DPChallenge - Past, Present & Future..

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/17/2009 04:46:21 PM · #53

Originally posted by kandykarml:

The idea that challenges repeat themselves boggles me and has me looking each week to see if I want to enter, only to say, nahhhh, I did that one already.. Or, geez, your kidding me, THIS is the challenge !!! Why ??? Is it really this hard to come up with NEW challenge ideas each week... I've never done it, so I'm asking that as a serious question.. Maybe it's harder then it sounds..

I made my first challenge suggestion and it was put up in less than a week...but it also generated a thread questioning the actual term used (Rural Decay). So, I think challenge suggestions probably stagnate when we as users just wait to see what comes next. In fact, there are way to many people on the site that operate that way.

Why wait to make a change, be the change...Ask not what DPC can do for you, but what can you do for DPC! What does this site mean to you and how can you help make it better? If you are just here to get a virtual ribbon you're missing what I think the original intention was...

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/17/2009 04:52:01 PM · #54

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by scalvert:
Langdon is always eager to hear new ideas. I remember when I first started here, I suggested 4 or 5 challenge topics and they all ran within a few months.

I've seen many suggested with lots of feedback from others about how they would like to see it, yet we have Puzzle Macro III, Hate II,
and Love III.

Meanwhile three of the challenges on the front page are first-time topics. One of the most common "complaints" we hear is from people who didn't get to participate in a challenge the last time it ran, so that's one reason we get repeats (another is that certain topics are especially popular or challenging).

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/17/2009 04:52:54 PM · #55

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The concern is about the few SC members who have not entered a challenge in a few years (or uploaded photos) and have not posted in 6 months.

Just like the challenges, not every member is actively participating every week or month. Only 8-10 SC members are active at any given time, and they handle the daily administrative tasks (I think there used to be 6 or 8 total). Some SC might not participate at all for extended stretches, and it's not really a problem. More are added or retired if Langdon feels there's a need.

It seems to me perhaps there is a need. Validations are slow. DQs are glacial. Blah blah blah. I hear SC sometimes point out how much they have to do, so get some help!

SteveJ

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

12/17/2009 05:06:45 PM · #56

Yes, I agree? DPC has changed during the past 5 or so years, so have I. I am older and more grumpy. Things change and I agree with

Simms about certain things he said, but that was three pages back and I can't remember what they were exactly:)

I see SC still have their body armour to hand and unlike some people have learnt to duck:)

There are lots of challenges, more than in the dark ages, and being a worker and living in a reasonably affluent area...but not being that affluent...certain challenges don't work.

But that's life, I just go with the flow.

Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux M Aspherical MF - Black

12/17/2009 05:24:09 PM · #57

Originally posted by kleski:

Why wait to make a change, be the change...Ask not what DPC can do for you, but what can you do for DPC! What does this site mean to you and how can you help make it better? If you are just here to get a virtual ribbon you're missing what I think the original intention was...

Well, #1, and this is just for me... I'm not here to take on a personal quest to fix anything anymore.. Quite frankly, I find posting in the forums usually only gets me into trouble with certain members of the community who look for reasons to argue, so the only thing I have left on this site is the challenges..

NOW, I also have a full time job, a part time job a 3yr old & a 20 month old a husband and house to take care of.. I don't want to work at this.. When I have to ask myself What do I do for DPC, as to what does DPC do for me, then quite frankly, I AM DEFINATELY NOT GETTING ANYTHING FROM THIS SITE.. I came here to learn and to ENJOY MYSELF.. Not fix anything.. I don't have the energy or the time to sit around contemplating new challenge topics.. If I had time to do that, then why would I bother with this site..? I could just write that down on a piece of paper, post it on my desk and work towards getting that great shot all week.. I'm here so DPC can come up with great challenge topics.. And, clearly, I'm not here for the virtual ribbon.. Otherwise I would have given up long ago..

And, I get it.. No one can please everyone 100% of the time.. Maybe this is just a down cycle between me & DPC.. Maybe I'll start finding it interesting again, WITHOUT me having to do any of the work.. Seriously, do you walk into the grocery store and walk around while buying items asking yourself what you can do to improve the store YOU PAY to shop at.. LOL... NO, you sure as heck don't.. If someones spilled milk all over the floor, you expect someone who works there to come along and clean it up.. Why is DPC any different then any other vendor we pay money too ???

scarbrd

Leica M10

12/17/2009 05:27:18 PM · #58

Originally posted by kandykarml:

Originally posted by kleski:

Why wait to make a change, be the change...Ask not what DPC can do for you, but what can you do for DPC! What does this site mean to you and how can you help make it better? If you are just here to get a virtual ribbon you're missing what I think the original intention was...

