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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Neutral Density Filter
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11/29/2009 03:16:27 PM · #1
I am researching ND filters. I'm pretty sure I want/need a graduated filter. Basically to help with blown skies.
Do the graduated work ok with auto focus?

I'm also not sure if I should get .6 or .9. And, which brand is best? I've read the Lee brand would avoid vignetting. Any other things to take into consideration?

I shoot with both 5D MKII & 20D. Lenses are 24-70 f2.8 & 70-200 f2.8.

Any help or comments are greatly appreciated - thanks!
11/29/2009 03:31:19 PM · #2
When I was in the market for an ND filter my research led me to get a regular .6 B+W ND filter for stuff like waterfalls and use my polarizer for cutting out blown skies.
11/29/2009 03:41:34 PM · #3
If you already know the size filter you need that is great but if you don't the fastest way to find out is look on the back of the lens cap. I'm not 100% sure if the Canon has it there but I know that Nikon does.

If your searching for ND filters for skies then a graduated is the best way to go. Yes they work fine with auto focus. Generally the more they cost the better they are constructed. If you get a metal on make sure that you don't screw it all the way down on your lens because the thread on your lens is plastic and it could destroy the threads. If you get a cheap one there isn't anything wrong with it but if you drop your camera (on the lens) it's a good chance that the filter won't help with the impact like a metal one would.

For someone starting out I would get a few different filters to experiment with and then when you find a color depth you like then get a better one.
11/29/2009 03:44:07 PM · #4
I just ordered a Cokin Z-Pro Graduated Neutral Density Filter Kit from B&H Photo. It comes with the holder, and three filters, .3, .6 &.9. In addition to the kit, I had to order adapter rings for the two lenses I use for landscapes most of the time. The kit is about $165, and the adapter rings are ~$30 each. This seems like a pretty good deal, so hope the Cokin filters turn out to work okay. They are glass filters, which is a plus.

I would think that you shouldn't have any problems with auto focus, but maybe someone else who has experience with them could provide a better answer.

I forgot to mention that these are rectangular filters, so you can slide them up or down in the holder for best results. I think they give you a little more control than the circular filters.

Message edited by author 2009-11-29 15:46:27.
11/29/2009 05:45:42 PM · #5
Originally posted by AutumnCat:

I am researching ND filters. I'm pretty sure I want/need a graduated filter. Basically to help with blown skies.
Do the graduated work ok with auto focus?

I'm also not sure if I should get .6 or .9. And, which brand is best? I've read the Lee brand would avoid vignetting. Any other things to take into consideration?

I shoot with both 5D MKII & 20D. Lenses are 24-70 f2.8 & 70-200 f2.8.

Any help or comments are greatly appreciated - thanks!


A GND filter should work fine with autofocus on your lenses unless you stack them and there ends up being too little light.

As for a .6 or .9 it is a matter of how many stops difference there is between the sky and the landmass. The more the difference the darker the filter needed. Normally a 2 stop (.6) GND will do the trick.

As for vignetting it is normally a matter of how wide your lens is and not the brand of filter. For wide angle lenses a 'thin" mount filter works the best to keep down vignetting.

As a side note having normal ND filters allows you to slow down the shutter speed for effect on bright days. Think those silky smooth waterfall pictures you see. So having both normal ND and GND filters is a more complete package.

Lastly, you get what you pay for. Cheap ND or GND filters will not give as good a result as the cheap ones. This is controversial and just my opinion.

Good luck in your search.


Message edited by author 2009-11-29 17:47:04.
11/30/2009 06:51:47 PM · #6
Thanks for all the suggestions.
It sounds like a GND filter of .6 would probably be sufficient. At least to start with.
Not sure of the brand yet - but, I don't think the Cokin system is what I'm looking for.
11/30/2009 07:04:50 PM · #7
For graduated filters you want to avoid the screw in type as they limit the gradation line to the middle.

As for Cokin, they work just fine. If you get the pro series then you should have any problem with vignetting on a super wide angle lens.

If you get the P series then vignetting will occur at around 14mm or wider with the regular holder. With the special wide angle holder you shouldn't, however will be limited in the number of filters you can use at one time.

