DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> US Health Reform
Pages:   ...
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 425, (reverse)
AuthorThread
01/30/2010 04:25:05 AM · #1
I've just read an article on the BBC website here which made for an interesting if not slightly baffling read on the reaction by Americans to proposed US health reforms.

I know Obama spent some time here in the UK where he studied and so would have experienced out NHS system which for all its flaws is worth every penny that is spent on it. Knowing that if anything were to happen, that you'd be able to get treatment without it potentially ruining your standard of living is something you can't put a price on.

For example, my Nana has had cancer twice and while private health care was an option, the knowledge that the safety net of the NHS was there meant that the family was able to concentrate on her recovery and we didn't have te burden of worrying about where the money was coming from.

Furthermore, it means that, here in the UK, you don't have to worry about shopping around for the best insurance deal - which may or may not cover every ailment. The NHS will treat almost* anything and that is a great thing.

* Clearly, the NHS cannot affford every treatment under the sun and so there are rarer treatments that are not provided by the NHS. But I'm not suggestin it's a perfect system.

So, to the point. Why are people so against these reforms? Is it, as described in the article, that voters in the US prefer a 'story' over facts? Is it that the notion of a health care system for all, paid for by all is far to socialist to stomach? Or is there something else? I'm just interested to know first hand.

Sincerely

Adam
01/30/2010 06:42:24 AM · #2
I also keep track of this subject on TV , i just cant understand why some Americans cannot buy insurance because they already have a pre-existing illness, they cant work due to this illness and as a result live a poor miserable life with little or no hope of getting cured.

i saw on "Sicko", a documentary by Michael Moore, talking about the Health care in the US, where people who helped in search and rescue operation during 9/11 are now suffering long term debilitating side effect and dont have any health insurance, although this maybe a bit of a spoiler ;P the irony is they go to Cuba to get treatment.

when i was watching the reports on TV about people against the reform bill, all of them were labeling the health care reform as Communist, socialist and a threat to the American way of life, I mean for Gods sake, many developed countries adopt a socialist approach and live a good life with many opportunities.

granted im not an American , and I'll probably wont understand the "American way of life" unless I experience it, but really is health care for everyone that bad?!!
01/30/2010 07:29:21 AM · #3
Originally posted by ahmadbaara:

I also keep track of this subject on TV , i just cant understand why some Americans cannot buy insurance because they already have a pre-existing illness, they cant work due to this illness and as a result live a poor miserable life with little or no hope of getting cured.


i just cant understand why some Americans don’t need to worry about insurance because they already have the illusion of a pre-existing illness, they don’t work due to laziness and as a result live a no effort life with little or no hope of getting cured.
01/30/2010 07:37:44 AM · #4
Our government can't run the post office, How are they going to run Healthcare
01/30/2010 08:00:59 AM · #5
Originally posted by alans_world:

Originally posted by ahmadbaara:

I also keep track of this subject on TV , i just cant understand why some Americans cannot buy insurance because they already have a pre-existing illness, they cant work due to this illness and as a result live a poor miserable life with little or no hope of getting cured.


i just cant understand why some Americans don’t need to worry about insurance because they already have the illusion of a pre-existing illness, they don’t work due to laziness and as a result live a no effort life with little or no hope of getting cured.


so what you are trying to say is that Obama wants to help delusional lazy people? its very unfair to generalize people like, im sure there are genuinely sick people in need and there are lazy people, but why should sick people suffer? are you saying its okay for some people to suffer?
01/30/2010 08:21:14 AM · #6
Ahmad, no I don’t have a problem helping those that genuinely need the help, it’s the percentage that abuse the system that bother me. Overhaul the Welfare system and I bet this “health care reform” will not cost the tax payers much more.
01/30/2010 08:23:07 AM · #7
I don't have health insurance, I used to have health insurance this is the breakdown of what it cost.

Started off as 150 dollars a month, before I had children, then got to my 'prime' (Insurance speak) childbearing years, went up to 300 a month.

Had 3 kids, it went up to 786 dollars a month. Nearly 10,000 a year. At that point I was earning 28,000 minus the 10 grand, brought me down to 18 grand a year, taxes, down to say 16 grand a year, etc etc. So a family of 4 had to live on 16 grand a year, I was lucky and don't have a mortgage, but if I had a mortgage, car bills general bills, household bills, food, clothes etc, you can see it gets pretty damn tight towards the end.

