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03/21/2010 07:31:02 PM · #126 |
| Peggy's a Foxpublican...not the worst of the worst, I should add but that article is pretty silly. |
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03/21/2010 07:38:55 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
...however they are driving around in a Cadillac Escillade and own a big screen TV... |
You're so, lost in the sauce. You're willing to fight for big business, oil companies, the banking industry but the little guy get's your wrath. I'm NOT defending the welfare state but so many people are getting f@#$%d by the Insurance Companies...while they post huge profits. I've been working my whole life...physically harder than any single friend I have and I might be in some trouble soon when my healthcare runs out in a few months.
Every civilized country in the world provides healthcare for it's people...what's our problem? |
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03/21/2010 07:42:01 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Every civilized country in the world provides healthcare for it's people...what's our problem? |
The people tend to be better educated (and therefore less gullible) in those countries. |
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03/22/2010 08:55:07 AM · #129 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Every civilized country in the world provides healthcare for it's people...what's our problem? |
The people tend to be better educated (and therefore less gullible) in those countries. |
I'm glad to know that our distrust of government is merely a matter of ignorance. Thank you for that. If we only will allow ourselves to be more thoroughly educated we'll swallow the pill a whole lot easier? Sorry...the whole thing stinks, and no amount of education is going to change our sense of smell. |
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03/22/2010 09:47:30 AM · #130 |
"Gullible" is close, but I think a lot of people in the US seem to prefer the "shock factor". For some reason it's easier for them to believe in big government conspiracies and killing grandma than it is to believe that one side doesn't want the other side re-elected so it's doing all that it can do to prevent the very thing he campaigned on.
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03/22/2010 09:51:29 AM · #131 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
OK for all the brits in here....How much do you pay in taxes to cover this healthcare cost that you love so much... |
Maybe a better question to ask "the brits" is which system they'd prefer living with, the American health care system before reform, or their own... |
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03/22/2010 10:01:01 AM · #132 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
OK for all the brits in here....How much do you pay in taxes to cover this healthcare cost that you love so much... |
Maybe a better question to ask "the brits" is which system they'd prefer living with, the American health care system before reform, or their own... |
I'm Canadian. I can tell you in a heartbeat. For anybody that says "the whole thing stinks", I'd ask how much it reeked that your prior government spent trillions of dollars on that war of yours and set the stage for the actual future bankruptcy of your nation. "Obama's bankrupting the nation." I've never heard politics pleaded like religion quite so succinctly before. |
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03/22/2010 10:14:25 AM · #133 |
We're so in the dark ages on this issue it's really shocking compared to the rest of the world. I'm winding down on a corporate plan that I'm about to lose and if I try to maintain it the cost will be around $700 or more...which is insane. And if I go to the doctor or actually get sick...there will still be all the deductibles and denials of care, certain medications etc.....and if you get really, really sick...then you're screwed.
What I really take issue with is people casting dispersions on folks in my situation as a loser or a lazy, scofflaw...looking for a handout. Especially after seeing corporate raping of our country nearly spinning the planet off it's axis and what appears to be strong desire to maintain the status quo...it's a bad dream. How many people go bankrupt with the system we have in place? How many people pay their own way into the system for years and get denied decent care? No other country in the civilized world have this mentality and it's beginning to reveal not only who we really are but...what we aren't...how crude we are and why we're falling behind other nations, in every way imaginable.
Message edited by author 2010-03-22 10:26:20. |
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03/22/2010 10:28:03 AM · #134 |
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03/22/2010 10:36:13 AM · #135 |
The claim that the US Health Care System (pre-reform) is the best in the world just boggles my mind.
Yes, the US may have (or does have) some of the best professionals working in the health care field. However, you can't judge a system by who is employed/working in it. How good it is depends on how well it serves the population.
Just based on denial of care, patients going bankrupt trying to fund their treatment and those forgoing treatment because they can't afford it to me says it's a system that doesn't work very well at all.
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03/22/2010 11:07:25 AM · #136 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
We're so in the dark ages on this issue it's really shocking compared to the rest of the world. I'm winding down on a corporate plan that I'm about to lose and if I try to maintain it the cost will be around $700 or more...which is insane. And if I go to the doctor or actually get sick...there will still be all the deductibles and denials of care, certain medications etc.....and if you get really, really sick...then you're screwed.