Well, #1, and this is just for me... I'm not here to take on a personal quest to fix anything anymore.. Quite frankly, I find posting in the forums usually only gets me into trouble with certain members of the community who look for reasons to argue, so the only thing I have left on this site is the challenges..

NOW, I also have a full time job, a part time job a 3yr old & a 20 month old a husband and house to take care of.. I don't want to work at this.. When I have to ask myself What do I do for DPC, as to what does DPC do for me, then quite frankly, I AM DEFINATELY NOT GETTING ANYTHING FROM THIS SITE.. I came here to learn and to ENJOY MYSELF.. Not fix anything.. I don't have the energy or the time to sit around contemplating new challenge topics.. If I had time to do that, then why would I bother with this site..? I could just write that down on a piece of paper, post it on my desk and work towards getting that great shot all week.. I'm here so DPC can come up with great challenge topics.. And, clearly, I'm not here for the virtual ribbon.. Otherwise I would have given up long ago..

And, I get it.. No one can please everyone 100% of the time.. Maybe this is just a down cycle between me & DPC.. Maybe I'll start finding it interesting again, WITHOUT me having to do any of the work.. Seriously, do you walk into the grocery store and walk around while buying items asking yourself what you can do to improve the store YOU PAY to shop at.. LOL... NO, you sure as heck don't.. If someones spilled milk all over the floor, you expect someone who works there to come along and clean it up.. Why is DPC any different then any other vendor we pay money too ???

I think your missing the spirit of the "what can you do for DPC" idea.

If more people participate, make some comments, vote, encourage others, etc. it will become a better place. No one is asking you to write code or anything.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/17/2009 05:28:58 PM · #59

Originally posted by MattO:

Kirbic, you hit the biggest thing that should be spurring changes or listening to the members. If 1/3 of my customers(members) or $25,000 left my business I'd be looking at myself wondering what the hell just hit me, what can I do to get it back, what should I do to get more to join? I realize Langdon is busy, he has a new wife and a kid on the way, if it's not here already. But dang man you also have a responsibility to the people who have been putting coin into your business all these years. At least I would hope he wouldn't be taking it for granted.

Matt

The hit in `business` would also be worrying especially if the hobby I base it around (photography) has increased hugely in the past 5 years with the huge numbers of digital cameras being purchased - yet the (paying) members here continue to drop. DPChallenge is the premier site for digital photography competition - in fact a quick check on google brings it up as the top hit when you type in "Digital Photograpy Competition" - that is something a lot of sites would pay huge $$$$ for. I think people look at what is available for their $25 and some just don`t see any value (they are not privvy to the wealth of knowledge that can be gained from the users here).. But show them a league, a way of improving, maybe someone who will teach them (mentor) and they may be happy to fork out $25, $30 or even $50 a year for that.. I pay subs on only two sites, this being one of them. Why do I pay? Like I said I do enjoy it and like a lot of the people here, but if I was to be 100% honest - maybe it`s habit as well.

So why are people leaving? I think its from a few of the things I pointed out in the OP.. and I still would like to see Langdon pop in here and say if there is any sort of Roadmap for 2010 and beyond or if he intends to let it plod along as it is.

Also, does Drew have much to do with the site - seems unfair to rag on Langdon on this.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

12/17/2009 05:42:35 PM · #60

Originally posted by scarbrd:

I can guarantee you, I'm not missing the spirit.. I really am not.. And, honestly, you feeling the need to point that out, I think is exactly why I refrain from the forums anymore.. I'm not an idiot.. And, I realize that no one is asking me to write or code anything... what a smart ass thing to say...
This is EXACTLY why I don't participate in the forums anymore.. You could have said everything you just said above WITHOUT being condescending, but you just can't help yourself.. so, again.. As I said before, the only thing I have left on this site is the challenges..
so, when they become interesting to me again, then I will participate in them.. That's all..

littlegett

Canon EOS-20D

12/17/2009 05:52:13 PM · #61

Originally posted by kandykarml:

I believe this is out of context. Most people have lives and/or families and things... I say most because im the exception I have no life, just finished school no job and one foot in the street. All I got is time. Yet, all of this is beyond the point.

It is not exactly about making change or being the reason to change or yadda yadda ya. What it comes down to is participation.

If you think there should be a different challenge topic, you do not need to 'fight' for it, or 'cause change' to make it happen. You participate and suggest a topic. If your favorite thing in the world is kittens and you have not seen a kitten challenge, post a request. it really is not all that difficult.

