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12/14/2009 09:09:41 AM · #1
Hey all,

Would like to try and get in with Alamy; however their size requirements puzzle me:

Uncompressed file sizes of more than 48MB, we recommend that you do not interpolate your files to more than 55MB. This means you should make your JPEG file from an 8 bit TIFF file that is at least 48MB. If you have a camera that is capable of producing an uncompressed 8 bit, TIFF file size of over 48MB then leave it that size.

Seeing that my RAW files are anywhere from 2.1 to 8.6 MB in size (depending on whether I am shooting with the D40 or the on-loan 20D), how on earth am I supposed to submit files anywhere near what they want?!
12/14/2009 09:13:13 AM · #2
Your JPG file (which is what they want) will be much smaller larger. When you open a file in photoshop it should show your file size (I should say when you open your final jpg file). That is the uncompressed file size.

Usually, most files that are 5000 to 5200 pixels on the long side will save at the minimum 48mb. Depends on how much detail is in the photo - but that's my rule of thumb.

edit - said that backwards. :-) My RAW files are around 18MB usually.

Message edited by author 2009-12-14 09:15:38.
12/14/2009 09:30:10 AM · #3
Actually, what happens is when you convert your file, it should be converted to TIFF. The TIFF file will be a certain size...mine are usually 22.8MB. Since TIFF is a lossless file type, you can resize the image by changing the DPI (making it larger) without losing quality. You should only do this with the TIFF files...JPEG's lose quality when you increase them and every time you save them. You can change the DPI until you get the 48MB uncompressed file then save it as a JPEG. The JPEG file will be about 4-8MB and those are the ones you upload.
12/14/2009 09:46:11 AM · #4
Thanks for the inf guys!

Ok, looking at my TIFF screen...my normal workflow is to open the RAW file, convert it to TIFF, open the TIFF in Photoshop, then do the usual pp, ending in save for web as a jpeg. Will have to go and look around a bit to find where the sizes etc are.

Normally when I save as TIFF, the depth is 16 bits and no compression.

So all I have to do at this stage is save it to 8 bits, no compression?

12/14/2009 10:16:25 AM · #5
Yep. Save it 8Bit....Not sure what the file size will be for the D40, but you may have to go in and change the size from 350DPI to about 500DPI. Then check at a 100% to make sure that its not blurring or losing detail in any parts.

Although recently I feel as if Alamy has gotten more strict on some of my photos, but that's how they tell you to do it and that's how I do it with the photos that have passed QC.
12/14/2009 11:37:40 AM · #6
Sorry kinda off topic, but is there a reason to save as .tiff instead of say .psd for normal editing? I haven't got into shooting RAW yet but what I do is open the .jpg and save as .psd. Is there a benefit to using tiff instead?
12/14/2009 01:12:25 PM · #7
Originally posted by bmatt17:

Sorry kinda off topic, but is there a reason to save as .tiff instead of say .psd for normal editing? I haven't got into shooting RAW yet but what I do is open the .jpg and save as .psd. Is there a benefit to using tiff instead?


From what precious little I know about this kind of thing, basically TIFF preserves the RAW image quality, but some is lost if you convert to PFD. I did use to save RAW-PFD but did switch to TIFF when someone pointed out the error of my ways :-) Hope this helps for when you make the jump to RAW - I only shoot RAW nowadays.

FWIW, RAW takes up more space cause it's a bigger and finer image than even large jpeg. But the image quality is much better. Try it and see. Some choose to shoot both RAW and jpeg.
12/14/2009 04:15:33 PM · #8
You can use either. Both are lossless. TIFF or .PSD. Pro Printing labs generally ask for .TIFF files. .PSD (Photoshop proprietary format) is great for work in progress, and if you have enough layers, you can easily end up with absolutely huge files. I save and archive everything (worth saving) in .TIFF. .JPG is NOT lossless, but small enough to be handy for the web, if you don't plan to ever edit the file again.

What PFD is, I have no idea. I know PDF (Portable Document Format), but you may just have meant to say .PSD?

Message edited by author 2009-12-14 16:17:21.
12/14/2009 06:59:29 PM · #9
Yeah, think I meant PDF...or PNG...or Photoshop...or the machine that goes 'PING! ;-)
12/14/2009 07:18:53 PM · #10
Originally posted by zeuszen:

You can use either. Both are lossless. TIFF or .PSD. Pro Printing labs generally ask for .TIFF files. .PSD (Photoshop proprietary format) is great for work in progress, and if you have enough layers, you can easily end up with absolutely huge files. I save and archive everything (worth saving) in .TIFF. .JPG is NOT lossless, but small enough to be handy for the web, if you don't plan to ever edit the file again.

