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12/06/2009 02:01:33 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by Niten:
Americans have no chance in an Italian court. They hate us there. The simple solution is to just not go there. Her mom and dad will be lucky to get out before they are jailed for something too. |
In all fairness, does anyone have an actual # of American's convicted or found not guilty in Italin court.. I tried to find a stat on this & can only find Amanda Knox and the 23 CIA operatives convicted... I find it hard to believe an American has never committed a crime in Italy or been accused of committing a crime in Italy, so there must be more cases then just these 2... I'm curious as to how accurate the "Amercians have no chance in an Italina Court" statement is... I'm not agreeing with it, it's just sparked my curiosity.. |
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12/06/2009 02:49:49 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by Niten:
...snip... If I can't make a statement about a countries (sic) general conscience without it being bigoted then I'm pretty much done. ...snip... |
You're pretty much done. |
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12/06/2009 04:18:21 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Niten:
Well you must discount everything I say because I misspelled a word(actually a typo). |
You also keep saying her parents have been arrested for "deflamation" (presumably they've been unlawfully extinguishing fires). If that's a typo too, it's an awfully consistent one... :) |
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12/06/2009 11:39:31 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by Niten:
Americans have no chance in an Italian court.- My oppinion derived from personal experience using this case as an example. |
Americans have every opportunity for a fair trial in Italian courts. My opinion is derived from the fact that my brother-in-law was the top U.S. Justice Department official in Italy for several years (this was during the time an Italian intelligence agent was killed at an American checkpoint in Iraq). I toured Italy for several weeks with my family shortly after that incident, and we saw nothing but friendly hospitality. |
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12/07/2009 09:42:01 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Niten:
Americans have no chance in an Italian court.- My oppinion derived from personal experience using this case as an example. |
Americans have every opportunity for a fair trial in Italian courts. My opinion is derived from the fact that my brother-in-law was the top U.S. Justice Department official in Italy for several years (this was during the time an Italian intelligence agent was killed at an American checkpoint in Iraq). I toured Italy for several weeks with my family shortly after that incident, and we saw nothing but friendly hospitality. |
How dare you bring sense to an internet discussion... |
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12/07/2009 10:17:11 AM · #56 |
I haven't been to Italy in 20 years. When there, I stayed with an Italian friend in Rome and met many of his friends and family. I also spent time in Naples with new friends who welcomed me into their home. I speak almost no Italian (I felt like an idiot saying "grazie" over and over again). However, I also encountered anti-American sentiment, some of it directed at me because I am an American. I suppose it's the same as in any country. Some people will see the individual, and some will only see the label.
PS: I don't suppose we'll ever know the truth about the murder.
Message edited by author 2009-12-07 10:21:15. |
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12/07/2009 10:38:59 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by citymars:
PS: I don't suppose we'll ever know the truth about the murder. |
I'm with you on this... NO ONE will ever know what happened.. The only person who knows is the one or ones who did it and Meredith.. This IS one of those cases where there ISN'T any concrete proof except for the first guy they convicted.. His DNA and HIS fingerprint were found on her body.. The rest is all theory based on conclusions made by educated guesses.. AND for the record, the type of evidence used to convict her is used every single day in courts in the United States and people are convicted every single day with out a SHRED of physical evidence against them here... Can Amercians who convict Americans in AMERICA be called anti-American.. LOL.. No !!! and if you don't believe me, I show you one case..
United States V. Cynthia Sommer
The most horrifying case of misjustice in my opinion ever recorded in the history of this state... Luckily, it was overturned.. AND a perfect case of people making mistakes and REFUSING to admit it.. AND a case of a prosecutor making up a story to fit what little circumstantial evidence they had.. I mean, a prosecutor can actually just decide what they THINK happened and present that to a jury and then if the jury believes that, then a person can die or spend the rest of their life in jail for it.. Pretty scary stuff..