What I really take issue with is people casting dispersions on folks in my situation as a loser or a lazy, scofflaw...looking for a handout. Especially after seeing corporate raping of our country nearly spinning the planet off it's axis and what appears to be strong desire to maintain the status quo...it's a bad dream. How many people go bankrupt with the system we have in place? How many people pay their own way into the system for years and get denied decent care? No other country in the civilized world have this mentality and it's beginning to reveal not only who we really are but...what we aren't...how crude we are and why we're falling behind other nations, in every way imaginable. |
Well down here in Texas it feels more like the stone age. You should listen to those who call into the radio programs to complain about the bill. They seem to think we're Nazi Germany. I guess I missed the part where Hitler provided heathcare to his people. I seem to recall the exact opposite happening... Maybe that's in the enhanced version of the school textbooks the buffoons are rewriting. |
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03/22/2010 12:17:50 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by farfel53:
I'm glad to know that our distrust of government is merely a matter of ignorance. |
Not just ignorance. Ignorance and gullibility. It's the pinnacle of hypocrisy for a senator to cry foul over socialism and government healthcare when they wouldn't dare touch social security or medicare and choose government-run healthcare for themselves. You have to be clueless AND gullible not to see through that.
Many developed nations can provide affordable healthcare for their people, so why can't we? It might seem expensive, but health costs have already been spiraling out of control for years. I'll take my chances with approaches proven successful in other countries over a status quo of skyrocketing premiums and reduced benefits. |
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03/22/2010 01:09:04 PM · #138 |
| Well, if no one else likes the passing (sarcasm), at least this company does. . . . |
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03/22/2010 01:49:38 PM · #139 |
| Note: Health care stocks are on the rise today. I guess "investors" think the health care biz is going to make out OK ... |
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03/22/2010 02:39:58 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note: Health care stocks are on the rise today. I guess "investors" think the health care biz is going to make out OK ... |
They are all going to make out great. Especially pharmaceuticals. Lots of new customers paid for by tax dollars, no cost controls, no rate hike controls... You didn't hear them complain all that much. They are not the ones getting the shaft. |
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03/22/2010 02:45:34 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note: Health care stocks are on the rise today. I guess "investors" think the health care biz is going to make out OK ... |
They are all going to make out great. Especially pharmaceuticals. Lots of new customers paid for by tax dollars, no cost controls, no rate hike controls... |
So exactly in what way is this is different from how it's turned out under 40 years of private bureaucratic control of the health care industry? |
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03/22/2010 02:54:23 PM · #142 |
I am truly confused -- enlighten me.
Insurance companies, pharma. companies "like" the reform (per the link I posted above -- surely BCBS of NC isn't the only one).
My rep. voted against the bill.
Many are upset with him (he is a democrat) and feel that he should have been a "team player" and voted with the democrats regardless of what he felt his constituents wanted (so much for reaching across the aisle, republicans do that and they are accused of playing the party game), and that he only voted no because he got paid off by the insurance companies and pharm. companies. ????????
++++++++++++++++
My other thought -- what truly saddens me is the hate and vitriol being slung by both sides of the issue (not necessarily here, but dpc isn't immune to it either). Daggone.
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03/22/2010 02:54:56 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by farfel53:
I'm glad to know that our distrust of government is merely a matter of ignorance. |
Not just ignorance. Ignorance and gullibility. It's the pinnacle of hypocrisy for a senator to cry foul over socialism and government healthcare when they wouldn't dare touch social security or medicare and choose government-run healthcare for themselves. You have to be clueless AND gullible not to see through that.
Many developed nations can provide affordable healthcare for their people, so why can't we? It might seem expensive, but health costs have already been spiraling out of control for years. I'll take my chances with approaches proven successful in other countries over a status quo of skyrocketing premiums and reduced benefits. |
You don't have to go far to find people on both sides who think the system needs reform. I just can't see an organization that is full of hypocrisy as you say, and self-interest and self-preservation and downright corruption, that can't run a railroad or a post office or a banking system being able to oversee a health care system.
The pharms and insurance companies are happy today? Must be some pretty tough legislation. Hmmmm...doubt and uncertainty are clouding my mind again... |
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03/22/2010 03:22:07 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note: Health care stocks are on the rise today. I guess "investors" think the health care biz is going to make out OK ... |
They are all going to make out great. Especially pharmaceuticals. Lots of new customers paid for by tax dollars, no cost controls, no rate hike controls... |
So exactly in what way is this is different from how it's turned out under 40 years of private bureaucratic control of the health care industry? |
Tax the rich, give it to the rest (and it ends up in the hands of pharma and insurers), then mandate that everyone have it (some pay 4% - 10% of their income and others pay full price) and disallow refusal or dropping of service.
