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12/22/2009 12:21:01 PM · #1
There have been a number of recent threads discussing the attrition of strong/respected photographers from our site. These threads usually end poorly as the discussion turns to wanting more features or more participation from the SC. Rather than go down that path, I'm very curious to hear thoughts on where these photographers have gone? Are they just so successful they've become too busy? Have they moved on to knew communities? Have they outgrown the site and gone out in search of greater challenges?
12/22/2009 12:41:15 PM · #2
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

There have been a number of recent threads discussing the attrition of strong/respected photographers from our site. These threads usually end poorly as the discussion turns to wanting more features or more participation from the SC. Rather than go down that path, I'm very curious to hear thoughts on where these photographers have gone? Are they just so successful they've become too busy? Have they moved on to knew communities? Have they outgrown the site and gone out in search of greater challenges?


All of the above.

Manny Librodo
Pedro
Kiwiness
Heida
Joey
Grigrigirl
Dax
Ursula
Goodman
JPR...How could I forget him?
SherwinJames
boysetsfire
rscorp

That's my short list (or ones that immediately come to mind) I know where a few of them are but again, All of The Above"...

I assume after winning a pile of Ribbons it gets old. They aren't the types to generally enter the same images, over and over just for the sake of winning Ribbons. Personally, I think DPC is stuck in noob-land (not meant as a pejorative) where new comers are always impressed by waterdrops and bugs eyes etc. and that gets very old for many people, quickly...but not quick enough. So, the front page will always be dominated but the same stuff (more or less) where as people grow away from that and develop more unique or less commercial styles, their work isn't as readily accepted and they move on.

Message edited by author 2009-12-22 13:04:05.
12/22/2009 12:43:44 PM · #3
i miss ursula...

among others.


12/22/2009 01:01:35 PM · #4
I miss 31_F.gif silverfoxx the most. However, I get updates on my Facebook page, so am still able to see her incredible work.
12/22/2009 01:11:44 PM · #5
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I assume after winning a pile of Ribbons it gets old. They aren't the types to generally enter the same images, over and over just for the sake of winning Ribbons. Personally, I think DPC is stuck in noob-land (not meant as a pejorative) where new comers are always impressed by waterdrops and bugs eyes etc. and that gets very old for many people, quickly...but not quick enough. So, the front page will always be dominated but the same stuff (more or less) where as people grow away from that and develop more unique or less commercial styles, their work isn't as readily accepted and they move on.

Would some sort of more careful selection of challenges based on a tighter theme structure geared towards more advanced/experienced photogs be a consideration?

Maybe some sort of guidelines/descriptions that'd define a different genre entirely.

It could run concurrently with the Free Study, kind of an either/or so that no one would be slighted.

You get to pick your level of stringency as it relates to the monthly FS.
12/22/2009 01:11:49 PM · #6
This is not really on topic however...

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I assume after winning a pile of Ribbons it gets old. They aren't the types to generally enter the same images, over and over just for the sake of winning Ribbons. Personally, I think DPC is stuck in noob-land (not meant as a pejorative) where new comers are always impressed by waterdrops and bugs eyes etc. and that gets very old for many people, quickly...


This from the Help section under About DPC:

Originally posted by the help section:

DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed.


To me that is sort of a mission statement for the site. The mission of this site is to help you teach yourself to be a better photographer. A part of the learning process is imitating works already done. A student will always learn from a master. A part of learning is imitation of the masters work. So that is probably why the submitted content gets recycled so much... Imitation of great works is part of the learning process.

So once someone has reached a level of mastery, they can either seek a student to train or go find a greater master to imitate. Which leads back to the OP's question. Where have all the masters gone?
12/22/2009 01:17:04 PM · #7
Another great and one of my favs= 31.gif irae

I miss 21_F.gif ursula too!
12/22/2009 01:30:59 PM · #8
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I assume after winning a pile of Ribbons it gets old...


Would some sort of more careful selection of challenges based on a tighter theme structure geared towards more advanced/experienced photogs be a consideration?

Maybe some sort of guidelines/descriptions that'd define a different genre entirely.


Perhaps, but I just think competing just gets old and doesn't serve a purpose after a while...whether you've won Ribbons or not. I believe if the site provided a better home for unconventional, artistic expression and a less commercial, "rule of thirds" way of seeing, some folks would stay around longer. DPC is fine but it's not cutting edge...quite conservative, in fact. I mean, where do you go here after you've learned and explored the basics and wish to express yourself differently...without people telling you that you should have stuck with the basics?

Message edited by author 2009-12-22 13:31:58.
12/22/2009 01:38:07 PM · #9
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I assume after winning a pile of Ribbons it gets old...


Would some sort of more careful selection of challenges based on a tighter theme structure geared towards more advanced/experienced photogs be a consideration?

