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12/19/2009 05:37:20 AM · #151 |
| DO any of the SC know if Langdon has had a read of this thread? Just wondered if he had made any comments on it. |
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12/19/2009 07:42:00 AM · #152 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
So if you figure 1900 or so people, that's $47,500 before expenses— a respectable number, but only a modest part time income for the admins. Nobody's getting rich here. |
That's e33k - Which would be considered a reasonable enough gross salary for one person to live on. Here in Ireland anyway. I suppose it depends on your lifestyle.
Also, there's probably a small revenue from the adwords to add on to that.
However, I'd assume that hosting costs take away a big chunk of that.
pls ignore, I should've read the whole thread first.
Message edited by author 2009-12-19 07:44:59. |
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12/19/2009 08:03:44 AM · #153 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by albc28:
Simms clearly stated that SC doesn't participate...SC simply showed evidence otherwise. There are posts that SC doesn't put in new challenges...they showed otherwise. Yet no matter what they say you don't want to hear it. It's almost like people are just searching for someone to point the finger at.
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I'll pull you on that one.. I said SOME don't seem to have any interest in submitting to challenges or even their portfolios, they seem to ignore the whole photography thing, but these are the people who decide on rule changes - why should they be allowed to make changes to rules when they wont ever have to try and fit one of their photos into the ruleset.. thats my annoyance. It wasn't a blanket statement about SC - to even suggest Scalvert, Alan, General and a couple of others dont participant would be a very foolhardy statement to make, you only need to look at their stats, but if we look at Frisca (last challenge entry June 2007), Manic (only ever voted on 2000 images) etc. when did they last enter a challenge where they had to adhere to the ruleset they helped put together. Thats my bugbear. Stick someone like DrAchoo or Bear_Music in there - I am not a massive fan of Bear but I think he would make an outstanding SC member.
People may look at my stats and say "well you have only entered 67 challenge, you have only ever cast 12000 votes", maybe so - but I am not SC, I am not telling everyone else what rules they need to stick to and I am not casting judgement on potential DQs.
A lot of you know me, and you know I dont care if you tear a strip off me in these here forums, I come bouncing back - a lot of you know me in real-life, and you know I am not a malicious or nasty person just out to claim scalps. I am a very passionate and fiery person who just likes to speak his mind once in a while. |
I don't think the SC should be forced to do what "exemplary" members do at all. They're SC in order to enforce rules, nothing else. Aside from that, they're regular members. Telling them to participate more is like telling a casino security guard to play the slots some more. Some will play the slots, some will play blackjack, some think gambling is a sin. Doesn't mean they can't do their job in the casino. Are they more likely to play the slots if they're there every day? Yes. Do they have to? No! |
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12/19/2009 08:58:24 AM · #154 |
Originally posted by george917:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by albc28:
Simms clearly stated that SC doesn't participate...SC simply showed evidence otherwise. There are posts that SC doesn't put in new challenges...they showed otherwise. Yet no matter what they say you don't want to hear it. It's almost like people are just searching for someone to point the finger at.
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I'll pull you on that one.. I said SOME don't seem to have any interest in submitting to challenges or even their portfolios, they seem to ignore the whole photography thing, but these are the people who decide on rule changes - why should they be allowed to make changes to rules when they wont ever have to try and fit one of their photos into the ruleset.. thats my annoyance. It wasn't a blanket statement about SC - to even suggest Scalvert, Alan, General and a couple of others dont participant would be a very foolhardy statement to make, you only need to look at their stats, but if we look at Frisca (last challenge entry June 2007), Manic (only ever voted on 2000 images) etc. when did they last enter a challenge where they had to adhere to the ruleset they helped put together. Thats my bugbear. Stick someone like DrAchoo or Bear_Music in there - I am not a massive fan of Bear but I think he would make an outstanding SC member.
People may look at my stats and say "well you have only entered 67 challenge, you have only ever cast 12000 votes", maybe so - but I am not SC, I am not telling everyone else what rules they need to stick to and I am not casting judgement on potential DQs.
A lot of you know me, and you know I dont care if you tear a strip off me in these here forums, I come bouncing back - a lot of you know me in real-life, and you know I am not a malicious or nasty person just out to claim scalps. I am a very passionate and fiery person who just likes to speak his mind once in a while. |
I don't think the SC should be forced to do what "exemplary" members do at all. They're SC in order to enforce rules, nothing else. Aside from that, they're regular members. Telling them to participate more is like telling a casino security guard to play the slots some more. Some will play the slots, some will play blackjack, some think gambling is a sin. Doesn't mean they can't do their job in the casino. Are they more likely to play the slots if they're there every day? Yes. Do they have to? No! |
LOL, probably the funniest comparison you could of wrote, but just so so wrong.