And note, rich people don't pay taxes. they pass the cost on to the middle class, with interest. So who gets the shaft? |
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03/22/2010 04:03:24 PM · #145 |
Originally posted by karmat:
... (so much for reaching across the aisle, republicans do that and they are accused of playing the party game ... |
I know I'm only picking out a small part of what you said, but really, is that how you see it? I'm gobsmacked. |
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03/22/2010 04:11:08 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by karmat:
... (so much for reaching across the aisle, republicans do that and they are accused of playing the party game ... |
I know I'm only picking out a small part of what you said, but really, is that how you see it? I'm gobsmacked. |
In this one instance, with this one representative, I not only see it like that, it truly seems to be that way.
"My" rep has been told he needed to "be a team player and vote with the other democrats because that is what he was elected to do," has been told he is not really a democrat because "he only votes with the democrats 83% of the time," and that he really needs to "stop hanging out with the republicans."
The exact same people then accused the elected republican officials (and republicans) of blindly following the party.
You're not the only one who's gobsmacked.
(and, yea, the rest of what i said was a little bit important as to *why* i said the snipped you quoted) |
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03/22/2010 04:16:27 PM · #147 |
| The good news is, dems and repubs did come together. Opposition to this bill was bipartisan. |
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03/22/2010 04:30:05 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by karmat:
... (so much for reaching across the aisle, republicans do that and they are accused of playing the party game ... |
I know I'm only picking out a small part of what you said, but really, is that how you see it? I'm gobsmacked. |
In this one instance, with this one representative, I not only see it like that, it truly seems to be that way.
"My" rep has been told he needed to "be a team player and vote with the other democrats because that is what he was elected to do," has been told he is not really a democrat because "he only votes with the democrats 83% of the time," and that he really needs to "stop hanging out with the republicans."
The exact same people then accused the elected republican officials (and republicans) of blindly following the party.
You're not the only one who's gobsmacked.
(and, yea, the rest of what i said was a little bit important as to *why* i said the snipped you quoted) |
Sorry, it was just your apparent characterization of Republicans as people who reach across the aisle that got me.
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03/22/2010 05:41:39 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note: Health care stocks are on the rise today. I guess "investors" think the health care biz is going to make out OK ... |
They are all going to make out great. Especially pharmaceuticals. Lots of new customers paid for by tax dollars, no cost controls, no rate hike controls... You didn't hear them complain all that much. They are not the ones getting the shaft. |
Well, wasn't it you and folks like you who argued against a "government takeover"? So the private insurance market is alive and well, and now you're complaining about that?
By the way, in my opinion one way to achieve cost controls and a truly free-market regime in health care is to do away with tax exemptions for employer-sponsored health care, which would do away with employer-sponsored health care altogether, which means folks would be on their own and have to foot the entire bill, which would force most people to buy catastrophic policies and be a lot more careful about how and how often they use the health care system, thereby driving down cost and making it more affordable. I'm wondering how many ideological purists, all you cowboy rugged individualists, are in favor of that plan! |
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03/22/2010 06:03:34 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note: Health care stocks are on the rise today. I guess "investors" think the health care biz is going to make out OK ... |
They are all going to make out great. Especially pharmaceuticals. Lots of new customers paid for by tax dollars, no cost controls, no rate hike controls... You didn't hear them complain all that much. They are not the ones getting the shaft. |
Well, wasn't it you and folks like you who argued against a "government takeover"? So the private insurance market is alive and well, and now you're complaining about that?
By the way, in my opinion one way to achieve cost controls and a truly free-market regime in health care is to do away with tax exemptions for employer-sponsored health care, which would do away with employer-sponsored health care altogether, which means folks would be on their own and have to foot the entire bill, which would force most people to buy catastrophic policies and be a lot more careful about how and how often they use the health care system, thereby driving down cost and making it more affordable. I'm wondering how many ideological purists, all you cowboy rugged individualists, are in favor of that plan! |
Yes I complained about a govt takeover, but I'm not complaining about insurance companies being happy now, just stating a fact. Pharma, is a differnet story, let us buy meds from out of country. Until then I'm pissed. global economy, global market.
Amazingly, I agree with you on the second half. I'd love it if my company gave me the cash instead and left it up to me to buy my own insurance. But... if I could buy across state lines and have a medical savings account (something for what ever reason is being cut back in this new stupid plan) I'd be happier then a pig in poop.
Message edited by author 2010-03-22 18:05:08. |
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