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01/06/2010 03:29:33 PM · #51
Originally posted by jmulvihill:

Apologies to ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/3102.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/3102.gif', '/') + 1) . ' alanfreed for stirring any SC angst.


There's no angst... just a good opportunity to illustrate the kinds of things that happen any time change is introduced :)
01/06/2010 03:34:03 PM · #52
Originally posted by pixelpig:

... The notion that PP is an effective crutch to compensate for poor photography skills sounds good only to those who hope it's true. The notion that PP somehow gives a shot an unfair advantage in competition is just silly. ...

Many times great PP skill is applied to very good photos, and yes frequently it's used to recover (or coverup/hide) flaws in an "ok" photo.

I just resurrected an old thread that I used to enjoy (should rekindle it), where high scoring shots were displayed with the original vs the final edited version. Pretty amazing what can be done in PP sometimes to what many might see as a "so-so" image originally.
01/06/2010 03:39:51 PM · #53
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

... You don't have to vote on images with heavy PP and you don't have to like them. ...

Actually, if you don't like them then you SHOULD vote on them and send a message. Otherwise only those that like it will vote it up and then it appears unrightly popular, which in turn starts a trend towards that perceived popular look/style. Vote on ALL entries, and vote according to your own personal likes/dislikes. IMO it's the best way to maintain an even keel around here.
01/06/2010 04:28:58 PM · #54
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

... You don't have to vote on images with heavy PP and you don't have to like them. ...

Actually, if you don't like them then you SHOULD vote on them and send a message. Otherwise only those that like it will vote it up and then it appears unrightly popular, which in turn starts a trend towards that perceived popular look/style. Vote on ALL entries, and vote according to your own personal likes/dislikes. IMO it's the best way to maintain an even keel around here.

You are absolutely correct and it was a poor choice of words on my part. I should have said that you don't have to vote high for images with heavy PP and you don't have to like them. I wouldn't vote a one to punish somebody if I thought the image was processed beyond my personal taste, but I do reserve those 9s and 10s for work that touches me rather than just being technically excellent.
01/06/2010 04:33:19 PM · #55
i'm amazing for that huge bone!
01/06/2010 05:24:11 PM · #56
Originally posted by Jac:

Basic editing is half the reason I'm here. You should learn to take pictures with your eyes and camera and not depend on software to enhance your images. I do basic in advanced all the time. Nobody notices. ;)


I had a top 10 finish in Rural Decay, an Advanced challenge, and did only Basic editing. My version of Advanced editing is pretty much Basic Editing + cloning or healing tool. That's pretty much it.

Frankly I'd like to see a lot more Minimal Editing/Straight from the Camera challenges, instead of one once a year or so. No pp whatsoever. I think Minimal calls for no pp except rotate, and no cropping. I would like to see crop and rotate, but no more than that.
01/06/2010 07:39:00 PM · #57
Originally posted by snaffles:

Originally posted by Jac:

Basic editing is half the reason I'm here. You should learn to take pictures with your eyes and camera and not depend on software to enhance your images. I do basic in advanced all the time. Nobody notices. ;)


I had a top 10 finish in Rural Decay, an Advanced challenge, and did only Basic editing. My version of Advanced editing is pretty much Basic Editing + cloning or healing tool. That's pretty much it.

Frankly I'd like to see a lot more Minimal Editing/Straight from the Camera challenges, instead of one once a year or so. No pp whatsoever. I think Minimal calls for no pp except rotate, and no cropping. I would like to see crop and rotate, but no more than that.


My 4th place finish in the Powerlines challenge was minimal. I sharpened it a bit and removed noise because I could, but the image wouldn't have suffered if I hadn't.

I've been here since Feb.2008 and I still haven't seen a minimal editing challenge. Come on Langdon, give us one. We're not asking for change, just a minimal editing challenge. Plz There may have been one during my 3 month, errr, absence. :)

ETA. Thanks Bear for your explanation about why Topaz is legal in basic editing.

Message edited by author 2010-01-06 19:40:22.
01/06/2010 08:47:49 PM · #58
Originally posted by pixelpig:

... The notion that PP is an effective crutch to compensate for poor photography skills sounds good only to those who hope it's true. The notion that PP somehow gives a shot an unfair advantage in competition is just silly. ...

You cannot fix a bad image in Photoshop. You still have to be a photographer.
01/06/2010 09:07:24 PM · #59
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by pixelpig:

... The notion that PP is an effective crutch to compensate for poor photography skills sounds good only to those who hope it's true. The notion that PP somehow gives a shot an unfair advantage in competition is just silly. ...

You cannot fix a bad image in Photoshop. You still have to be a photographer.

You can fix a less than stellar one however...

I just looked thru your portfolio looking for an image that I thought you posted (could've been someone else maybe) in a thread a couple months ago showing how much DPC has taught you and you were amazed at all of the "fixes" that you were able to pull off. Guy with a tractor and a building in the background... yes/no?
01/06/2010 09:12:23 PM · #60
Originally posted by Jac:



My 4th place finish in the Powerlines challenge was minimal. I sharpened it a bit and removed noise because I could, but the image wouldn't have suffered if I hadn't.



Ironic, ,my 3rd place image in the same challenge needed 3 exposures, HDR, B&W conversion, selective dodge & burn, cloning, sharpening and noise reduction to finish .014 higher than yours. I bet you had a lot more free time leading up to the challenge than I did! ;-)
01/06/2010 11:24:31 PM · #61
Originally posted by scarbrd:

Originally posted by Jac:



My 4th place finish in the Powerlines challenge was minimal. I sharpened it a bit and removed noise because I could, but the image wouldn't have suffered if I hadn't.



