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02/21/2010 12:12:08 PM · #151
Hmm....

Maybe there's hope for me yet. I've often heard people talking about "Visualizing the Image" before they go out to shoot. I often wonder how you do that when my idea of fun is to go wander off with my camera just to see what I may see......
02/21/2010 12:20:34 PM · #152
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Hmm....

Maybe there's hope for me yet. I've often heard people talking about "Visualizing the Image" before they go out to shoot. I often wonder how you do that when my idea of fun is to go wander off with my camera just to see what I may see......


I guess you've got to find what is best for you. Some writers plan a whole novel out before starting, some just start and see where it takes them. Same with photography. The creative process is really an amazing thing when you start playing with it and it constantly surprises me. I can see how some people in the past, and today, externalise it in the form of the Muse or Daemon and i think that approach has a lot going for it. I really like Psychogeography which is why i was so excited by the 47 steps challenge as that was similar to what i was doing anyway.
02/21/2010 12:26:51 PM · #153
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Question is.....can I learn to be??????

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I suppose you really need to have something to say because if you don't, it will all seem contrived or forced.

I'm screwed! LOL!!!


I personally believe that such learning is possible. I also believe that you have something to say.


Second that, with one modification; I don't think it's as much a matter of learning as it of *un*learning. I think to be an an artist means learning to let go of filters and see with an open eye. "Not form rock, not object rock, but the light that *is* the rock..." is one example of this sort of approach. It's a quote from Wynn Bullock.

R.


I would agree with Robert. Unlearning, and I do believe it can be learned. Seeing in the manner that Steve described requires an open mind and a desire to grow. Contrived and forced is often a feeling I get before I bag an image, or keyword it as crap (my own images, not others). I'm sure I've posted images like this...goes without saying! Particularly when I first joined DPC.

Bullock's quote is spot on, and is reflected in this image of his.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/50000-54999/54645/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_855607.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/50000-54999/54645/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_855607.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
02/21/2010 12:29:06 PM · #154
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Hmm....

Maybe there's hope for me yet. I've often heard people talking about "Visualizing the Image" before they go out to shoot. I often wonder how you do that when my idea of fun is to go wander off with my camera just to see what I may see......


When we do this, we see this and that, right?
Now imagine there's a gallery in your head with pictures you can only dream of (you know the sound of yearning, longing, a musical instrument or the human voice can make - that sort of dream).
Would any of this and that make that gallery any better or worse for it? Would the images cohere?

When you have that gallery in your heart's head, you start pre-visualizing all kinds of stuff. You just can't help it.
The side effect is, of course, that people think you've lost it a little. Your marriage gets rocky, and no one will lend you a dime. Your own mother will accuse you of murder.
02/21/2010 12:41:46 PM · #155
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/308/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_146162.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/308/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_146162.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I think that image is genuine and flowed from within AND our friend used the camera in an artistic, better yet, an imaginative way to convey his message.

Whatever it is, I do think it needs to come from within and however that is taught or learned, is what's at the core of the process. When things come from inside that are honest people can recognize that and you'll find a serious audience however big or small. But don't count on your wife ...or your mother.

Message edited by author 2010-02-21 13:47:25.
02/21/2010 02:32:28 PM · #156
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I do think it needs to come from within


Yeah but too often artists only use their heart and mind leaving the other organs to waste.

Message edited by author 2010-02-21 14:32:43.
02/21/2010 02:45:12 PM · #157
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I do think it needs to come from within


Yeah but too often artists only use their heart and mind leaving the other organs to waste.


!
02/21/2010 03:05:30 PM · #158
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I do think it needs to come from within


Yeah but too often artists only use their heart and mind leaving the other organs to waste.


It's been proven many times - drinking and posting is a bad combination....

...but speaking of Art and wasting your organs, I have a few theories on that one, as well.

To generalize, I think great art is born from inner turmoil or something strong stirring deep within. Drugs, alcohol, depression, love, loss, joy, confusion...
Pair those things with an artistic outlet, a little ability and some very interesting stuff happens.
Most or all of my favorite artists...music, paint, photography etc. all had major issues.

eta: That's not to say that people produce great art while they're wasted

Message edited by author 2010-02-21 15:19:33.
02/21/2010 03:19:02 PM · #159
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I do think it needs to come from within


Yeah but too often artists only use their heart and mind leaving the other organs to waste.