Photoshop format supports layers, TIFF does not, so PSD is better for editing in that respect, since you can save various adjustments non-destructively. I convert to TIFF when I've finished other editing so that I can apply sharpening (or other "filters" to the composite ("flat") image.

My understanding is that with the CS Photoshop versions JPEG at the highest quality setting is also "lossless" compression.
12/15/2009 08:50:20 AM · #11
Actually, 8-Bit TIFF does support layers...16-Bit TIFF does not in photoshop. You can edit TIFF files as much as you want in Photoshop using layers and such.

To the guy saying that he converts JPEG files into PSD, I'd be careful of this. Because you are still working of an original JPEG file you may still be losing some quality even though you changed it to PSD. Raw files are meant to be edited which is why it can be converted to a lossless file. JPEG aren't meant to be heavily edited, so you are starting with a file that loses quality and trying to work with it in a lossless format...if you camera supports it, i'd try working with RAW.
12/15/2009 09:21:32 AM · #12
If you save at 17.5 Meg Pix @240dpi it will be the correct sized jpg. I upsized a few shots to 5100 * 3400 and they were the correct size they requested .... have to say I only uploaded a few as I couldn't be bothered! It shows in the bottom bar on photoshop how large the uncompressed file is

12/15/2009 09:54:44 AM · #13
Originally posted by albc28:

Actually, 8-Bit TIFF does support layers...16-Bit TIFF does not in photoshop. You can edit TIFF files as much as you want in Photoshop using layers and such.

I use Corel PSP X2 and layers are supported with 16-bit TIFF files. The only limit I've run into with 16-bit is the use of various plug-in's.
12/15/2009 10:50:43 AM · #14
I am using PS CS2, on an iMac running OS X, cause I'm a technopeasant. FWIW I rarely use layers; in fact I rarely do more than basic editing these days. Guess I need to start learning how to use them!

Did a little experiment yesterday and opened an NEF file (5.1MB) shot with the D40, converted it to TIFF at 8bits and it saved the file at 34.6MB. As the furniture salesman says, sofa, so good.

Did my editing steps, then began trying to upsize the pic (next time I will try the 5100x3400 and see what happens). Couldn't find where to change the dpi (it's in Canvas size, isn't it?) Then went to save for web and after much groaning and complaining my ancient iMac saved the file at 13.1MB.

So I imagine save for web doesn't help much...

12/15/2009 11:28:58 AM · #15
Originally posted by snaffles:

I am using PS CS2, on an iMac running OS X, cause I'm a technopeasant. FWIW I rarely use layers; in fact I rarely do more than basic editing these days. Guess I need to start learning how to use them!

Did a little experiment yesterday and opened an NEF file (5.1MB) shot with the D40, converted it to TIFF at 8bits and it saved the file at 34.6MB. As the furniture salesman says, sofa, so good.

Did my editing steps, then began trying to upsize the pic (next time I will try the 5100x3400 and see what happens). Couldn't find where to change the dpi (it's in Canvas size, isn't it?) Then went to save for web and after much groaning and complaining my ancient iMac saved the file at 13.1MB.

So I imagine save for web doesn't help much...


Yeah, don't do a "save for web though", just a "save as" and choose quality 12. should be much faster than save for web

In the bottom status bar it should say the uncompressed file size. Don't worry too much about the dpi, mine was 240 as that's what the raw files are.
12/15/2009 11:50:40 AM · #16
Don't do a save for web as you'll most likely end up with an sRGB file and Alamy want RGB. DPI is completely irrelevant at this stage, just get the size right ;)
12/15/2009 12:48:15 PM · #17
Thanks China, I figured that save for web probably wasn't the right way to go. Will have another go at it once I get home.
12/15/2009 01:07:41 PM · #18
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Your JPG file (which is what they want) will be much smaller larger. When you open a file in photoshop it should show your file size (I should say when you open your final jpg file). That is the uncompressed file size.

Usually, most files that are 5000 to 5200 pixels on the long side will save at the minimum 48mb. Depends on how much detail is in the photo - but that's my rule of thumb.

edit - said that backwards. :-) My RAW files are around 18MB usually.


To back up what Barry posted-- I export a .tiff file that is 5100 pixels on the long side. This results in an uncompressed file size of 49.6mb. Next, saving a level 10 jpg results in an Alamy acceptable file size. The jpg varies in size depending on the detail in the image. I'm only submitting photos in a 4x6 crop ratio so if you are using a different crop(square for example), the 5100 number would not necessarily be correct for you.

I think Alamy recommends bicubic smoother method of upsizing but I'm not sure. I've been using photoshop 7 until very recently and the bicubic setting worked fine.

To clarifiy one thing: I export the file from lightroom at 5100 so I don't use the Photoshop tool for upsizing as shown in the picture. I just wanted to illustrate where to find the uncompressed file size.
Don't bother using level 12 jpg compression, it will just slow down your upload time.

