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02/03/2010 03:26:50 PM · #101
Well said ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', '/') + 1) . ' pawdrix (previous page)

I too am amazed at the importance placed on sharp detail & also on the importance of accurately capturing only what was in front of the camera. As you say, capturing a sharp image of what's in front of the camera is not that big of a challenge compared to making an image that captures how you feel about it and/or evokes an emotional resonse in others.

Sometimes I think the emphasis placed on sharp detail is a result of the material world we live in, our fascination with 'stuff,' & the satisfaction we get out of documenting our history with it or ownership of it with a camera.

It's relatively easy to make a documentary image that most people react to in mostly the same way. If they have a reaction it's to the subject of the photograph rather than to the photograph itself. Much more difficult to make an image that each person has a unique experience with. For me, that is the attraction of abstract art--for those who have a reaction to it, each one is unique because each person who views it has to put something of self into it while viewing. Of course some will look at abstract art & see unrelated blobs & splashes of color, what is literally there, nothing more.

Being eye to eye with a live eagle is not at all the same thing as looking at a photo of an eagle no matter how sharp the detail. A photo cannot re-create the experience, but looking at a photo can be a unique-for-each-person emotional experience of its own. IMO.

Message edited by author 2010-02-03 15:28:10.
02/03/2010 04:03:11 PM · #102
Originally posted by pixelpig:

...Being eye to eye with a live eagle is not at all the same thing as looking at a photo of an eagle no matter how sharp the detail....


I would continue the analogy: "When the photograph (itself the eagle) becomes the "real thing", however, being eye-to-eye with it, is as good as it gets.
02/03/2010 04:07:34 PM · #103
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by pixelpig:

...Being eye to eye with a live eagle is not at all the same thing as looking at a photo of an eagle no matter how sharp the detail....


I would continue the analogy: "When the photograph (itself the eagle) becomes the "real thing", however, being eye-to-eye with it, is as good as it gets.


Yes. True. It can be as powerful as music. Good to strive for.
02/03/2010 04:15:43 PM · #104
[quote=pixelpig]

Sometimes I think the emphasis placed on sharp detail is a result of the material world we live in, our fascination with 'stuff,' & the satisfaction we get out of documenting our history with it or ownership of it with a camera.

Well said' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' pixelpig. Brings to mind the archtypical paintings of wealthy northern europeans in their fine collars and draperies and maybe a well bred hound or two, commissioned purely to show off such wealth. As well I think modern civilization, or possibly all civilization, has a fixation on 'thinghood,' on boundaries, on stuff you can sink your teeth into or kick (Hume), set a price on, or shove around impersonally in an equation or logical statement. Ultimately an aesthetic impoverishment or The Ultimate Impoverishment.

02/03/2010 04:24:46 PM · #105
I think the sharpness thing is a result of our initial quest to learn how to take sharp pictures with our new equipment or hobby and it seems to become an unshakable obsession for a lot of people. They kinda miss the point or lose what taking pictures is really about. I mean, comparing a hyper-sharp Zoo shot of a captive bird or a Cheetah is nothing compared to a lesser sharp image of them (hunting?) in the wild. Personally, I enjoy capturing great moments...expressions...emotions etc. as opposed to taking tack sharp images of nothing. If I'm lucky or on my game...I occasionally succeed.

' . substr('//farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/1216092613_5290378a10_m.jpg', strrpos('//farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/1216092613_5290378a10_m.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I've always loved that ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', '/') + 1) . ' xion image because I think he did a wonderful job of capturing the birds essence which is honestly ten times harder (IMO) than capturing it's feather details.

Here's a grain-o-licious gem from the X-Man. My eye keeps jumping back and forth from the rabid barking/dog/cheetah/puma/sabertoothed/branch and the whooshing bird. Purdy cool.

Message edited by author 2010-02-16 11:41:58.
02/03/2010 04:41:32 PM · #106
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I think the sharpness thing is a result of our initial quest to learn how to take sharp pictures with our new equipment or hobby and it seems to become an unshakable obsession for a lot of people.