Hmn. Possibly they should donate them?
02/21/2010 03:24:47 PM · #160
Originally posted by pawdrix:

...art is born from inner turmoil or something strong stirring deep within. Drugs, alcohol, depression, love, loss, confusion...
Pair those things with an artistic outlet, a little ability and some very interesting stuff happens.
Most or all of my favorite artists...music, paint, photography etc. all had major issues.


Drugs, depression, loss... etc. are more often than not an effect, a consequence of isolation and social stigma. The role of an outsider is not easily compatible with that of a husband, a wife, father or mother or that of an employee and tax-paying citizen. The social function of art is not understood and only acknowledged when the cheques come in.
02/21/2010 03:37:42 PM · #161
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I do think it needs to come from within


Yeah but too often artists only use their heart and mind leaving the other organs to waste.


The way I understand this comment, is that poets should pay attention to their breath, physical heartbeat, the speed and syllabic rhythm, as and where the lines are born;
musical composers should do alike while minding their feet, where dance is born;

that poetry atrophies the further it moves away from music;
that music atrophies the further it moves from the dance.

That photographers should, similarly, mind the rhythm of their craft, the many, minute details of movement that come into play when they are synced with the fleeting visual givens of visual experience.
02/21/2010 03:51:27 PM · #162
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

...art is born from inner turmoil or something strong stirring deep within. Drugs, alcohol, depression, love, loss, confusion...
Pair those things with an artistic outlet, a little ability and some very interesting stuff happens.
Most or all of my favorite artists...music, paint, photography etc. all had major issues.


Drugs, depression, loss... etc. are more often than not an effect, a consequence of isolation and social stigma. The role of an outsider is not easily compatible with that of a husband, a wife, father or mother or that of an employee and tax-paying citizen. The social function of art is not understood and only acknowledged when the cheques come in.


...you can say that again.
02/21/2010 03:59:38 PM · #163
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I do think it needs to come from within


Yeah but too often artists only use their heart and mind leaving the other organs to waste.


The way I understand this comment, is that poets should pay attention to their breath, physical heartbeat, the speed and syllabic rhythm, as and where the lines are born;
musical composers should do alike while minding their feet, where dance is born;

that poetry atrophies the further it moves away from music;
that music atrophies the further it moves from the dance.

That photographers should, similarly, mind the rhythm of their craft, the many, minute details of movement that come into play when they are synced with the fleeting visual givens of visual experience.


Ever try dancing to Coltranes "A Love Supreme"...?

Originally posted by zeuszen:


Drugs, depression, loss... etc. are more often than not an effect, a consequence of isolation and social stigma.


In that case I've been drinking and doing drugs for all the wrong reasons. Seriously, drugs and alcohol ex·ac·er·bate those feeling but occasionally become the source of pain themselves.

Message edited by author 2010-02-21 16:20:29.
02/21/2010 04:08:14 PM · #164
Originally posted by pawdrix:


To generalize, I think great art is born from inner turmoil or something strong stirring deep within. Drugs, alcohol, depression, love, loss, joy, confusion...
Pair those things with an artistic outlet, a little ability and some very interesting stuff happens.
Most or all of my favorite artists...music, paint, photography etc. all had major issues.


I'd agree with that. In fact, some the most moving, thought provoking and effecting art i've seen has been by some so called 'Ousider' artists, people who don't create art or become artists out of choice but out of a necessity.Who have to create art in order to survive really as without it they may spiral off further into insanity. In fact, one of the few pieces of art that had a huge, quite violent physical effect on me and had me in heaps of tears was from the Prinzhorn collection and was a large spiral or spirals of black clouds that seemed to shift and drag you in whilst looking at it. It was only when you looked very close that you could see that it was made up of the same sentence written in extremely tiny black letters literally hundreds of thousands of times over and over on top of each other. The sentence when translated was something like 'Daddy please save me'. Thats an extreme example of course and it could be said that lots of things make us cry. People bawl over Hollywood weepies such as Titanic etc but i would say that this, as a work of art, transcended all that and became something more and like i said, had quite a physical effect on me even before i worked out what it was made out of. There are loads of ethical and moral dilemmas that go along with 'Outsider Art' of course but thats another issue.
02/21/2010 04:20:24 PM · #165
How about this for a Challenge description:

Take a photograph that can be used as a canvas to create a Work of Art. Creatively express yourself and hope that a viewer makes a connection with the image you have created, can see the attributes you have enhanced in post processing or identifies something unique about your image, based on their own interpretation - either way they will call it a 'Work of Art'. The goal is to draw the viewer into your 'art'.