Maybe some sort of guidelines/descriptions that'd define a different genre entirely.


Perhaps, but I just think competing just gets old and doesn't serve a purpose after a while...whether you've won Ribbons or not. I believe if the site provided a better home for unconventional, artistic expression and a less commercial, "rule of thirds" way of seeing, some folks would stay around longer. DPC is fine but it's not cutting edge...quite conservative, in fact. I mean, where do you go here after you've learned and explored the basics and wish to express yourself differently...without people telling you that you should have stuck with the basics?


Perhaps this is exactly the problem. Perhaps DPC should never HAVE a part of the site that keeps people that no longer want to play the game, around. IMO, the people that stick around too long ARE the problem. They're the ones that get jaded and cynical and bitter and keep trying to force those around them to be like them, or play by their rules, or conform to their standards.

Perhaps DPC needs to be a revolving door type website, and, just maybe, it needs to always only be a site where people play the game, and only play the game.

Maybe we're making mountains out of molehills, and maybe were trying to force something where it shouldn't be forced?
12/22/2009 01:38:47 PM · #10
Perhaps it's time someone started the dpmasters site...
12/22/2009 01:43:40 PM · #11
Originally posted by K10DGuy:



Perhaps this is exactly the problem. Perhaps DPC should never HAVE a part of the site that keeps people that no longer want to play the game, around. IMO, the people that stick around too long ARE the problem...


Wow. That sounds like a request to leave...?
12/22/2009 01:49:20 PM · #12
21_F.gif ursula is a major player (photo screener) at 1x.com
12/22/2009 01:51:06 PM · #13
And then there is 31.gif DrJones. One of my all time faves at DPC. I don't know what happened but read in a post a few years back that one of his shots appeared in Playboy (he was very good at nudes). After that he was gone - zip! :(
12/22/2009 01:54:29 PM · #14
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:



Perhaps this is exactly the problem. Perhaps DPC should never HAVE a part of the site that keeps people that no longer want to play the game, around. IMO, the people that stick around too long ARE the problem...


Wow. That sounds like a request to leave...?


This is kind of what has been talked about in other threads. Can we not take things utterly out-of-context and overboard at least once in awhile? Please? Thank you.

What I'm saying is that I don't entirely think that DPC needs anything to conform to people that outgrow it. That kind of thing is simply a part of life. If you outgrow it, then you outgrow it, but what it is is perfectly good for the constant influx of people new to it. Sometimes, all we need is somewhere to play. This is a place for that. Once we start taking it too seriously, bad things happen.

Too many people are taking it way too seriously.

If that means finding new playgrounds, then it means finding new playgrounds, but if you're done with what it is, why sit around wishing it was something else?

It just doesn't make any sense to me.
12/22/2009 01:59:42 PM · #15
A pilgrim comes to a river. He builds a raft and crosses the river. This is the proper use of a raft.

If the pilgrim drags the raft with him forever, on the chance he will encounter a river, this is an improper use of the raft, and an unnecessary burden for the pilgrim.

People come, people go. It is the way of things. For DPC to try to change to keep them here is silly, and could in and of itself change the very usefulness that brought them here to begin with, or the usefulness that helped them grow beyond it.

12/22/2009 02:06:59 PM · #16
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

What I'm saying is that I.../-/... take things utterly out-of-context and overboard

Say what now? :P
12/22/2009 03:02:41 PM · #17
Originally posted by chromeydome:

A pilgrim comes to a river. He builds a raft and crosses the river. This is the proper use of a raft.

If the pilgrim drags the raft with him forever, on the chance he will encounter a river, this is an improper use of the raft, and an unnecessary burden for the pilgrim.

People come, people go. It is the way of things. For DPC to try to change to keep them here is silly, and could in and of itself change the very usefulness that brought them here to begin with, or the usefulness that helped them grow beyond it.


Nice little allegory. -I'd love to see some niche reserved here for the more artistically bent photographer, but, like K10 and chromey, do not have much faith in the practicality of combining conflicting interests under a single roof.
12/22/2009 03:25:31 PM · #18
Maybe we need a dpchallenge1x.com sort of hybrid. :P
12/22/2009 03:28:36 PM · #19
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by pawdrix:



Wow. That sounds like a request to leave...?


This is kind of what has been talked about in other threads. Can we not take things utterly out-of-context and overboard at least once in awhile? Please? Thank you.

What I'm saying is that I don't entirely think that DPC needs anything to conform to people that outgrow it.


Well, 21.gif Nusbaum asked and I answered but if I have any agenda I push it as food for thought. I'm not sure what I expect by stating my opinions but I assume some people feel the same way and they know they're not alone.