I have to agree with you on one point. If I choose to do something for pleasure, you better bet your assets I will not turn it into work or do something I do not want to do. I play a game online. It is a user interactive game and no it is not WoW. Anyway, there are different types of jobs/and or games, I only play the ones I like and could care less if the captain planks me for not following his order. It is a game not work.

In other words. If you want pleasure out of this site, only do what pleases you. Do not feel forced to participate with anything you are not happy with. However if you feel you have to voice your displeasure I only ask to also voice your fix. If you dislike the current challenge topics, offer up ones you do like. They may or may not show up, but at least you are being part of a solution and not part of the cause.

I used to be an evil little snot here at DPC. Worse then SS. Though you kinda learn things over time. Learn that it is up to the individual to find their own way. If they do not please you, you have the power to wear a smile all the same. If you want more interesting forum threads, create one. It is very simple to start new discussions.

Participation is key, and many seem to forget how important proactive, positive participation is. I said it once already and I will say it again. The users are in control of how well this site does. Through user interaction, participation and a strong family orientated community is how DPC has grown through the years. Yet some people have forgotten this and it has started to fall.

JulietNN

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

12/17/2009 05:56:47 PM · #62

Originally posted by kandykarml:

Originally posted by scarbrd:

I think your missing the spirit of the "what can you do for DPC" idea.

If more people participate, make some comments, vote, encourage others, etc. it will become a better place. No one is asking you to write code or anything.

I can guarantee you, I'm not missing the spirit.. I really am not.. And, honestly, you feeling the need to point that out, I think is exactly why I refrain from the forums anymore.. I'm not an idiot.. And, I realize that no one is asking me to write or code anything... what a smart ass thing to say...
This is EXACTLY why I don't participate in the forums anymore.. You could have said everything you just said above WITHOUT being condescending, but you just can't help yourself.. so, again.. As I said before, the only thing I have left on this site is the challenges..
so, when they become interesting to me again, then I will participate in them.. That's all..

I think you are over reacting

scarbrd

Leica M10

Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux M Aspherical MF - Black

12/17/2009 05:59:19 PM · #63

Originally posted by kandykarml:

And the grocery store - spilled milk thing wasn't just a little bit smart ass-y? Geez, congrats on being the first in the thread to start the name calling, when people are saying that's exactly what they don't like.

But, I apologize if I came off as condescending, that wasn't my intention.

12/17/2009 06:06:02 PM · #64

Originally posted by JulietNN:

Originally posted by kandykarml:

Originally posted by scarbrd:

I think your missing the spirit of the "what can you do for DPC" idea.

If more people participate, make some comments, vote, encourage others, etc. it will become a better place. No one is asking you to write code or anything.

I can guarantee you, I'm not missing the spirit.. I really am not.. And, honestly, you feeling the need to point that out, I think is exactly why I refrain from the forums anymore.. I'm not an idiot.. And, I realize that no one is asking me to write or code anything... what a smart ass thing to say...
This is EXACTLY why I don't participate in the forums anymore.. You could have said everything you just said above WITHOUT being condescending, but you just can't help yourself.. so, again.. As I said before, the only thing I have left on this site is the challenges..
so, when they become interesting to me again, then I will participate in them.. That's all..

I think you are over reacting

thanks

Olympus 12-45mm /f4.0 Pro

12/17/2009 06:07:09 PM · #65

Originally posted by scarbrd:

I apologize, I didn't realize I called you a name.. I was only referring to what you said and how I perceived it..

Message edited by author 2009-12-17 18:07:28.

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

12/17/2009 06:24:24 PM · #66

Langdon says that there's a big change in the works, that big things are coming. But after 5 years, we still have a message on the equipment pages saying that gear reviews are "coming soon." So I go elsewhere for that information. We still have a clumsy, outdated, and somewhat cluttered image browsing system; so I go elsewhere to look at other photog's work. We still have a print store that is a major PITA to post prints to, and order multiple prints from; so I go elsewhere for that service (and spend my money elsewhere, for what that's worth).

I keep seeing ways that DPC could improve itself - many of them ways in which DPC could also earn more income. (Better photog homepages, even add-on site hosting, improved DPC prints, equipment referral kickbacks, etc.) But it hasn't happened, even after multiple suggestions, requests, and outright begging. And I'm no longer sure that it ever will happen.

Frankly, I've thought several times lately that DPC has reached an evolutionary dead-end. That somebody should start a new site that takes the best aspects of DPC, coupled with it's untapped potential. I am willing to bet that if such a site came about, many members here would join it in addition to, or instead of, DPC. If I knew enough about coding, I'd do it myself - but I don't. (On the other hand, I've built three websites in the past year, and each time I learn more and more about how it works...)