This was just for ME, no kids on the insurance plan at all.

So i got a better job and ditched the insurance.

Now we are self pay, and we hope that we don''t get really sick. On average I go to the Doctors 3 times a year at 50 dollars a go (same with the kids), yes it would have been nice to have insurance last year when i was very sick, but i didn't, you just have to weigh up the pro's and cons.
01/30/2010 08:37:37 AM · #8
Juliet, your case, working with children no problem. But you living in southern AZ know exactly where my problem is, you have seen it.
01/30/2010 08:40:33 AM · #9
I now live in Wales where the National Health Service works even better than in does in England as all prescriptions and medications are free for everyone (in england its free just for people on low income). In the UK the NHS certainly has problems but i wouldn't swap it for the world and that is generally the view of the large majority here i'd say. I just don't understand the US system and i certainly don't understand the opposition to reform (well, i do understand it as a complete and obvious campaign of scaremongering and lies by the right). There is such unbelievable hideous greed and evil in the west though and not much surprises me these days. I was reading a review of Michael Moores new film 'Capitalism' ...

'The film is certainly shocking. Early on, Moore sets out the meaning of "Dead Peasants" insurance. It turns out that Wal-Mart, a company with a revenue larger than any other in the world, bets on its workers dying, taking out life insurance policies on its 350,000 shop-floor workers without their knowledge or approval. When one of them dies, Wal-Mart claims on the policy. Not a cent of the payout, which sometimes runs to a $1m (£620,000) or more, goes to the family of the dead worker, often struggling with expensive funeral bills. Wal-Mart keeps the lot. If a worker dies, the company profits.

Wal-Mart is not alone. Moore talks to a woman whose husband died of brain cancer in 2008. He worked at a bank until it fired him because he was sick. But the bank retained a life insurance policy on the unfortunate man and cashed it in for $4.7m (£2.9m) when he died. There were gasps from the audience in a Washington cinema at that.'


to which i can only show a complete and utter lack of surprise.

Message edited by author 2010-01-30 08:40:50.
01/30/2010 08:53:03 AM · #10
Somewhat Alan, But here is the thing, I now no longer work, I am a single mum of 3 kids, I had cancer last year, so I am pre-existing. If I wanted to go back into health insurance, I wouldn't be able to afford it, so I kinda fall into your bracket of your first post on here

I have lived in England and I live here as well. So I can see both sides of the story.

But I think it is the same the whole world over. You are going to get some people that work the system however it is set up.

I worked as an EMT in the ER here at TMC and remember one particular instance, a man fell out of the bed of a pick up truck when it accelerated, He took his face off. He did not have insurance, so we did have to treat his injuries. But his nose was not on his face. But because he did not have insurance, we could not attach his nose back on, because it was deemed plastic surgery and aesthetics not a medical emergency. He went home with no nose. Where as in England, they would have sown it back on.

Now in the next bed we had a person that was just looking to score some drugs. But he came up with every illness in the book to get them, because everyone has to be treated for life threatening emergency's, every one of his complaints had to be looked at, xrays, blood etc, when all in fact he wanted was drugs.

Now also granted, this was (wow) 15 years ago, I am sure things have changed

01/30/2010 08:57:10 AM · #11
Originally I was for it.. After I read that Insurance companies and lobby's are all for National Health Care....HELL NOOOOOO.... IF THEY ARE FOR IT, IT CAN'T BE GOOD FOR ME
01/30/2010 08:59:03 AM · #12
What i was trying to say, there are going to be abusers of any system of any kind all over. I think that in America, it basically comes down to money. Drug companies make a lot of money, hence a cycle happens. Insurance companies make tons of money, Doctors have to pay out ridiculous amounts of malpractice insurance so they charge more, individual pharmacy stores vary in profits, i can buy a prescription for 2 dollars at Walmart, go to Walgreens and it is 40 bucks more for the same thing.
etc etc

The health system here, seems to be a money circle. Who is going to lose out the most if it went national, everyone bar the patient.