Message edited by author 2009-12-07 10:40:09. |
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12/07/2009 10:47:39 AM · #58 |
Just a heads up, people who haven't been overseas during/since the GWB presidency....there was/is a clear and well defined anti-american sentiment in a lot of European countries as a result of the Iraq/Afghanistan war. I remember a 16 year old girl in Ireland that I walked past on the street turning around and telling me to "GET OUT OF HER COUNTRY"
Now if that sentiment is enough to put someone in prison for life, well thats questionable, but the sentiment definitely exists. |
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12/07/2009 11:01:49 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Now if that sentiment is enough to put someone in prison for life, well thats questionable, but the sentiment definitely exists. |
No-one is denying that that sentiment exists. Like i said, it also exists in the UK and that country is as culpable for recent war efforts. I also encountered it whilst living in Egypt recently. I think the electing of Obama has gone some way to help heal this. What myself and others objected to in this thread was a lazy accusation against a nation that was more knee-jerk sensationalism than a reasoned view. |
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12/07/2009 11:21:39 AM · #60 |
I wonder if this case would have ever come to trial in America... or whether there would have been some plea bargaining. Convincing the innocent to take a smaller fall to avoid the risk of a bigger one? Now there's justice... :o/
Allowing the guilty to get a smaller sentence by bargaining? Hmmm. Not much better. At least the lawyers get rich.
Discuss. |
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12/07/2009 11:25:35 AM · #61 |
| Since the Iraq War, I've been to Italy (twice), Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, and Egypt. While I would certainly understand a resentment toward Americans, I didn't see any. |
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12/07/2009 11:41:12 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by FrankRobinson:
Allowing the guilty to get a smaller sentence by bargaining? Hmmm. Not much better. At least the lawyers get rich.
Discuss. |
Not as rich as they get if the case goes to trial...
R. |
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12/07/2009 11:48:59 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Since the Iraq War, I've been to Italy (twice), Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, and Egypt. While I would certainly understand a resentment toward Americans, I didn't see any. |
You got lucky then I guess. Hell 1 week in Ireland and I heard it on 3 out of 4 coasts. Apparently the election of Obama has made things much better, but from what I hear from talking to some Euro friends, people still aren't all about Team America, World Police. |
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12/07/2009 01:22:25 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Since the Iraq War, I've been to Italy (twice), Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, and Egypt. While I would certainly understand a resentment toward Americans, I didn't see any. |
Same here, I’ve done a fair amount of travel since 2001 without anti-American sentiment ever rearing its head. I’ve talked to locals who definitely had opinions about our government, especially W, but had no problems with us as a people. |
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12/07/2009 02:39:08 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Since the Iraq War, I've been to Italy (twice), Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, and Egypt. While I would certainly understand a resentment toward Americans, I didn't see any. |
Same here, I’ve done a fair amount of travel since 2001 without anti-American sentiment ever rearing its head. I’ve talked to locals who definitely had opinions about our government, especially W, but had no problems with us as a people. |
Me three. Since 2001, I've traveled and worked in France, Germany and Italy on numerous occasions, including a 5 week project in Italy during the fuss over the CIA's "Extraordinary Renditions" and I have experienced nothing but goodwill from nearly everyone I encountered. (Some few people were assholes, but they were assholes to the natives as well.) |
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12/07/2009 02:50:37 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Me three. Since 2001, I've traveled and worked in France, Germany and Italy on numerous occasions, including a 5 week project in Italy during the fuss over the CIA's "Extraordinary Renditions" and I have experienced nothing but goodwill from nearly everyone I encountered. (Some few people were assholes, but they were assholes to the natives as well.) |
Like i said somewhere up thread, i think most people can make the distinction between opposition to american foreign policy and americans themselves. Also, when living in Egypt, it was only after i got to know someone, maybe after visiting their home and sharing a meal, that they'd be willing to really approach political subjects and then they would often get very passionate and angry. Egypt is not the safest place to get too political about certain subjects in the open. But even then, most Egyptians showed a great liking for Americans, it was the foreign policy they were most angry about. Also, bear in mind that i was living there last christmas time during the Israeli attacks on Gaza and there was tremendous anger that U.S and Europe were not stepping in. |
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12/07/2009 03:01:27 PM · #67 |
mah...