Yes, i'd agree. People then often seem to get stuck within those initial parameters and use them as a yardstick with which to judge. This is not solely confined to photography of course. I do quite a bit of writing and once posted up a short story on a website for people to critique. There were one or two who really liked it and could see what i was aiming for but by far the majority of comments were along the lines of 'Awful grammar.'...'Is English your first language?' ...'An editor wouldn't get past the first paragraph of this before throwing it in the trash' I explained that the story was in the first person with a purposely distinctive 'unreliable narrator' style but that didn't matter seemingly. I mentioned the novel 'Riddley Walker' by Russell Hoban and the works of Burroughs, Beckett and Joyce as an influence but they hadn't heard of them. They did recommend that i go away and read 'Elements of Style' though. That advise was from a guy who had a number of science fiction novels published by a small press in Canada so he knew what he was talking about apparently. Shudder.

Message edited by author 2010-02-03 16:42:51.
02/03/2010 04:53:14 PM · #107
Russell Hoban? THAT GUY OWES ME MONEY!!!

Actually, I read the Medusa Frequency a buncha years back. Dug it.

As we buy our camera's we're taught that noise is bad. That's tends to stick with people across the board. I, on the other hand have become quite the grain freak BUT wouldn't bother entering an image I added grain to into a Challenge. Love grain.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30000-34999/32767/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_847350.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30000-34999/32767/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_847350.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Might not be much of a shot but the evil eye...? And dig the grain...right?
eta: Speaking of Joyce...I think she's great.

Message edited by author 2010-02-03 16:55:42.
02/03/2010 04:55:47 PM · #108
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Russell Hoban? THAT GUY OWES ME MONEY!!!

Actually, I read the Medusa Frequency a buncha years back. Dug it.


A fantastic book. One of my favourites from a favorite writer.

Also a huge fan of grain here and getting more so recently i think! ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/100000-104999/102278/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_851559.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/100000-104999/102278/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_851559.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I've entered a few grainy shots into challenges with predictable comments but also some people really enjoying it. There is a technical difference between grain and noise though and i think some people don't quite get the difference.

Message edited by author 2010-02-03 16:59:55.
02/03/2010 06:05:56 PM · #109
I've entered a fair amount of grain myself, but the DPC-aesthetic has pretty much beat it out of me :-) For challenges I mean... Plus, I'm currently enjoying the uber-smoothness of the 5D, so swinging to the other side of the arc right now.

Funny thing: there seems to be an unspoken or tacit agreement, amongst posters to this thread, that "fine art" photographers wouldn't touch Topaz with a 10-foot pole. I have a different perspective; I think it's an amazing creative tool, there's SO much that can be done with it it's staggering, BUT I've basically exhibited none of that here, LOL. Anyway, it's art in that it's emotive and maker-specific visioning...

R.
02/03/2010 06:38:10 PM · #110
Noise reduction anyone?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/5000-9999/7778/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_41383.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/5000-9999/7778/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_41383.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
02/03/2010 06:41:40 PM · #111
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Noise reduction anyone?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/5000-9999/7778/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_41383.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/5000-9999/7778/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_41383.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


NO!

It looks great the way it is.
02/03/2010 07:32:11 PM · #112
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Noise reduction anyone?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/5000-9999/7778/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_41383.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/5000-9999/7778/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_41383.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


Hell, ZZ, to get rid of the noise on that you'd need a bucket of bondo and an extra-wide putty knife. Jejeje™

R.
02/03/2010 09:23:12 PM · #113
Howzis?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60000-64999/63398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_843778.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60000-64999/63398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_843778.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I actually really like this, but it's kinda off the page for my usual stuff....
02/03/2010 09:42:40 PM · #114
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Howzis?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60000-64999/63398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_843778.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60000-64999/63398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_843778.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I actually really like this, but it's kinda off the page for my usual stuff....