So casino security guards set the rules of the casino they work in? But in so many other ways you are way off the mark with this point.
Thanks for the giggle. I reckon the SC will disagree with you on this one as well.
Message edited by author 2009-12-19 08:59:12. |
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12/19/2009 09:24:05 AM · #155 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
If you want comments, create the kind of images that elicit comments.
If you want help creating those kinds of images, ask for it.
If you want to know what people think about your image, ask them, don't just submit an image to a challenge and expect comments and suggestions on how to make your image get 10's. |
I'm not sure if this was directed to me or not, but I'll answer in case it was. I don't just expect comments & suggestion on how to get a 10. I could care less about scores for the most part. Of course I'm happy when I do well, but it's not that important. What's important is that if I'm going to be a member of a site, I have someplace that I can actually put stuff that I like to do and get feedback on it. That's my point. |
It wasn't directed at you specifically, no. However since you replied, do you think that challenges are the best place to put your images for feedback? Why do you enter challenges? |
I enter challenges for fun. I definitely don't think challenges are the best place for feedback. Photography is not my profession and I don't intend to open a studio in the future or shoot weddings or whatever. Photography is a fun form of self expression. An outlet. I may not be the best at it, but it works for me. As someone said somewhere in this mishmash of complaints, we are not all at the same level. And to answer your next post, I don't ask for feedback on specific pictures because of the way some people respond. It's not that I'm looking for praise, it's that I don't really know how to respond to the snarkiness of some replies. Some people here really do look down their noses at others. Besides, in a side challenge I don't have to beg for comments. They just happen because the people that are involved in it are all there for the same reasons. |
I haven't seen "snarkiness" in the Individual Photo Discussion thread... Sometimes people do leave such comments in challenges, but if a user is so thin-skinned, they really shouldn't post them someplace where people can comment. Let me ask you another question; Do you want to improve your photography, learn more or are you happy with your work as is and it's simply your "outlet". |
If you haven't seen snarkiness, then you haven't looked at some of those threads. I'm not saying those are the only replies. And I don't consider myself thin skinned, but some comments simply are not necessary. To answer you question, yes, I'm always looking to improve. But I faced the fact that I'm missing that creative "spark" that you need to win a challenge a long time ago. I lack that imagination gene. That is why I enjoy side challenges so much. I don't get many comments during challenges. I know I can take a picture that people will love, or at the very least like, but not on demand. And if I ever do win a ribbon it will be by sheer luck. |
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12/19/2009 09:58:53 AM · #156 |
Originally posted by albc28:
I guess my confusion lies in what is a side challenge....
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I highly recommend you try a side Challenge and THEN figure out what their value is. I can tell you they are probably the best way to learn anything on this site because people don't just dabble for a day/week but really dig in and really explore. The members can also judge the work in proper context, knowing who the photographer is their goals, style, limitations and the comments probably carry more weight than any words left on any one-shot Challenge entry.
 Alanfreed - As for people complaining about changes. Some people are simply buttheads and you can easily separate and ignore the stupid stuff from the reasonable. I think the customized viewing is interesting although I wonder how a black background (which is so much nicer) would affect a vote if people were viewing on gray at the same time?
One In 7 Billion? What a wonderful idea. I was surpised that idea was all but ignored. Not by the SC but by the site members. Yanko did list a few other ideas in this thread that were great and haven't come about but I can't figure out why.
As a guy that's see enough bug eyes, waterdrops etc. to last ten people, ten lifetimes I also wish the Challenges had more bite. Whether were talking about "seasoned photographers" or folks that have been around a while a lot of the Challenges seem so monolithic and gear towards the same images over and over. I think whoever is choosing the topics could dig a lot deeper and play themes that encourage some deeper thought or study. And I mean in a meaningful way...not just lip service for a pop or two but to sway us away from what's become so common and in my mind wickedly boring.
All for now...
Message edited by author 2009-12-19 10:00:49. |
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12/19/2009 09:59:12 AM · #157 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by george917:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by albc28:
Simms clearly stated that SC doesn't participate...SC simply showed evidence otherwise. There are posts that SC doesn't put in new challenges...they showed otherwise. Yet no matter what they say you don't want to hear it. It's almost like people are just searching for someone to point the finger at.