Lee filters have a system similar to Cokin. Check them out if you're concerned about the quality of the Cokin ones.
11/30/2009 09:29:49 PM · #8
Does anyone have opinions on this Tiffen?
Tiffen 77mm Digital HT Grad ND 0.6 Titanium Filter
It's about $145 on Amazon.

I was reading info from Ken Rockwell that seemed informative - but, am unsure if he is reputable and not just trying to make some money from his site.

It seems (as with everything) that there are two sides - those who like the screw on and those who prefer the square type.

Message edited by author 2009-11-30 21:40:21.
11/30/2009 09:36:39 PM · #9
I just bought the Cokin system & used it for the first time this past weekend. It was very easy to use & I liked not having to screw on and off the filter. It was very easy to move around as the horizon line changed as I moved my composition. I was very pleased with the results.

I also purchased a polarizer and was told that was best for water shots and shooting through glass. Haven't tried that one out yet. Since it's not graduated, I didn't try it with my sky shots because then half of my shot would have been too dark.
11/30/2009 09:40:44 PM · #10
Originally posted by AutumnCat:

Does anyone have opinions on this Tiffen?

Yes. I wouldn't want it.

Add me to the anti-screw-on chorus.
Most well composed photos don't have the horizon line right in the center, and that horizon line is where you usually want the GND filter to change from dark to clear.

With the screw on, you have no choice.
11/30/2009 10:00:31 PM · #11
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

If you already know the size filter you need that is great but if you don't the fastest way to find out is look on the back of the lens cap. I'm not 100% sure if the Canon has it there but I know that Nikon does.


Canon lenses have the filter thread size listed on the front of the lens itself.
11/30/2009 10:20:39 PM · #12
I'm in the non-screw on camp for a GND filter. I use the rectangular type and normally just handhold it in front of the lens. If you get a large one (6") it is no problem. I used to have the Cokin system but gave up on it some time ago. All my other filters are screw on type.

Message edited by author 2009-11-30 22:21:07.
11/30/2009 10:39:51 PM · #13
Same here. I think for normal neutral density shots and filters the screw in type are fine. I use my Hoya HMC filters, but GND it's best to go with the non screw in type.
12/01/2009 12:07:53 AM · #14
Originally posted by Tammster:

I also purchased a polarizer and was told that was best for water shots and shooting through glass. Haven't tried that one out yet. Since it's not graduated, I didn't try it with my sky shots because then half of my shot would have been too dark.


That's not true at all. That's not how a polarizer works. It cuts down, or even eliminates, scattered light, is what it does; and there's a LOT of that in the sky, since the light's refracting around all sorts of stuff up there, so skies, in general, get darker when you polarize. The effect is most noticeable when shooting at right angles to the sun, and least noticeable shooting directly into the sun.

It also cuts out most, if not all, of the light reflected from water surfaces and, sometimes (bit not always) glass, so you can see beneath the surface or through the pane. This is why fisherman wear polarized sunglasses :-)

Finally, because the polarizer is cutting out most reflected/scattered light rays, it tends to increase color saturation throughout the image, especially on foliage.

Very good stuff :-)

R.
12/01/2009 12:30:11 AM · #15
If you shoot at 24mm minimum on your 5dmk2, you shouldn't have any problem with vignetting(assuming a screw on filter, polarizer or otherwise). I use a normal(not thin) polarizer on my 17-40 and only get noticble vignetting from about 17-20. Add me to the chorus of anti screw on filters (grad ND in particular). A screw on polarizer is fine.

And--I'd recommend .9 instead of .6 if for both your grad ND and ND, assuming you are looking at both. I often find that a .9 GradND barely is enough to balance the bright sky with foreground. And for a normal ND filter, it is easier to open up your aperture to get a faster shutter speed than it is to close it down because you can't get one long enough. So go with .9(3 stop if I recall). :)
12/01/2009 01:42:52 AM · #16
Not sure if anybody mentioned this yet but you have an additional choice with GND filters (ie smooth and hard stop). The latter is better suited for flat horizions like the ocean.
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