Ironic, ,my 3rd place image in the same challenge needed 3 exposures, HDR, B&W conversion, selective dodge & burn, cloning, sharpening and noise reduction to finish .014 higher than yours. I bet you had a lot more free time leading up to the challenge than I did! ;-)


Yes indeed. ;-) I worked on other shots too but ended up with my first choice being entered.
01/07/2010 06:46:47 AM · #62
Originally posted by pixelpig:

... The notion that PP is an effective crutch to compensate for poor photography skills sounds good only to those who hope it's true. The notion that PP somehow gives a shot an unfair advantage in competition is just silly. ...

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

You cannot fix a bad image in Photoshop. You still have to be a photographer.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

You can fix a less than stellar one however...

Well, of course! But if the focus is off, tghe composition is not right, you have totally blown out areas.......these are things you just cannot fix.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I just looked thru your portfolio looking for an image that I thought you posted (could've been someone else maybe) in a thread a couple months ago showing how much DPC has taught you and you were amazed at all of the "fixes" that you were able to pull off. Guy with a tractor and a building in the background... yes/no?

Dunno the particular image you mean......I clean out my portfolio from time to time, then get lazy and don't put ones back I should.

Yes, absolutely I have learned a ton about how to emphasize and improve the image quality of what I shoot, but a lot of that also has to do with being able to achieve what I saw in my mind's eye when I shot the image, too, not just
fixing" an image. I see things differently than they are to a certain extent, and PS helps me get there.

I guess I would have to say that sometimes you can get a silk purse out of a sow's ear with some creative PP work....../this is a pretty crappy image.

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So I honked all over it with Topaz, contrast, and just fiddled with it to give it a gritty, powerful look and it came out half decent, at least IMO....

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01/07/2010 06:51:54 AM · #63
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I guess I would have to say that sometimes you can get a silk purse out of a sow's ear with some creative PP work....../this is a pretty crappy image.

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So I honked all over it with Topaz, contrast, and just fiddled with it to give it a gritty, powerful look and it came out half decent, at least IMO....

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60000-64999/63398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_840669.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60000-64999/63398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_840669.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


I gotta disagree with you there. I don't think the original is "crappy" and I'm not sure the PP has actually improved it. To whatever extent the original is lacking in some peoples' eyes, it would be because it's not critically sharp, but for me that just makes it more vibrant and alive. The original could use some more contrast, sure, but I think you've overdone it with the PP on this one, especially with the hyper-saturated yellow... I'd dial it back a few notches if it were mine.

R.
01/07/2010 06:57:28 AM · #64
Advanced Editing produces Eyecandy, Eyecandy produces Web Traffic, Web Traffic produces Revenue. Revenue makes Langdon Happy.

Personally I think there should just be one set of editing rules. Somewhere between Basic and Advanced, Limit Topaz and HDR images to Free Study challenges only and maybe once a month offer a straight out of the camera challenge.

But I suspect too many people would grunt and groan about that. So in advance I regret even suggesting it.

01/07/2010 08:09:02 AM · #65
minimal! bring it on!
01/07/2010 08:14:49 AM · #66
Better???

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01/07/2010 08:17:11 AM · #67
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Better???

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I prefer the twilight zone topazed to death one myself. But then, I've been told I see things a bit differently than normal people do too. LOL! ;P
01/07/2010 08:32:44 AM · #68
I think this one looks much better Jeb. It looks more natural and doesn't have that plastic look like the one Bear commented on and it still makes your point about getting the silk purse out of the sow's ear.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Better???

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01/07/2010 08:43:50 AM · #69
I have always liked ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Kelli better'n you guys!!!
01/07/2010 09:12:24 AM · #70
Originally posted by Bugzeye:

Advanced Editing produces Eyecandy, Eyecandy produces Web Traffic, Web Traffic produces Revenue. Revenue makes Langdon Happy.

Yup. Eyecandy. Some of my highest scoring entries are pure eyecandy and not necessarily the ones I think are the best or that personally please me the most. They are the ones that the most voters agreed on.
01/07/2010 12:18:58 PM · #71
it's all relative and cyclical, would you give this shot an 8 or 9? I wouldn't:
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01/07/2010 12:21:09 PM · #72
Originally posted by smardaz:

it's all relative and cyclical, would you give this shot an 8 or 9? I wouldn't:
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In 2002 I probably would...
01/07/2010 12:45:54 PM · #73
Originally posted by Jac:


I've been here since Feb.2008 and I still haven't seen a minimal editing challenge. Come on Langdon, give us one. We're not asking for change, just a minimal editing challenge. P


The last minimal editing challenge was in September 2008, so it would be nice to have another.

September 2008 Long Exposure Minimal editing
01/07/2010 12:46:31 PM · #74
Originally posted by TrollMan:

Originally posted by smardaz:

it's all relative and cyclical, would you give this shot an 8 or 9? I wouldn't:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/4/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_106.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/4/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_106.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

In 2002 I probably would...


Yea, that shot is from one of the first challenges, i gather, so it's unfair to compare.
01/07/2010 02:11:59 PM · #75
One thing to consider is that with Minimal Editing compared to Basic Editing you would need to familiarize yourself with what many would consider to be otherwise useless parameters in the camera in order to get a high quality "straight from the camera" image.

For example, the Canon 40D has four creative controls that range from 1-7 in terms of strength for saturation, contrast, sharpening and hue. These are irrelevent if you shoot raw. But to compete in a minimal challenge you would be well advised to tweak these settings to your advantage. And then probably never touch them again.
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