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I'll pull you on that one.. I said SOME don't seem to have any interest in submitting to challenges or even their portfolios, they seem to ignore the whole photography thing, but these are the people who decide on rule changes - why should they be allowed to make changes to rules when they wont ever have to try and fit one of their photos into the ruleset.. thats my annoyance. It wasn't a blanket statement about SC - to even suggest Scalvert, Alan, General and a couple of others dont participant would be a very foolhardy statement to make, you only need to look at their stats, but if we look at Frisca (last challenge entry June 2007), Manic (only ever voted on 2000 images) etc. when did they last enter a challenge where they had to adhere to the ruleset they helped put together. Thats my bugbear. Stick someone like DrAchoo or Bear_Music in there - I am not a massive fan of Bear but I think he would make an outstanding SC member.
People may look at my stats and say "well you have only entered 67 challenge, you have only ever cast 12000 votes", maybe so - but I am not SC, I am not telling everyone else what rules they need to stick to and I am not casting judgement on potential DQs.
A lot of you know me, and you know I dont care if you tear a strip off me in these here forums, I come bouncing back - a lot of you know me in real-life, and you know I am not a malicious or nasty person just out to claim scalps. I am a very passionate and fiery person who just likes to speak his mind once in a while. |
I don't think the SC should be forced to do what "exemplary" members do at all. They're SC in order to enforce rules, nothing else. Aside from that, they're regular members. Telling them to participate more is like telling a casino security guard to play the slots some more. Some will play the slots, some will play blackjack, some think gambling is a sin. Doesn't mean they can't do their job in the casino. Are they more likely to play the slots if they're there every day? Yes. Do they have to? No! |
LOL, probably the funniest comparison you could of wrote, but just so so wrong.
So casino security guards set the rules of the casino they work in? But in so many other ways you are way off the mark with this point.
Thanks for the giggle. I reckon the SC will disagree with you on this one as well. |
Well THAT's not condescending. Giggle? Please. It's a simple comparison - people that work somewhere don't have to do what the visitors do. Casino employees don't have to play the slots, cops at the beach don't have to like the beach, people that work on golf courses don't have to play golf... The SC doesn't have to set an example for what members should DO on the site, but they should set an example for how members should conduct themselves. So let's stop telling the SC to act more like the "best" members, just to conduct themselves properly. And they have done nothing but that in this thread; I think we could all show a bit more respect.
Message edited by author 2009-12-19 10:02:29. |
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12/19/2009 10:14:39 AM · #158 |
Three Techniques was good start. It produced a provocative thread or two and some nice images in the end. I did have two problems...
Bur, Bokeh, Shallow DOF and Soft Focus are not exactly the same thing but so, so closely related and offering 18 techniques to choose from, watered thing down a bit. I'd love to see this run again in the near future or some variation on the basic theme BUT try 5 techniques, don't make them mind boggling to combine...like, avoid a wrench in the works so, the entrants can focus on good imagery, not a bizarre puzzle. |
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12/19/2009 10:20:12 AM · #159 |
Originally posted by george917:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by george917:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by albc28:
Simms clearly stated that SC doesn't participate...SC simply showed evidence otherwise. There are posts that SC doesn't put in new challenges...they showed otherwise. Yet no matter what they say you don't want to hear it. It's almost like people are just searching for someone to point the finger at.
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I'll pull you on that one.. I said SOME don't seem to have any interest in submitting to challenges or even their portfolios, they seem to ignore the whole photography thing, but these are the people who decide on rule changes - why should they be allowed to make changes to rules when they wont ever have to try and fit one of their photos into the ruleset.. thats my annoyance. It wasn't a blanket statement about SC - to even suggest Scalvert, Alan, General and a couple of others dont participant would be a very foolhardy statement to make, you only need to look at their stats, but if we look at Frisca (last challenge entry June 2007), Manic (only ever voted on 2000 images) etc. when did they last enter a challenge where they had to adhere to the ruleset they helped put together. Thats my bugbear. Stick someone like DrAchoo or Bear_Music in there - I am not a massive fan of Bear but I think he would make an outstanding SC member.
People may look at my stats and say "well you have only entered 67 challenge, you have only ever cast 12000 votes", maybe so - but I am not SC, I am not telling everyone else what rules they need to stick to and I am not casting judgement on potential DQs.
A lot of you know me, and you know I dont care if you tear a strip off me in these here forums, I come bouncing back - a lot of you know me in real-life, and you know I am not a malicious or nasty person just out to claim scalps. I am a very passionate and fiery person who just likes to speak his mind once in a while. |
I don't think the SC should be forced to do what "exemplary" members do at all. They're SC in order to enforce rules, nothing else. Aside from that, they're regular members. Telling them to participate more is like telling a casino security guard to play the slots some more. Some will play the slots, some will play blackjack, some think gambling is a sin. Doesn't mean they can't do their job in the casino. Are they more likely to play the slots if they're there every day? Yes. Do they have to? No! |
LOL, probably the funniest comparison you could of wrote, but just so so wrong.