?

Too wordy I know (but it doesn't matter for those that do not read the description). Unless 'we' can loosely define it sufficiently, I doubt it will get put up for a Challenge. But then again, there's been plenty of 'N/A' descriptions in the past.
02/21/2010 05:19:38 PM · #166
Originally posted by pawdrix:

...Ever try dancing to Coltranes "A Love Supreme"...?


Well, I grant you it's a little more challenging then dancing to the Beach Boys or Strauss, but there is a recognizable rhythm and percussion and that yearning that causes the body the sway. I'm actually very happy you didn't link to Sokolov (Stravinsky) or Stockhausen.

Message edited by author 2010-02-21 17:19:57.
02/21/2010 05:37:03 PM · #167
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

...Ever try dancing to Coltranes "A Love Supreme"...?


Well, I grant you it's a little more challenging then dancing to the Beach Boys or Strauss, but there is a recognizable rhythm and percussion and that yearning that causes the body the sway. I'm actually very happy you didn't link to Sokolov (Stravinsky) or Stockhausen.


Well, i tend to be more partial to Xenakis, Ligeti or Sun 0))) but i get the idea.

Message edited by author 2010-02-21 17:39:14.
02/21/2010 05:42:01 PM · #168
Originally posted by zeuszen:

I'm actually very happy you didn't link to Sokolov (Stravinsky) or Stockhausen.


lolol, well, I was being nice. Having once tried dancing to Edgard Varese on a crowded E Train during rush hour and knowing how well that worked out, I thought I'd spare you the embarrassment and pain.

Message edited by author 2010-02-21 17:46:53.
02/21/2010 05:44:40 PM · #169
Ebbene, molte, molte grazie per questo. :-/
Chuck Olson

Message edited by author 2010-02-21 18:02:40.
02/21/2010 05:58:05 PM · #170
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Seriously, drugs and alcohol ex·ac·er·bate those feeling but occasionally become the source of pain themselves.

Yeah, no shit.....and continue to be that for the rest of your life, and sometimes, the cause of the loss of it.
02/21/2010 06:01:57 PM · #171
Originally posted by zeuszen:

The role of an outsider is not easily compatible with that of a husband, a wife, father or mother or that of an employee and tax-paying citizen.

In fact, those ordinary, yet necessary roles often contribute as validating the role of the outsider, causing much strife.
Originally posted by zeuszen:

The social function of art is not understood and only acknowledged when the cheques come in.

And once the commercial shift occurs, then sometimes it's not really so much about art any more....
03/01/2010 11:20:55 AM · #172
Originally posted by yakatme:

I'd probably go in with an addition to my orchids painted with light:

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Yep. Those work for me. :-) Very nice.
03/01/2010 12:23:02 PM · #173
I second this approach - ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30000-34999/30222/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_716265.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30000-34999/30222/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_716265.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
03/01/2010 12:41:02 PM · #174
This should put an end to this discussion as the following internet based explanation certainly clears up any misunderstanding:

"Fine Art Photography is distinguishable from Coarse Art Photography by
the number of pixels or grains in the image. There is also Medium Art
Photography, and SuperFine Art Photography. There once was ExtraCoarse Art
Photography but it was only a fad and dissapeared."

So the strategy is to set your camera on the largest image size available!

(LOL)
03/01/2010 12:46:54 PM · #175
Originally posted by rodneyg:

This should put an end to this discussion as the following internet based explanation certainly clears up any misunderstanding:

"Fine Art Photography is distinguishable from Coarse Art Photography by
the number of pixels or grains in the image. There is also Medium Art
Photography, and SuperFine Art Photography. There once was ExtraCoarse Art
Photography but it was only a fad and dissapeared."

So the strategy is to set your camera on the largest image size available!

(LOL)


Good thing I have a 50D huh? ;)
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