01/30/2010 09:07:29 AM · #13
I think this subject should have been brought up after the economy fixed and unemployment dropped from 10%... If people find work and earn money, insurance problem comes second... They are trying to push this now so jobless people wouldn't feel so bad not having jobs, since there is health insurance for them (I am included into 10% sadly)

Issues need to be fixed in order for US,

#1 economy, #2 Unemployment, #3 Health-care reform

They (Dems) go the other way, and that's why people are very angry. By the way, I really don't like Bush, I can't believe our other option was "Global Warming" Gore at that time :|
01/30/2010 09:43:18 AM · #14
As an American who has followed the issue quite closely, who currently has health insurance, and who is against the current proposed improvements, I would like to say it is not because I am against health care for everyone.

I have been without health insurance, at times in my life. In one instance I found a lump on my right arm. If was cancer, I might was well be dead; as I had no money to pay. So it did not get looked at for another year and a half till I had a job with benefits. Fortunately it was a "fatty something-or-other" that did not require surgery, and was not life threatening.

My objection to the bill is they way it has been pushed, and the back room deals made to push it through. If you live in Nebraska, your state will never pay for it. Because they needed the vote. If you have union "Cadillac" health insurance you will not be taxed until 2017. Because they needed the support. If you live in Louisiana your state will get assistance in paying for it. Because they needed the vote. If you are on Medicare (the government subsidy for seniors) 500 billion of the 1 Trillion dollars (half the cost) will come out of your health care program. Either we are all in this together or I want out. I want my special deal.

As a person who is within reasonable distance of being on Medicare, (5 more years) I do not want to see it destroyed. Medicare is mandatory for seniors unless you want to self pay.

I want to see universal availability of health care. I want to see everyone get the care they need. I don't want to see it done this way, by a bunch of arrogant legislators who are unwilling to listen to dissent, and accuse anyone who disagrees with being as mindless conservative mercenary tool of the insurance companies. Then in the next breath when the poles show how little support there is, say they can fix it in the future.

We have waited this long, we can take the time to get it right. And while I may not watch the proceedings, I want them visible to us all.
01/30/2010 09:58:38 AM · #15
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

I think this subject should have been brought up after the economy fixed and unemployment dropped from 10%... If people find work and earn money, insurance problem comes second... They are trying to push this now so jobless people wouldn't feel so bad not having jobs, since there is health insurance for them (I am included into 10% sadly)

Issues need to be fixed in order for US,

#1 economy, #2 Unemployment, #3 Health-care reform

They (Dems) go the other way, and that's why people are very angry. By the way, I really don't like Bush, I can't believe our other option was "Global Warming" Gore at that time :|


If the Dems have the same three top priorities, but just decide to tackle them in a different order, why should that make people so angry?

Some may argue that Health Care reform is fixing the economy. With expectations that Medicare be bankrupt within 10 years, the health care system needs to be reformed first, so that the cost of providing Medicare is affordable. Especially with the baby boom reaching Medicare age.
01/30/2010 10:13:52 AM · #16
I'd say it's because Americans are so opposed to anything they consider "socialism" (without even understanding what the word means), and most Americans are incapable of true logical thought. But that's just my impression.

And despite so many folks adamantly referring to the US as a "Christian Nation", god forbid they actually have to give up their toys to help those in need.

Did you see that we have stopped airlifting folks out of Haiti because someone had the audacity to ask who was paying for the care? *sigh*
01/30/2010 10:22:35 AM · #17
God forgive we question anything our government tells us. Follow the cows to slaughter “logical thought”..
01/30/2010 10:31:01 AM · #18
Originally posted by alans_world:

God forgive we question anything our government tells us. Follow the cows to slaughter “logical thought”..


Actually, we need to question *everything* our government tells us. And get the same old shills (who are the ones *we* hired to do a job, who then sell out to the biggest pocketbooks) out of office. Term limits. No special deals for legislators - make them utilize the same health and retirement plans they want to give the rest of us. Use Social Security funds for what it was originally intended for, and quit borrowing from it to pay for other programs, and giving money to all sorts of folks that never have (and never will) pay into the system.

Funny how some use the word "government" when what they mean is not actually the all inclusive government, but one or two groups that they happen to disagree with...
01/30/2010 10:37:42 AM · #19
Can I get some pre existing car insurance? I have a big dent in my fender. I did this last year and would like to have it fixed.