Honestly though, I do think I have overstayed my welcome. So, you are correct in saying so.

I will say that I think the front page looks pretty weak. That is, I only like one image and I doubt it's impressing many first time viewers. I also believe that the people who take this stuff seriously and are on a track to earn a few dollars, are the ones driving the image quality of the site for the most part so, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss their energy or quickly trade it for those who are here to have a little fun.

Message edited by author 2009-12-22 15:30:46.
12/22/2009 03:37:50 PM · #20
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by pawdrix:



Wow. That sounds like a request to leave...?


This is kind of what has been talked about in other threads. Can we not take things utterly out-of-context and overboard at least once in awhile? Please? Thank you.

What I'm saying is that I don't entirely think that DPC needs anything to conform to people that outgrow it.


Well, 21.gif Nusbaum asked and I answered but if I have any agenda I push it as food for thought. I'm not sure what I expect by stating my opinions but I assume some people feel the same way and they know they're not alone.

Honestly though, I do think I have overstayed my welcome. So, you are correct in saying so.

I will say that I think the front page looks pretty weak. That is, I only like one image and I doubt it's impressing many first time viewers. I also believe that the people who take this stuff seriously and are on a track to earn a few dollars, are the ones driving the image quality of the site for the most part so, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss their energy or quickly trade it for those who are here to have a little fun.


And such is just the subjective kind of thing that will always be contentious, no? Some weeks are weaker than others for the front page, and it's all relative to the viewer anyway. You like one, I like three, someone else might like all 9, who's to say?

What some of us mean by 'quality', we're really just saying 'what I like', and masking our own interests and preferences under some kind of artificial and ever-changing artistic guideline that people can only ever 'know when I see it'. heh.

I'm not above lashing out at stuff I believe is stale and unimaginative, pete knows, but I try to do it on an individual scale, and put my voice out there, and then live and let live. But c'est la vie either way, I suppose.

I'm thinking that some kind of 'sister' site, would perhaps be a really fine idea. Just need someone with the wherewithal to put up the cajones to get it going. Unfortunately, for the most part, we're all idea people, not action people. Where are all the action people?
12/22/2009 03:49:18 PM · #21
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

What some of us mean by 'quality', we're really just saying 'what I like', and masking our own interests and preferences under some kind of artificial and ever-changing artistic guideline that people can only ever 'know when I see it'. heh.

Nah. There's some real detritus out there, and everyone knows it when they see it. Also, I think the current fad of finding the miraculously artful in the dog's breakfast is duplicitous and self-serving, but I agree, c'est la vie.

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

I'm thinking that some kind of 'sister' site, would perhaps be a really fine idea. Just need someone with the wherewithal to put up the cajones to get it going. Unfortunately, for the most part, we're all idea people, not action people. Where are all the action people?

I'd do it. I have the wherewithal and the cajones, and the resources, but I think this kind of project swallows a person's life, and I've got other things to do. So I guess I don't have the cajones. You in, if I start?
12/22/2009 03:51:04 PM · #22
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

What some of us mean by 'quality', we're really just saying 'what I like', and masking our own interests and preferences under some kind of artificial and ever-changing artistic guideline that people can only ever 'know when I see it'. heh.

Nah. There's some real detritus out there, and everyone knows it when they see it. Also, I think the current fad of finding the miraculously artful in the dog's breakfast is duplicitous and self-serving, but I agree, c'est la vie.

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

I'm thinking that some kind of 'sister' site, would perhaps be a really fine idea. Just need someone with the wherewithal to put up the cajones to get it going. Unfortunately, for the most part, we're all idea people, not action people. Where are all the action people?

I'd do it. I have the wherewithal and the cajones, and the resources, but I think this kind of project swallows a person's life, and I've got other things to do. So I guess I don't have the cajones. You in, if I start?


I grouped myself in with the idea people. I have the time, but not the attention span.
12/22/2009 03:53:21 PM · #23
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Where are all the action people?

Ummm... they left DPC?
12/22/2009 03:54:31 PM · #24
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Where are all the action people?

Ummm... they left DPC?


Hahaha, touche.
12/22/2009 05:08:42 PM · #25
The whole point of this site was to have a venue for people to learn how to use the then new digital camera technology in a fun, competitive way. It was built to become obsolete. So when you learn as much as you can here, you move on. I have learned a lot here, but less and less in the recent two years. Even though I submitted little here, compared to some, I voted more than many and as a result learned a lot in seeing what was being submitted and reading threads like that one lead by bear_music on landscape photography. Digital still camera technology has matured and many of the users have become quite familiar with the hardware and software involved. The site has evolved a little over time. But one learns and moves on, as K10DGuy said above. How about DHDVchallenge.com. Anyone got a Red One to lend me? ;-)
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