I don't kid myself that I have a big voice here, or that many people even pay much attention to anything I say. I've been around enough lately to know that this whole rambling thought-to-writing will probably be attacked or ignored. But what the hell... I guess I still like this place enough that I'm willing to fight for it.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/17/2009 06:33:10 PM · #67

Originally posted by OdysseyF22:

This thread makes a lot of good/interesting points.

I'm coming up on my 5th full year here, and I'm one of those people who has noticed the same changes the OP mentioned. DPC has drifted away from photography, it has drifted away from participation in its own challenges, and it has drifted away from the tight community feel that it used to have. I'm not entirely sure why this has happened, but what I have noticed is that while the people here (and their attitudes) have changed, the site itself hasn't (at least, not much).

During the past month I've split my viewing time between DPC and Fredmiranda.com, a place I've lurked infrequently over the years. I've even started posting over there a little bit. FM has its own problems for sure. But it also has some things going for it that I find attractive. For starters, it has an interface that, while sometimes a bit confusing, has a clean, modern feel to it. DPC's interface still looks very 1990's. FM users post their photos large and bold - and they look damn good. We still post small here, having just finally won 800px max. FM seems to have a tighter community atmosphere, and I see a lot of supportive comments and positive reinforcement - and topics that are still decidedly about photography. DPC has drifted from all of those things. And at FM, people are paying $45/year just for the privileged of posting photos on the forums.

If DPC stepped up its game, modernized, made improvements, I'd gladly pay $50/year (maybe even a little more). I am not standing here saying FM is better, etc. I'm simply making a comparison between certain features, mostly I suppose to prove that they are out there, that someone is doing them. And to ask, why aren't we doing some of those things here? Why are we stagnating?

DPC needs an infusion of positive energy. It needs some leaders who are going to inspire and challenge members to perform, to try harder. This does NOT mean that the SC/Admins necessarily need to change; the "leaders" could simply be community leaders (like we used to have more of). I'm not saying I have all the answers, I'm just thinking out loud alongside other concerned parties.

Because that's what I am - concerned. Three and four years ago, I'd never have thought about leaving DPC. This past year, I had to stop and think if I really wanted to spend the $25. I could afford it, I just wasn't confident that I felt I'd get my money's worth out of another year of membership. I don't feel that I've learned as much these past couple of years, or that DPC has been the same driving force behind my photography as it was before. (And frankly, I miss that.)

I do know that I've lost confidence in the site's ability to grow and adapt. Langdon says that there's a big change in the works, that big things are coming. But after 5 years, we still have a message on the equipment pages saying that gear reviews are "coming soon." So I go elsewhere for that information. We still have a clumsy, outdated, and somewhat cluttered image browsing system; so I go elsewhere to look at other photog's work. We still have a print store that is a major PITA to post prints to, and order multiple prints from; so I go elsewhere for that service (and spend my money elsewhere, for what that's worth).

I keep seeing ways that DPC could improve itself - many of them ways in which DPC could also earn more income. (Better photog homepages, even add-on site hosting, improved DPC prints, equipment referral kickbacks, etc.) But it hasn't happened, even after multiple suggestions, requests, and outright begging. And I'm no longer sure that it ever will happen.

Frankly, I've thought several times lately that DPC has reached an evolutionary dead-end. That somebody should start a new site that takes the best aspects of DPC, coupled with it's untapped potential. I am willing to bet that if such a site came about, many members here would join it in addition to, or instead of, DPC. If I knew enough about coding, I'd do it myself - but I don't. (On the other hand, I've built three websites in the past year, and each time I learn more and more about how it works...)

I don't kid myself that I have a big voice here, or that many people even pay much attention to anything I say. I've been around enough lately to know that this whole rambling thought-to-writing will probably be attacked or ignored. But what the hell... I guess I still like this place enough that I'm willing to fight for it.

Great post.

JulietNN

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

12/17/2009 06:34:23 PM · #68

Nicely thought out Odyssey.

Here is a thought for Langdon and the community as a whole.

Why not start a Forum that is simply about what people want, no argueing, no "oh i dont want that" Just simply each person that posts simply list what they would like. No arguments, no cross talk, no discussions,no polls just simply putting down what they want.

Langdon can then go through and really get a feel as to what people want from here. Because come on, admit it, when one member turns around and says they want this, another will turn around and argue as to why they shouldn't. This way, he can look at it, toss teh idea around , talk about it, or throw the idea out. Simple

So simply put down,

A
B
C
D
etc etc

rider