Geeze, you're going all arty on us, Jeb...

R.
02/03/2010 11:46:22 PM · #115
I hear you clive. The hardest thing to get critiquers to understand is the concept of "voice" and what that voice requires, which is what the work needs. Generic rules of language are eclipsed by the needs of the work. The writer's only duty is to the work.
02/04/2010 05:42:52 AM · #116
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Howzis?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60000-64999/63398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_843778.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60000-64999/63398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_843778.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I actually really like this, but it's kinda off the page for my usual stuff....


Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Geeze, you're going all arty on us, Jeb...

R.

Okay, but do you LIKE it?
02/04/2010 05:48:58 AM · #117
Originally posted by posthumous:

I hear you clive. The hardest thing to get critiquers to understand is the concept of "voice" and what that voice requires, which is what the work needs. Generic rules of language are eclipsed by the needs of the work. The writer's only duty is to the work.

That to me is what it's all about with what I read. I almost don't care about the actual story; grab me, suck me in, and don't let me go 'til you've gone and had your way with me......leave me drained and wanting more.......8>)
02/04/2010 10:12:57 AM · #118
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by posthumous:

I hear you clive. The hardest thing to get critiquers to understand is the concept of "voice" and what that voice requires, which is what the work needs. Generic rules of language are eclipsed by the needs of the work. The writer's only duty is to the work.

That to me is what it's all about with what I read. I almost don't care about the actual story; grab me, suck me in, and don't let me go 'til you've gone and had your way with me......leave me drained and wanting more.......8>)

Vampires. :-)
02/04/2010 10:53:16 AM · #119
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


Okay, but do you LIKE it?


Very much, actually.

R.
02/04/2010 11:22:51 AM · #120
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Okay, but do you LIKE it?

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Very much, actually.

R.

Cool! Thanks!
02/06/2010 01:56:15 AM · #121
I suppose I could use the challenge to succumb to my hidden love of image grain...

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/40000-44999/40718/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_481514.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/40000-44999/40718/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_481514.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
02/06/2010 02:36:48 AM · #122
I very much like image grain, and I like Clive's above example.

I've yet to have a grainy image go well with the voters. Often comments wonder if it was purposeful or just a noisy image.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1158/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_849179.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1158/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_849179.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

02/06/2010 11:32:49 AM · #123
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by posthumous:

I hear you clive. The hardest thing to get critiquers to understand is the concept of "voice" and what that voice requires, which is what the work needs. Generic rules of language are eclipsed by the needs of the work. The writer's only duty is to the work.

That to me is what it's all about with what I read. I almost don't care about the actual story; grab me, suck me in, and don't let me go 'til you've gone and had your way with me......leave me drained and wanting more.......8>)


okay... see... now I don't know if I'll ever write again...

hahahahaha
02/06/2010 06:15:34 PM · #124
Originally posted by posthumous:

I hear you clive. The hardest thing to get critiquers to understand is the concept of "voice" and what that voice requires, which is what the work needs. Generic rules of language are eclipsed by the needs of the work. The writer's only duty is to the work.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

That to me is what it's all about with what I read. I almost don't care about the actual story; grab me, suck me in, and don't let me go 'til you've gone and had your way with me......leave me drained and wanting more.......8>)


Originally posted by posthumous:

okay... see... now I don't know if I'll ever write again...

hahahahaha

To me, the mark of a great writer is someone who can engage me to a point where I lose track of everything else but the story I'm embroiled in......I want to be late for whatever, and not care 'cause I just have to read just that little bit more.

Michael Connelly and James Lee Burke do that to me.
02/07/2010 08:35:33 AM · #125
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


To me, the mark of a great writer is someone who can engage me to a point where I lose track of everything else but the story I'm embroiled in......I want to be late for whatever, and not care 'cause I just have to read just that little bit more.


Yeah, but did you have to say " grab me, suck me in, and don't let me go 'til you've gone and had your way with me......"?

Kinda freaked me out.
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