarceration tends to do that, too.


I think we all wish this was more true than it really is.

I still look at it as an example of someone (Dungy) who reached out to someone in a time of crisis and effected a change. Dungy's tool was Christ (or some of us would say vice-versa), but even the humanitarian can take away the example of reaching out at the right time to help someone.
02/09/2010 09:53:51 PM · #11
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:



Yea, Amazing Grace is right. This is just another remarkable example of how Christ can turn a life around.



...and surprisingly enough, when inmates convert to Islam they are most often than not viewed with suspicion.

Ray

Message edited by author 2010-02-09 21:54:17.
02/09/2010 09:55:20 PM · #12
Originally posted by karmat:

anything but Christ, right guys?

Right. A mythological figure doesn't actually do anything. As it happens, I was re-reading Salman Rushdie's treatise "In Good Faith" tonight, published in 1990, a year after all his troubles started (I've got a first edition, naturally). It's meant to exhort Muslims to assume good faith when referring to "The Satanic Verses", as well as being a kind of explanation about what the book is really about it. One of the best quotes is the following.

"Human beings understand themselves and shape their futures by arguing and challenging and questioning and saying the unsayable; not by bowing the knee, whether to gods or men."

So in my view, this Vick fellow, with the aid of a like-minded individual, has helped himself, but like all those of faith, refuses to give credit where credit is due, namely to himself, and his fellow humans. Myth need not enter into any of it. The collective inferiority complex that people have is what's interesting about this and other situations. Also reminds me of the palm-reading Ms. Palin the other day, who scolded her adoring audience with the admonition to give credit to their "creator" for shaping their political life. Scary, scary stuff.
02/09/2010 10:00:00 PM · #13
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Vick's faith has caused him to change his life for the better and I don't think anyone can refute that.

Incarceration tends to do that, too.

Rehabilitation programs tend to help people turn around, but incarceration alone doesn't necessarily do it.

If incarceration didn't cause people to reconsider their lives, parole would be utterly pointless.
02/09/2010 10:23:23 PM · #14
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Vick's faith has caused him to change his life for the better and I don't think anyone can refute that.

Incarceration tends to do that, too.

Rehabilitation programs tend to help people turn around, but incarceration alone doesn't necessarily do it.

If incarceration didn't cause people to reconsider their lives, parole would be utterly pointless.


I hear ya. I think I was reacting to the "change his life for the better" since we all know the dismal stats for recidivism. The US does a pretty poor job with its prisoners (although you'd think we'd get it right since we have so darn many). That's all I'm saying. If you want to take the humanist view, pointing to Dungy is a far better bet than US Prisons.
02/09/2010 11:04:06 PM · #15
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I think I was reacting to the "change his life for the better" since we all know the dismal stats for recidivism. If you want to take the humanist view, pointing to Dungy is a far better bet than US Prisons.

It's a pretty safe bet that Vick was inspired to turn his life around somewhere between the indictment and the sentencing (with or without Dungy).
02/09/2010 11:09:40 PM · #16
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I think I was reacting to the "change his life for the better" since we all know the dismal stats for recidivism. If you want to take the humanist view, pointing to Dungy is a far better bet than US Prisons.

It's a pretty safe bet that Vick was inspired to turn his life around somewhere between the indictment and the sentencing (with or without Dungy).

Really? Because Vick himself disagrees with you. I'm assuming you didn't read the article, so here's what Vick said.
"Pre-incarceration it was all about me. When I got to prison, I realized I couldn't do it anymore. The one thing I could rely on was my faith in God."
This is from the second link in the first post.
02/09/2010 11:12:28 PM · #17
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Originally posted by scalvert:

It's a pretty safe bet that Vick was inspired to turn his life around somewhere between the indictment and the sentencing (with or without Dungy).

"Pre-incarceration it was all about me. When I got to prison, I realized I couldn't do it anymore.

That would be the sentencing.
02/09/2010 11:19:10 PM · #18
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Originally posted by scalvert:

It's a pretty safe bet that Vick was inspired to turn his life around somewhere between the indictment and the sentencing (with or without Dungy).

"Pre-incarceration it was all about me. When I got to prison, I realized I couldn't do it anymore.

That would be the sentencing.

indictment and sentencing take place before incarceration... don't they? Maybe I misunderstood your post.
02/09/2010 11:38:04 PM · #19
Originally posted by karmat:

anything but Christ, right guys?


Actually NO..but we must not overlook the simple fact that there are many many people out there that have changed their ways without Christ.

Ray
02/09/2010 11:51:00 PM · #20
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

indictment and sentencing take place before incarceration... don't they?

Sentencing is when the realization hits that you're going to jail. Barring mental illness or actual innocence, it would be painfully obvious to anyone that he or she can't keep living the same way. No religion or former NFL coach is necessary to reach this conclusion, just the tiniest bit of common sense.
02/10/2010 12:33:20 AM · #21
But apparently that lesson doesn't stick for three years in 66% of the people.

I really can't believe you are trying to make the argument that the most likely thing that changed Vick was his prison term. It doesn't seem like a very Shannon argument.
02/10/2010 12:38:05 AM · #22
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:


What are your thoughts?


if instead of Christianity he turned to islaam, i wonder how america would have taken him. Islaam also has God isn't it.

jus wonderin
02/10/2010 12:53:03 AM · #23
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

indictment and sentencing take place before incarceration... don't they?

Sentencing is when the realization hits that you're going to jail. Barring mental illness or actual innocence, it would be painfully obvious to anyone that he or she can't keep living the same way. No religion or former NFL coach is necessary to reach this conclusion, just the tiniest bit of common sense.


Well there's a difference between realizing that the way you're living isn't getting you anywhere and actually wanting to change. My uncle was a corrections officer for years and bases on the stories he told me, I would say there area fair number of convicts that never decide to change. Lots of prisoners continue to commit crimes while they're in prison.

You just like to argue about anything and everything don't you scalvert...
02/10/2010 01:07:41 AM · #24
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:


You just like to argue about anything and everything don't you scalvert...


now that is another thread. :-D

// jus jokin
02/10/2010 01:35:22 AM · #25
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Lots of prisoners continue to commit crimes while they're in prison.

We aren't talking about the ones who DON'T change, are we? Lots of people continue to smoke or gain weight, too. Of those who DO decide to change their lifestyle, a horrible experience is a powerful motivator to stop doing whatever got you into that mess (even if the resolution doesn't last). That's not God, it's Pavlov.
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