So casino security guards set the rules of the casino they work in? But in so many other ways you are way off the mark with this point.
Thanks for the giggle. I reckon the SC will disagree with you on this one as well. |
Well THAT's not condescending. Giggle? Please. It's a simple comparison - people that work somewhere don't have to do what the visitors do. Casino employees don't have to play the slots, cops at the beach don't have to like the beach, people that work on golf courses don't have to play golf... The SC doesn't have to set an example for what members should DO on the site, but they should set an example for how members should conduct themselves. So let's stop telling the SC to act more like the "best" members, just to conduct themselves properly. And they have done nothing but that in this thread; I think we could all show a bit more respect. |
But dont you see - security guards at a casino are there as a job - they applied for the job and for whatever reason they got it, although they would of been just as happy being a secuirty guard at a different place..people who work at Golf Clubs, they may not be interested in golf, but they wanted the job as it helps pay the bills.. now the SC were selected early on (with some additions) due to their love and in some cases, knowledge of photography - thats what made them seek out this site in the first place - they didnt trawl the internet looking for any site that would have them - they wanted to join a photography site becuase they enjoyed taking photos...
can you see it yet?
Message edited by author 2009-12-19 10:20:47. |
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12/19/2009 10:21:42 AM · #160 |
Having only one challenge per week has been mentioned several times. However, if there is only one challenge and I can enter it as a registered user the only benefit I get from being a member is portfolio space. I would have no problem with one open challenge with basic editing and one member challenge with advanced editing. My membership then allows me to enter 2 challenges a week and use more editing tools.
I gave my ideas on what I would like to see as far as challenges in the What do you want from DPC thread, but since the rules of that thread are no discussions I decided to post my opinion here. |
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12/19/2009 10:27:44 AM · #161 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Ah yes one more place for my ideas and suggestions to wither and die. Been waiting since 2006 for my first challenge suggestion to get picked so what hope is there for a site modification? |
Becuase you gain nothing by not trying and you may gain something my trying |
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12/19/2009 11:45:43 AM · #162 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by albc28:
I guess my confusion lies in what is a side challenge....
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I highly recommend you try a side Challenge and THEN figure out what their value is. I can tell you they are probably the best way to learn anything on this site because people don't just dabble for a day/week but really dig in and really explore. The members can also judge the work in proper context, knowing who the photographer is their goals, style, limitations and the comments probably carry more weight than any words left on any one-shot Challenge entry.
As a guy that's see enough bug eyes, waterdrops etc. to last ten people, ten lifetimes I also wish the Challenges had more bite. Whether were talking about "seasoned photographers" or folks that have been around a while a lot of the Challenges seem so monolithic and gear towards the same images over and over. I think whoever is choosing the topics could dig a lot deeper and play themes that encourage some deeper thought or study. And I mean in a meaningful way...not just lip service for a pop or two but to sway us away from what's become so common and in my mind wickedly boring.
All for now... |
I actually have tried a couple of side challenges. I didn't receive many comments other than "good shot" "nice shot" The standard comments that I can receive in a challenge...at least with the challenge I would get a vote to see how the users who didn't comment, thought of it. And ever side challenge I entered required me to "sign up" which is why you have a list of people who signed up at the beginning of each of those threads. I don't see any of those threads stating to list your goals or what you were going for and many times its just a picture being posted. I've often found them to be less advantageous. |
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12/19/2009 12:03:39 PM · #163 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Originally posted by albc28:
I guess my confusion lies in what is a side challenge....
To me I see a side challenge as someone coming up with a challenge idea, a group of people entering...and then they all comment on the photo all because they don't want to enter the challenges the site comes up with.
DPC challenges are the site coming up with challenges...people enter, vote and comment on the photos....
Here is how I'm looking at it....people are complaining that there are no new challenges being presented...maybe because people don't suggest them as challenges but decide to do them as side challenges instead. People complain because of the low number of challenge entries...maybe because people are entering side challenges instead. people are complaining that there aren't enough comments or votes...maybe because people are entering side challenges instead. If all that effort was put into the challenges the site presented then both sides would be satisfied. |
Perhaps "side challenge" is the wrong term to use - they are more like "side workshops" if you will. As a for instance, Lensbaby shots are not necessarily to the taste of the masses, but there are a handful of folks who do enjoy them. So on occasion there are Lensbaby side "workshops" where those who like them can share their work, get feedback, hints, etc. Same for overlays. Those aren't even allowed under DPC rules, but some people really like editing with them - hence, a workshop! So think of them as workshops, not challenges. No one votes, no "entering", no one gets any ribbons; people just learn from each other, enjoy a bit of comraderie, and enjoy sharing a few photographs. |
Now that's different and that I would like to see. If you read my first post in this thread I mentioned how Cindi had a thread where she described different portrait techniques and you would go and shoot portraits and post them and she would comment on the photos. It was a complete workshop. She gave lessons and really worked hard on that thread. Every week or so she'd give another lesson, post an example and have people go and shoot and work on that technique (while not forgetting the others). She didn't require you to enter. There weren't a list of names in the beginning of the thread to tell you who was in it. It didn't ask for you to just post a picture...it was a thread that was a complete tutorial. And Cindi would post her comments on almost all the photos and used some examples to explain the techniques.