i'm very disappointed, as italian, of many bad words i've read here...
how easy it is to generalize instead of trying to understand...
i do not know if she is guilty or not, but if the evidences led to her, i have to believe the judges, partly because it is certainly not a process related to any attack on Americans, it is simply a case, horrible, of murder, nothing political...
italians are not only mafia, spaghetti, mandolino like americans are not only cheeseburger, racism or other bad things...
my partecipation here is in doubt now, but some of you will be happy, less italians better world...
do not replicate here, MP or e-mail (i have nothing to hide) foto_gb@yahoo.it
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12/07/2009 03:28:56 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by GiorgioBaruffi:
mah...
i'm very disappointed, as italian, of many bad words i've read here...
how easy it is to generalize instead of trying to understand...
i do not know if she is guilty or not, but if the evidences led to her, i have to believe the judges, partly because it is certainly not a process related to any attack on Americans, it is simply a case, horrible, of murder, nothing political...
italians are not only mafia, spaghetti, mandolino like americans are not only cheeseburger, racism or other bad things...
my partecipation here is in doubt now, but some of you will be happy, less italians better world...
do not replicate here, MP or e-mail (i have nothing to hide) foto_gb@yahoo.it |
Don't let one persons opinion sour the place for you Giorgio. There really was only one poster who displayed any xenophobia and bigotry against Italians. |
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12/07/2009 03:29:14 PM · #69 |
| For better or for worse, I don't think isolation is the way, Giorgio. I don't think you do either. Stick around? |
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12/07/2009 03:33:59 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Just a heads up, people who haven't been overseas during/since the GWB presidency....there was/is a clear and well defined anti-american sentiment in a lot of European countries as a result of the Iraq/Afghanistan war. I remember a 16 year old girl in Ireland that I walked past on the street turning around and telling me to "GET OUT OF HER COUNTRY"
Now if that sentiment is enough to put someone in prison for life, well thats questionable, but the sentiment definitely exists. |
Maybe she thought you were English?
:-P |
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12/07/2009 04:00:57 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by rob_smith:
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Just a heads up, people who haven't been overseas during/since the GWB presidency....there was/is a clear and well defined anti-american sentiment in a lot of European countries as a result of the Iraq/Afghanistan war. I remember a 16 year old girl in Ireland that I walked past on the street turning around and telling me to "GET OUT OF HER COUNTRY"
Now if that sentiment is enough to put someone in prison for life, well thats questionable, but the sentiment definitely exists. |
Maybe she thought you were English?
:-P |
Haha, with how tan I got, it would be italian (half itai, half mick) |
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12/07/2009 04:12:57 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Don't let one persons opinion sour the place for you Giorgio. There really was only one poster who displayed any xenophobia and bigotry against Italians. |
Once again, I have no hate or intolerance of Italians. I made a coment about how I believe Amanda was railroaded partially for being American. And thats bigotry. As far as xenophobia, I must have alot of phobias then, I fear sticking my hand in fire, walking out in heavy traffic, I dont like to run around with lightning rods during a storm. |
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12/07/2009 04:15:39 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Niten:
I made a coment about how I believe Amanda was railroaded partially for being American. |
The convicted co-defendent was Italian. |
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12/07/2009 04:26:09 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Niten:
I made a coment about how I believe Amanda was railroaded partially for being American. |
The convicted co-defendent was Italian. |
Yeah, but I think he only got a 25 year sentence, not 26 like she did ... |
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12/07/2009 04:35:55 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by Niten:
As far as xenophobia, I must have alot of phobias then, I fear sticking my hand in fire, walking out in heavy traffic, I dont like to run around with lightning rods during a storm. |
Ah, i see what the problem is. You're confusing an irrational fear that Italians hate you with the rational fear that fire will burn you. |
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