Message edited by author 2009-12-15 13:12:02.
12/15/2009 01:19:54 PM · #19
Originally posted by snaffles:

I am using PS CS2, on an iMac running OS X, cause I'm a technopeasant. FWIW I rarely use layers; in fact I rarely do more than basic editing these days. Guess I need to start learning how to use them!

Did a little experiment yesterday and opened an NEF file (5.1MB) shot with the D40, converted it to TIFF at 8bits and it saved the file at 34.6MB. As the furniture salesman says, sofa, so good.

Did my editing steps, then began trying to upsize the pic (next time I will try the 5100x3400 and see what happens). Couldn't find where to change the dpi (it's in Canvas size, isn't it?) Then went to save for web and after much groaning and complaining my ancient iMac saved the file at 13.1MB.

So I imagine save for web doesn't help much...


Sorry..in Photoshop it's under image size...change the Resolution...(or pixels per inch)
02/20/2010 01:24:30 PM · #20
*bump to refresh thread*

OK, now I have the D90, which I was glad to see is on Alamy's list of *approved* cameras. My uncompressed, straight RAW-TIFs are a lot bigger, ie 35.1 MB, which I thought would make things a lot easier with getting the shot to come in at 48 MB as a high-quality level jpg...right?

Uhmmm...nope! I did my usual Photoshop workflow, but did not do a lot of cropping, nor do I use layers, masks etc. I save it as a high-quality jpg and now it's a mere 2.4 MB...to my knowledge I did not compress anything.

*headdesk*

What am I not doing right?!

BTW my RAW dimensions are 4288x2848. And my pixels per inch are, I believe, 700.

If I do have to upsize, at what stage do I do so - once all the PS has been completed?

Message edited by author 2010-02-20 13:30:57.
02/20/2010 02:49:11 PM · #21
You dont need a 48MB JPEG file...it's the Uncompressed TIFF file that needs to be 48MB. So after you do all your editing, you have to upsize the TIFF file to make it 48MB. When you save it as a JPEG it's going to only be around 3 or 4MB, but it's the uncompressed size (when it was a TIFF) that Alamy cares about.
02/20/2010 03:00:57 PM · #22
Originally posted by albc28:

You dont need a 48MB JPEG file...it's the Uncompressed TIFF file that needs to be 48MB. So after you do all your editing, you have to upsize the TIFF file to make it 48MB. When you save it as a JPEG it's going to only be around 3 or 4MB, but it's the uncompressed size (when it was a TIFF) that Alamy cares about.


Ohhhh, I always thought it was the jpeg size you had to worry about!

So let me get this straight. I download my RAW files and convert at 8bits to an uncompressed TIFF. So now I have, in this case, a 35 MB file which I now open in PS and do my thing. Then I upsize it, I presume by following the steps already outlined in this thread, until it's 48MB in size. Then save as quality-level 10 jpeg. Think I got it now. Thanks albc28!
02/20/2010 03:20:41 PM · #23
Yep..thats it. No problem. Good luck. Make some money.
02/20/2010 03:25:38 PM · #24
Ok, thanks much! :-)
03/18/2010 04:03:13 PM · #25
Originally posted by snaffles:

Originally posted by albc28:

You dont need a 48MB JPEG file...it's the Uncompressed TIFF file that needs to be 48MB. So after you do all your editing, you have to upsize the TIFF file to make it 48MB. When you save it as a JPEG it's going to only be around 3 or 4MB, but it's the uncompressed size (when it was a TIFF) that Alamy cares about.


Ohhhh, I always thought it was the jpeg size you had to worry about!

So let me get this straight. I download my RAW files and convert at 8bits to an uncompressed TIFF. So now I have, in this case, a 35 MB file which I now open in PS and do my thing. Then I upsize it, I presume by following the steps already outlined in this thread, until it's 48MB in size. Then save as quality-level 10 jpeg. Think I got it now. Thanks albc28!

I'm just getting into this stuff now and wanted to point more detailed information so others may benefit of it.

You should upsize ONLY when converting from RAW to 8 bit TIFF. On my RAW softwares I can set the resulting tiff image to whatever dimensions I want, I just need to find which dimension will result in a +48MB TIFF file size.
Then you should open this 48MB TIFF file on you preferred editor (mine is Corel PSP X3, but many uses Adobe Photoshop), and then you can adjust/fix/correct the image.
When finished with the post processing, click File, Save as, anything.jpg. Remember that you must choose the highest JPG quality at this moment.
The resulting jpg file will be a lot smaller than 48MB. Its size will depend of variation of pixels inside of the image, but in general will have a size of 5MB or so.

Capiche?

Message edited by author 2010-03-18 16:04:00.
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