If they were run like that, then I'd be all for it. But as they are now, you don't get a tutorial. You hardly get anyone telling you how you can improve a shot or what you did wrong in a shot. And anyone out there looking for 100 comments that say "good shot" is just looking for an ego stroke. These "side challenges" should be more lessons. Teaching those who don't know how to do them or looking to improve. It would be great if the overlays challenge was a tutorial on how to do overlays..and the OP ran it as a tutorial...sometimes specifically calling out a photo and giving examples of how to improve on the overlay.
Where is Cindi...I wish she were here to 1) post her thread from years back (if it still exists) and 2) give an idea of what she was doing when she started that thread. |
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12/19/2009 12:24:04 PM · #164 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Originally posted by albc28:
I guess my confusion lies in what is a side challenge....
To me I see a side challenge as someone coming up with a challenge idea, a group of people entering...and then they all comment on the photo all because they don't want to enter the challenges the site comes up with.
DPC challenges are the site coming up with challenges...people enter, vote and comment on the photos....
Here is how I'm looking at it....people are complaining that there are no new challenges being presented...maybe because people don't suggest them as challenges but decide to do them as side challenges instead. People complain because of the low number of challenge entries...maybe because people are entering side challenges instead. people are complaining that there aren't enough comments or votes...maybe because people are entering side challenges instead. If all that effort was put into the challenges the site presented then both sides would be satisfied. |
Perhaps "side challenge" is the wrong term to use - they are more like "side workshops" if you will. As a for instance, Lensbaby shots are not necessarily to the taste of the masses, but there are a handful of folks who do enjoy them. So on occasion there are Lensbaby side "workshops" where those who like them can share their work, get feedback, hints, etc. Same for overlays. Those aren't even allowed under DPC rules, but some people really like editing with them - hence, a workshop! So think of them as workshops, not challenges. No one votes, no "entering", no one gets any ribbons; people just learn from each other, enjoy a bit of comraderie, and enjoy sharing a few photographs. |
Now that's different and that I would like to see. If you read my first post in this thread I mentioned how Cindi had a thread where she described different portrait techniques and you would go and shoot portraits and post them and she would comment on the photos. It was a complete workshop. She gave lessons and really worked hard on that thread. Every week or so she'd give another lesson, post an example and have people go and shoot and work on that technique (while not forgetting the others). She didn't require you to enter. There weren't a list of names in the beginning of the thread to tell you who was in it. It didn't ask for you to just post a picture...it was a thread that was a complete tutorial. And Cindi would post her comments on almost all the photos and used some examples to explain the techniques.
If they were run like that, then I'd be all for it. But as they are now, you don't get a tutorial. You hardly get anyone telling you how you can improve a shot or what you did wrong in a shot. And anyone out there looking for 100 comments that say "good shot" is just looking for an ego stroke. These "side challenges" should be more lessons. Teaching those who don't know how to do them or looking to improve. It would be great if the overlays challenge was a tutorial on how to do overlays..and the OP ran it as a tutorial...sometimes specifically calling out a photo and giving examples of how to improve on the overlay.
Where is Cindi...I wish she were here to 1) post her thread from years back (if it still exists) and 2) give an idea of what she was doing when she started that thread. |
I agree and disagree.... yet again....
You know there is room for everything. I am still waiting for your reply to my previous post.
I agree, 'Workshop' type threads are fantastic. If people have time for them and willingness to do them I will never say no to them.
However, a 'CHALLENGE' is also in desire.
Since you seem to be confused let me explain my feelings on a 'side' challenge vs a DPC challenge.
DPC challenge is a weekly challenge. One/Twice/Three times a week now DPC posts a challenge topic. You submit, the community votes and your image is rated by the community of voters.