Message edited by author 2010-01-30 11:04:23.
01/30/2010 10:48:08 AM · #20
The root problem with health care system in this country is not the cost of health insurance. It's the cost of the care (treatment) itself due to greed, frivilous malpractice suits, and abuse of the government subsidized assistance programs already in place.

1) My 20 minute knee surgery billed a total of $20,000. That's ridiculous.

2) Some lawsuits are warranted, most are extreme and abusive which require doctors and hospitals to overcharge us to compensate for their legal defense and malpractice insurance.

3) There are doctors who prey on tenants with no next of kin at certain (and cooperative) nursing homes , so that they can manipulate their cases to become candidates for elective surgery so that these doctors can submit huge numbers of claims to medicare and/or medicade. My girlfriend who used to work as a nurse at one of these surgical centers was disgusted that many of these elderly patients had no idea why they were even there.

4) My girlfriend also worked at a hospital's psychiatric ward in which patients walked in and out of the facility through somewhat of a 'revolving door' based on when the government subsidies for their care ran out and when they could return to start a new claim on the patient. Upon leaving, the staff sometimes says things like "see you soon" or "come back next week".

The current health care reform proposals currently being debated would certainly widen the door for these types of abuses.

We should be scrutinizing, instead, ways of lower the costs of the actual treatment itself. Healthy people shouldn't have to pay exorbitant amounts of money for routine care. Insurance shouldn't be necessary to ensure reasonable care of one's health but should instead be available for the unexpected major illness.

This is what our focus should be on first: cost of health care, not health insurance.

edit for clarity

Message edited by author 2010-01-30 11:17:50.
01/30/2010 10:55:58 AM · #21
Originally posted by kenskid:

Can I get some pre existing car insurance? I have a big dent in my fender. I did this last year?


If everyone had universal car insurance from birth, this would never been an issue.
01/30/2010 11:02:04 AM · #22
Originally posted by kenskid:

Can I get some pre existing car insurance? I have a big dent in my fender. I did this last year?


As far as I know, it's illegal to drive without some form of insurance.
01/30/2010 11:06:57 AM · #23
So what? I don't have insurance now. I have a dent and want to buy some car insurance b/c I want my dent fixed. Why can't I do that? Car insurers are "for profit" scum. I demand that our congress make them sell me insurance NOW so I can have my old dent fixed.

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by kenskid:

Can I get some pre existing car insurance? I have a big dent in my fender. I did this last year?


As far as I know, it's illegal to drive without some form of insurance.
01/30/2010 11:25:11 AM · #24
HC is not priority of the people right now, it is the priority of Nancy and Reid.

But, I don't think anyone against a good HC reform, it's "how it was done so far" what pisses people off. We are not 3 year old kids who don't understand what do "we" need... Dems sure do act like we are 3 years old.

I have to bring back Bush here once again... I hated when he invaded Iraq... He used 9/11 as a reason instead of going after Saudis and Taliban. He was the starter of "spending" :((( His people who did not "see" the housing and banking trouble that caused all our jobs (almost) last year or two :(((

Remember everyone (US citizens)... We the People... not We the government.

By the way, those who don't know who Glenn Back is, try to watch one or two program of his... He does teach US history that I think everyone should aware of.

Message edited by author 2010-01-30 11:52:36.
01/30/2010 11:31:04 AM · #25
I don't think most of us are opposed to reform of our health care system. What we do oppose are closed door deals, loads of pork, giveaways, secrets and a headlong rush to get "something" done before we all find out what it is. We are, as Americans, "generally" opposed to socialism, as we feel it lets the government mandate things that should be our responsibilities, giving over private decisions to public officials whose main objective is keeping their jobs. It also involves spending public money on benefits the like of which lots of us would not approve.
I would like very much to see every citizen of this country covered. I don't want every citizen fleeced. I would like to see competition in insurance, mobility of insurance across state lines (this is a free country, no?), and some limits on malpractice awards that could bring down physician insurance costs, and therefore ours as well. I hate fat deals and crooked politicians of any party. I don't want any responsibility for freeloaders and cheaters and illegals.
I hope we can debate openly and honestly and someday arrive at equitable solutions. If there are any, they will be transparent, clean, and stand up to scrutiny under bright light.
Pages:   ...
Current Server Time: 10/23/2020 01:58:28 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2020 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 10/23/2020 01:58:28 AM EDT.