Side Challenge is a monthly challenge. (number of topics may vary here because of user creation) However, a Side Challenge will run for a full month. Averaging 30 days of photos. Self Portraits, Self portraits with a theme, Forks, Black/White, Whatever. Now there are several reasons to enter a side challenge. 1 being there is no voting so there is no hurt feelings that your image did not do as well as you hoped it would. Second it forces the user to pick up the camera every day for those 30 days and take a picture. I myself have allowed months of dust to form on my camera at times. Without reason to pick it up it will sit. Third, challenge, determination, will power, it takes courage, strength and will to pick up that camera every day for 30 consecutive days. Specially when it is ontop of the rest of your life. Try 366 consecutive self portraits, that is a challenge that will test your might.
Maybe some of the 'sides' as I said before should not be considered side challenges but image threads. Because there really is no challenge to them other then posting.
However, for me, I do believe when I host a challenge I comment on each image, more then good shot. Unless that is absolutely all I can say. But I cannot speak for everyone. But I can repeat myself... you get what you give.
To me, you seem to no understand that no everyone here is an expert, or I should say that perhaps a group of users get together, none of which are experts or professionals or even know what the hell they are doing. Simple lighting basics becomes a challenge. So this group learns together in a side challenge, what works what doesn't.
Or, they do it for fun, to break the monotony of life, of regularity. Try my 30 Forking Days challenge. See how long you last and see what you get from it. Try a challenge. You say you did and you got nothing out of it. Question is, was it a challenge or was it just an image thread? Did you ask for stronger more filled out critiques or did you just let it go? How much help are you asking for? What are you asking for? What do you want?
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12/19/2009 12:50:19 PM · #165 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Originally posted by albc28:
I think the side challenges should be eliminated and people will be forced or obligated to step out of their comfort zone and work for the challenges that are presented.
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You think taking 30 photos 1/day consecutively of a FORK is a comfort zone? Man you have some strange comfort zones. It was a challenge and personally, I think certain side challenges should remain, while others... should not be considered 'side challenges' but just a topic to post images in.
Side challenges can be way more beneficial then you think. Specially when the participants really participate and comment on images and communicate with each other and learn.
I was actually thinking of doing the 30 Forking Days part 2 side challenge. Spoon! Now wouldn't that be fun? I think so. What about another self portrait side challenge, those are always fun and always a huge learning experience for many people considering capturing a self portrait is one of the most difficult things for a lot of people.
To force people to be or feel obligated to only do what challenge is posted.... I would be gone for good as I am sure others would be as well. |
You are right I did miss this one. So 30 days of forks is a difficult side challenge. It does take a lot of work to be imaginative...but that doesn't make the comments any better. So you get comments like "I never thought of that" "i like that idea"...you still have a list of people who sign up for it. Not all side challenges are per month. There are just image threads that I get nothing out of.
There was a point on this site where there were no side challenges and if there were there were very few of them....and the site grew with more members. |
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12/19/2009 12:58:26 PM · #166 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
I agree and disagree.... yet again....
You know there is room for everything. I am still waiting for your reply to my previous post.
I agree, 'Workshop' type threads are fantastic. If people have time for them and willingness to do them I will never say no to them.
However, a 'CHALLENGE' is also in desire.
Since you seem to be confused let me explain my feelings on a 'side' challenge vs a DPC challenge.
DPC challenge is a weekly challenge. One/Twice/Three times a week now DPC posts a challenge topic. You submit, the community votes and your image is rated by the community of voters.
Side Challenge is a monthly challenge. (number of topics may vary here because of user creation) However, a Side Challenge will run for a full month. Averaging 30 days of photos. Self Portraits, Self portraits with a theme, Forks, Black/White, Whatever. Now there are several reasons to enter a side challenge. 1 being there is no voting so there is no hurt feelings that your image did not do as well as you hoped it would. Second it forces the user to pick up the camera every day for those 30 days and take a picture. I myself have allowed months of dust to form on my camera at times. Without reason to pick it up it will sit. Third, challenge, determination, will power, it takes courage, strength and will to pick up that camera every day for 30 consecutive days. Specially when it is ontop of the rest of your life. Try 366 consecutive self portraits, that is a challenge that will test your might.
Maybe some of the 'sides' as I said before should not be considered side challenges but image threads. Because there really is no challenge to them other then posting.
However, for me, I do believe when I host a challenge I comment on each image, more then good shot. Unless that is absolutely all I can say. But I cannot speak for everyone. But I can repeat myself... you get what you give.
To me, you seem to no understand that no everyone here is an expert, or I should say that perhaps a group of users get together, none of which are experts or professionals or even know what the hell they are doing. Simple lighting basics becomes a challenge. So this group learns together in a side challenge, what works what doesn't.
Or, they do it for fun, to break the monotony of life, of regularity. Try my 30 Forking Days challenge. See how long you last and see what you get from it. Try a challenge. You say you did and you got nothing out of it. Question is, was it a challenge or was it just an image thread? Did you ask for stronger more filled out critiques or did you just let it go? How much help are you asking for? What are you asking for? What do you want? |
Actually I do realize not everyone is an expert...I'm not an expert. That is exactly what I like about this site is that those who are great can help others learn. Why have an Overlay side challenge (again not meant to call out certain challenges) without teaching those of us who don't know how to do Overlays so that we can enter and learn? You are only focusing on those who know how to do it. Shouldn't it also be helping those who don't know how?
In your fork challenge, do you give any information on good ways to light metals? How lighting of forks can be difficult?
I think this actually got away from the original reason I said that side challenges should go....For those who complain that there are too many challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I would say cut (or cut down on) for those who complain that there is not enough participation in challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I say they should cut (and one open challenge...give me more of a reason to keep renewing then just having two advanced editing challenges).
As it is...I'm happy with the site as it is...with the exception of bringing back DPL. I'm not saying side challenges bother me. I don't always agree with the point of theem |
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12/19/2009 01:17:07 PM · #167 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by littlegett:
I agree and disagree.... yet again....
You know there is room for everything. I am still waiting for your reply to my previous post.
I agree, 'Workshop' type threads are fantastic. If people have time for them and willingness to do them I will never say no to them.
However, a 'CHALLENGE' is also in desire.
Since you seem to be confused let me explain my feelings on a 'side' challenge vs a DPC challenge.
DPC challenge is a weekly challenge. One/Twice/Three times a week now DPC posts a challenge topic. You submit, the community votes and your image is rated by the community of voters.
Side Challenge is a monthly challenge. (number of topics may vary here because of user creation) However, a Side Challenge will run for a full month. Averaging 30 days of photos. Self Portraits, Self portraits with a theme, Forks, Black/White, Whatever. Now there are several reasons to enter a side challenge. 1 being there is no voting so there is no hurt feelings that your image did not do as well as you hoped it would. Second it forces the user to pick up the camera every day for those 30 days and take a picture. I myself have allowed months of dust to form on my camera at times. Without reason to pick it up it will sit. Third, challenge, determination, will power, it takes courage, strength and will to pick up that camera every day for 30 consecutive days. Specially when it is ontop of the rest of your life. Try 366 consecutive self portraits, that is a challenge that will test your might.
Maybe some of the 'sides' as I said before should not be considered side challenges but image threads. Because there really is no challenge to them other then posting.
However, for me, I do believe when I host a challenge I comment on each image, more then good shot. Unless that is absolutely all I can say. But I cannot speak for everyone. But I can repeat myself... you get what you give.
To me, you seem to no understand that no everyone here is an expert, or I should say that perhaps a group of users get together, none of which are experts or professionals or even know what the hell they are doing. Simple lighting basics becomes a challenge. So this group learns together in a side challenge, what works what doesn't.
Or, they do it for fun, to break the monotony of life, of regularity. Try my 30 Forking Days challenge. See how long you last and see what you get from it. Try a challenge. You say you did and you got nothing out of it. Question is, was it a challenge or was it just an image thread? Did you ask for stronger more filled out critiques or did you just let it go? How much help are you asking for? What are you asking for? What do you want? |
Actually I do realize not everyone is an expert...I'm not an expert. That is exactly what I like about this site is that those who are great can help others learn. Why have an Overlay side challenge (again not meant to call out certain challenges) without teaching those of us who don't know how to do Overlays so that we can enter and learn? You are only focusing on those who know how to do it. Shouldn't it also be helping those who don't know how?
In your fork challenge, do you give any information on good ways to light metals? How lighting of forks can be difficult?
I think this actually got away from the original reason I said that side challenges should go....For those who complain that there are too many challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I would say cut (or cut down on) for those who complain that there is not enough participation in challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I say they should cut (and one open challenge...give me more of a reason to keep renewing then just having two advanced editing challenges).
As it is...I'm happy with the site as it is...with the exception of bringing back DPL. I'm not saying side challenges bother me. I don't always agree with the point of theem |
Actually with the overlay challenge there were quite a few people teaching. A tutorial was posted to dpc for it as well. Quite a few people added textures to the texture gallery to further participation. And any questions asked are promptly answered. |
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12/19/2009 01:38:44 PM · #168 |
Originally posted by Simms:
... now the SC were selected early on (with some additions) due to their love and in some cases, knowledge of photography ... |
I think you are largely mistaken in making this assumption. |
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12/19/2009 01:47:59 PM · #169 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by littlegett:
snip |
Actually I do realize not everyone is an expert...I'm not an expert. That is exactly what I like about this site is that those who are great can help others learn. Why have an Overlay side challenge (again not meant to call out certain challenges) without teaching those of us who don't know how to do Overlays so that we can enter and learn? You are only focusing on those who know how to do it. Shouldn't it also be helping those who don't know how?
In your fork challenge, do you give any information on good ways to light metals? How lighting of forks can be difficult?
I think this actually got away from the original reason I said that side challenges should go....For those who complain that there are too many challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I would say cut (or cut down on) for those who complain that there is not enough participation in challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I say they should cut (and one open challenge...give me more of a reason to keep renewing then just having two advanced editing challenges).
As it is...I'm happy with the site as it is...with the exception of bringing back DPL. I'm not saying side challenges bother me. I don't always agree with the point of theem |
Yes, I gave my opinions and I told how I did things. Perhaps not in the thread but on individual images when I saw the need to state something or someone specifically asked.
One thing I have become vary wary over is the offer of free advice. I will not just give my opinion on an image unless the creator specifically asks for it. My opinion can seem mean, hurtful, harsh and very critical. However I always offer my suggestions on how to improve. My opinion to the image in question. I will not just critique an image because it is posted because too many people (I have experienced) take it way to personal and flame wars start because of it. If someone says 'be harsh but nice' for a critique, I will not offer my opinion. Perhaps in my perspective I have nothing nice to say.
There have been many many times I have offered helpful suggestions for particular images, and subjects. Though you may not have heard me. Its a big website.
One thing I think as very humorous though is the idea that you believe the site can cut-out side challenges. You do understand the site has nothing to do with them right? You do understand it is the users who not only create but participate in these side challenges right? To presume the site can 'cut' them out is in my opinion ignorant. Even if the site took off the forum-thread users would post the side challenges in other topics, like they did before the forum was created. Or they would go elsewhere. The site, if it wants to stay active has very little control over the side-challenges. Sure, ban them, lose user-base, forum participation and close. Is this extremest thinking? no, I believe it to be from a realist point of view.
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12/19/2009 02:49:13 PM · #170 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by george917:
It's a simple comparison - people that work somewhere don't have to do what the visitors do. Casino employees don't have to play the slots, cops at the beach don't have to like the beach, people that work on golf courses don't have to play golf... The SC doesn't have to set an example for what members should DO on the site, but they should set an example for how members should conduct themselves. So let's stop telling the SC to act more like the "best" members, just to conduct themselves properly. And they have done nothing but that in this thread; I think we could all show a bit more respect. |
But dont you see - security guards at a casino are there as a job - they applied for the job and for whatever reason they got it, although they would of been just as happy being a secuirty guard at a different place..people who work at Golf Clubs, they may not be interested in golf, but they wanted the job as it helps pay the bills.. now the SC were selected early on (with some additions) due to their love and in some cases, knowledge of photography - thats what made them seek out this site in the first place - they didnt trawl the internet looking for any site that would have them - they wanted to join a photography site becuase they enjoyed taking photos...
can you see it yet? |
No, I can't. You think you're right, so you think I'm not seeing it. I think I'm right, so I think you're not seeing it. Imagine being the owner of a music store. What will your hiring process be? Post an ad in the paper and wait for replies, or put an ad up in your store so you only get customers applying. You don't have to like the type of customer they are, but if they deal with other customers well and are passionate about music, that's enough. Here, the passion for photography is shown by being a somewhat active registered user and being considered by  Langdon a passionate photographer; being the right type of "employee" (volunteer here) is also to be judged by Langdon. So don't tell me they have to be super active members with tens of thousands of votes or hundreds of entries to qualify. Langdon has to like the way they conduct themselves and consider them passionate enough. The only passion of theirs that should concern us is their passion for the site - how do they help it grow, how do they help it (and us) mature?
In response to your last question, they wanted to join the site because they enjoyed taking photos, and they wanted to become SC members in order to help the site grow and keep the conduct on the site appropriate. Those are two different things. Why do you have such a problem with them not being "exemplary" members?
Message edited by author 2009-12-19 14:55:19. |
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12/19/2009 04:06:12 PM · #171 |
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
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12/19/2009 04:09:24 PM · #172 |
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. I know, because both times I volunteered, and both times I did not make the cut :-)
R. |
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12/19/2009 04:19:03 PM · #173 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. I know, because both times I volunteered, and both times I did not make the cut :-)
R. |
 "Correctamundo!" |
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12/19/2009 04:32:07 PM · #174 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. I know, because both times I volunteered, and both times I did not make the cut :-)
R. |
I cant think of anyone more qualified :D |
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12/19/2009 05:21:53 PM · #175 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. |
That is a somewhat more recent innovation -- I just got an email from Langdon. |
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